Carnivore diet took me from 75-80% to 99% recovery in two weeks..... and then back down to 75-80% in week four

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#17

I am beginning to hope that the majority of PFS symptoms might be addressed just by reducing inflammation a lot. Findings/Dx from a MR Neurography study of the pelvis in a PFS patient

It’s going to be so hard for me to do, but I have to try at least keto if not carnivore. Aside from waiting another 20 years for enough people to get fed up with PFS enough to get serious about making research happen, keto or carnivore does seem like the only thing there really is to try.

It’s going to be so hard for me because ai basically have 3 full time jobs and have no idea how I’ll be able to both spend more time eating and more time cooking, but this seems like it’s clearly the most potentially effective not to mention safest thing there is to try. Thanks so much to Ozeph for all he has shared on here about his experience.

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#18

I’m on a carnivore / ketogenic diet for a while. My main problem is insomnia as you have mentioned in your threads many times.
How did you manage to achieve a deep sleep during night? Which herbs are you using as a sleep aid? I wake several times at night and tend to pee more often than usual. Sometimes I’m considering to do some carbbackloading with potatoes or white rice but I haven’t done it so far.

Did you followed the carnivore diet very strict for 1.5 years? Or did you enjoyed a cheat meal from time to time? (Especially for social events)

When I do a prolonged fast for 24 to 48 hours I can sleep like a baby afterwards and wake up more or less refreshed.

Btw, sorry for my english, it’s not my first language

#19

I eat no carbs during the day, only meat and fat, but I’ve been experimenting recently with eating a potato with butter (no protein) at bedtime and at least 4 hours after having had proteins. Deep sleep has remarkably improved.

The problem is if I get up to pee during the night, the night is over. So in the past I was avoiding liquids after 6 pm, but now with the potato I more often need to pee because of the water in it adding to the water to wash down the pills.

I take Valerian extract 800mg, Hops extract 800 mg, Lemon Balm extract 400 mg and passion flower extract 400 mg on one night, and on the other night I replace 400 mg Valerian and 400 mg Hops with 60 mg Silexan (lavender oil) along with the other herbs. Being quite insomniac, I also take hydroxyzine 12.5 mg (anti-histamine) and Clonazepam 3.25 mg on top of that.

It’d be quite a knock out for any one, but for me it just gets me 5-6 hours of uninterrupted sleep and the rest of the night turning and tossing around. I’m rested and have good energy during the day.

This being my last symptom I believe it has to do with Cortisol and Nor-Adrenalin. The potato brings my insulin up and lowers the Cortisol. I believe that’s why I get better sleep. I’ll try with rolled oat (a slow carbs, low glycemic) to see if it can last me longer before I begin to toss around.

#20

I can’t believe I’ll be writing this, but there exist a super low fat, low protein, very high carbs diet that seems to yield similar results to the carnivore / ketogenic diet, at least in terms of diabetes, strokes and heart attacks as well as weight loss (no idea if it helps with pfs or other epigenetic diseases like some cancers). It’s completely plant based.

The diet consists of large amounts of white rice, fruits, fruit juice and white refined sugar. No added fat except from the traces of fat in the above mentioned elements (less than 5 gr) of the diet and very few protein (25 gr.), the rest is 565 gr of carbs.

I’ve been eating almost exclusively meat and animal fat for a year and half and I think I would die if I tried this sugar diet. Nonetheless, the lady in the video below claims it might be helpful for those who don’t get good results from carnivore or ketogenic diet. It’s the other end of the spectrum !

I don’t know what to make of this, but at least it shows the studies and the reason why fat has been having a bad reputation. It looks like it’s the combination of fat and carbs that makes people sick. We need proteins, but it seems going high fat no carbs, or high carbs no fat are two viable solutions. Juice fasts makes more sense to me now (not that I’m going to try it anytime soon !)

Anyway, here’s the video:

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#21

where have you read that ketosis is demethylating? from what ive read its a DNA modulator. i care about this because i am an undermethylator so i may be taking methyl donors and actually be causing harm

https://oxfordmedicine.com/view/10.1093/med/9780190497996.001.0001/med-9780190497996-chapter-23

#22

I have read it, and I know one person that declares himself cured taking BHB as demethylators.

#23

Are you referring to moonchild or is there someone else as well?

