boston332's story

Member Stories
#101

Its a fairly short list from what I remember.

Total T
e2
Vit D
SHBG
IFG 1
LH
FSH

and a few others

I think these labs ran me around $700. Jacobs labs ran me around $1600.

He sends you the lab order before you go see him. So, you’ll have that taken care of and an idea of how to procede treatment wise at the appointment. Do yourself a favor, take a second set of ears in with you. Shippen talks fast and if you’re already stressed with PFS symptoms, travel, etc. then you can miss some important things. Let us know how the appointment goes and what he recommends if you dont mind. The latest thing is Procaine and I think I’m the first of Shippens patients to try it. He seems to have gotten away from his thyroid experiments.

Shippen doesn’t believe 3 adiol G tells us much. Says its “nice to have but just a metabolite of DHT”. I believe almost every person in here was low, in range 3 adoil G. Maybe one or two were low out of range. And, he doesnt order “free” T. Only total T. He uses a chart with SHBG and Total T… you’ll see when you go. gl

#102

So, I’ve been taking the Procaine shots @ 1 cc daily per Shippen. Also still on the usual supps - vit d3, multi vite, vit E, triple ginseng, ZMA, DHT gel, DHEA and a couple of T boosters I rotate in and out.

Tomorrow will try 1 cc of Depo T as well as a vite b12 shot and vite D shot and see what happens.

#103

I’ll never understand why doctors don’t order a wide range of testing… You’d think shippen would want to run every test he possible could… sigh…

#104

I just talked to Shippens office. He wants me to up my dose of Procaine to 2 cc’s injected twice daily. If I still dont feel anything then I up it to 3 cc’s twice daily. According to Awor this won’t work but I hope he’s onto something here. By the way, Shippen wants nothing to do with IV Procaine treatments. So, if I wanted to try that I’m going to have to look elsewhere. I would probably wait and see how Awor is doing before I entered into that.

I’ve been trying to get ahold of Jacobs to see what he would suggest next but havn’t been able to reach him. I tried the Depo T shot 1 week ago and it did absolutely nothing for me.

Also, I’ve put on alot of weight. Shippen said