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#24

I’m going to be trying bhb and butyrate alongside a keto diet at the new year. It I’ll be impossible to start the diet right now during the holidays but I’ll
Begin January 1. Already received both supplements. Will post updates here

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#25

I wish you luck, i suggest full strict carnivore diet instead of Keto. The plants and veggies can still cause inflammation in your body. It is not a hard thing to do, you will adapt fast. But don’t cheat and stay strong. I really wonder your results. Hope everything goes as planned. Remember we are the most damaged yet strongest persons on earth with PFS.

@Belikewater (Yeah is it Moonchild or someone else?)

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#26

If you go carnivore that I currently at forget BHB, BHB suplements comes with a lot of diferent presentations, use carnivore as a plain base you will not have any problems with digestions at all. But you will have an adaption phase, that will include adapt your body to fat energy instead of carbohydrates and also forget the addiction to sugars. What I recommend is beed or lamb as organic as possible also you can add bone broth and eggs. Chesse is allowed but I dont recommend, also pork and chicken I also dont recommend. Take in account that you must take fat now as energy, so any meat that doesnt have a good a mount of fat is worhtless. The first month is going to be difficulty while you learn etc… but at the end of 3 monh you will be flying at cruising speed. Check information on internet there is a lot.

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#27

How long you been into keto/carnivore? Any positive results?

#28

I have been 3 months, lots of benefits, my brain seem more calm and very stable right now.

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#29

@belikewater how is the diet going buddy. Closer to recovery?

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#30

Is it still working for you?

#31

I posted this elsewhere, makes you wonder what bacteria is truly beneficial as bifido has mostly been considered a “probiotic”

New research shows the keto diet, used to treat neurological and metabolic diseases, suppresses bifidobacteria and Th17 cells


Could the keto diet’s therapeutic benefits be linked to changes in the gut microbiota? New work in mice and 17 men who are overweight or obese reveals ketone bodies exert suppression of bifidobacteria and intestinal pro-inflammatory Th17 cells.

Also looking at the similar paleo diet,

Gut microbiome of the Hadza hunter-gatherers

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms4654
data from our GM comparative analysis indicate a characteristic configuration for the Hadza gut microbial ecosystem that is profoundly depleted in Bifidobacterium

SCFA profile of Hadza and Italians

End products of bacterial fermentation are important for microbiota–host co-metabolism and evolution. SCFAs are the dominant metabolites resulting from bacterial fermentation of plant-derived substrates such as glycans and polysaccharides that pass undigested through the small intestine and into the colon. The SCFAs acetate, butyrate and propionate are pivotal in several host physiological aspects such as nutrient acquisition, immune function, cell signalling, proliferation control and pathogen protection25

The absence of Bifidobacterium and the lower relative abundance of Blautia , Ruminococcus and Faecalibacterium concurrent with greater relative abundance of Prevotella seen in the Hadza GM match a presence/absence scenario with SCFA concentrations that are enriched in propionate and reduced in butyrate with respect to Italians.

The absence of Actinobacteria, particularly Bifidobacterium , in the Hadza GM is unexpected. Bifidobacteria are associated with breastfeeding in infants and achieve large proportions of the GM in the first few months after birth37. Typically, in adults, bifidobacteria commonly make up 1–10% of the GM population. Complete absence of bifidobacteria, as observed in the Hadza, has never to our knowledge been reported for any other human group.

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#32

More than 3 years on the keto / carnivore diet now. Hedonia is gone, I’m happy again, burning eyes and dry lips are gone (maybe a little dry lips left). Insomnia is still there but I didn’t increase meds and herbs and sleep has improved.

Sex life is normal. I’m a satisfied customer…

#33

I’ve also been on the keto diet for the past few years. No other treatment has come close to solving all PFS symptoms as keto has.

However, over those years, I’ve had windows where I went back to eating carbs. The symptoms come back immediately.

For that reason, I don’t believe ketosis can actually cure us, no matter how long you spend on the diet.

Also, the improvement seems to be correlated for me with the number of ketones I have in my blood. The higher the ketone level, the better I feel.

The closest I get to being normal is when I do OMAD with keto. I feel that it’s not the OMAD itself, but the caloric restriction (resulting from not eating 2 meals) seems to play a major role in this.

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#34

Thank you for sharing ! It’s greatly appreciated !

I tend to agree, but more tests needs to be done especially regarding the time spent on it… I’ve always said that the ketogenic diet was making symptoms go away, but did not cure me. As I understand it, it’s the ideal platform to do the things which do repair the epigenome: the tricks to repair the epigenome (you can search it, I posted links everywhere)

Some of those tricks are One Meal A Day (OMAD), fasting and caloric restriction (I’m not restraining my calories, I take my 2000 in one meal). Being in ketosis makes all those easy.

Another trick is exercise while glycogen depleted. That can be achieved after at least 3 days of fasting, or any days at least 6 hours after your last meal if you’re ketogenic. Easy.

From what I read, BHB and NAD+ helps the sirtuin proteins in repairing the epigenome. On a ketogenic diet we get lots of BHB and we burn up to 5 times less NAD+ than on a carbs diet, leaving extras to work on the epigenome.

However well prepared the ketogenic diet makes us, it won’t fix the epigenome, IMHO, unless we do the tricks that produces the sirtuin proteins responsible for fixing this damage.

I’ve been on a ketogenic diet for 3 years and I never tried to go back to eating carbs. But I had cheat days where I stuff myself with as much pizza my stomach can fit and I have yet to understand why my ketones level go up when I do so (I know, it’s supposed to be impossible. yet the blood tests confirms). Maybe I’m very insulin sensitive and the carbs gets quickly turned into fat, Idk.
However, in the last 2 years, those carbs binges had no effects on my symptom (insomnia). I never did 2 days in a row.

I have what I consider proof of epigenetic damage repair. I had a bad sunburn 28 years ago and ended up with freckles all over my face ever since. Dermatologists told me there was nothing to be done to remove those. I later learned from Dr. Sinclair that those were epigenetic damage caused by UV. After 3 years on this diet and doing tricks, they are 90% gone. A dermatologist would be baffled. I have no proof epigenetic damage to my AR were repaired and considering I still have insomnia, I’d say if some repair was done, it’s not complete. No way of knowing. Although all sexual symptoms are gone…

So I concur, ketogenic diet probably does not heal us but it eases the symptoms. However, I believe it does give us the perfect platform to do the things that will help with healing.

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#35

Thanks for your answer @Ozeph .

Interesting about the whole NAD+ thing.

Whenever I’m eating carbohydrates, not on ketosis obviously, one thing that has made me feel a lot better is taking Niacin in large doses. Not the slow-release niacinamide one, but the fast release that makes you flush. There is even an interesting book called “NIacin the true story” or something like that, that states how Niacin has been used to treat a lot of things. I’m not an expert, but I believe Niacin raises NAD+. Maybe that’s the reason?

However, for some reason when I’m on keto, it’s very difficult to take Niacin and it doesn’t make me feel that better, kind of weird, considering that raising NAD+ should, in theory, make me feel a lot better. I’ve read somewhere that Niacin forces the release of glucose and temporarily shuts down lipolysis ( I may be wrong here, sorry for my ignorance). I think not having that much glucose stored in the liver in the first place is what makes you feel like shit when you take it on keto, lol.

What are your thoughts on MCT oil? A lot of research proposing that it has benefits in itself for cognition, even for people not on keto… Have you tried it?

Also, HMB and leucine seem to be 2 supplements that raise ketone levels. Have you tried any of those?

Exogeneous ketones (esters) seem to have not a great effect on me, although my readings obviously go up, the reality is that it shuts my liver production of ketones. So after taking it, I generally feel worse when the effects are gone.

Anyway, I don’t dislike a ketogenic diet, but especially from a social perspective, it’s really awful that I cannot just do normal things, maybe for the rest of my life…

#36

We get used to it. So much so, I can have pizza until I’m ready to explode and my blood ketone levels are much higher 2-3 hours later. I can’t explain. Maybe after 3 years my body sees carbs as a way to make fat to burn as ketones. Idk.

I haven’t tried the products you mentioned and I don’t know too much about NAD+, niacin etc… while NOT in ketosis. All my ideas of curing the epigenome are much better done in ketosis, one meal a day.
MCT oils are great, however, I find C8 and C10 to be hard on the stomach. I take C12 in palm oil. Palm oil is 55% C12. It digests well and puts me in ketosis fast. Plus it’s cheap, which is probably not an issue for you if you tried BHB esters…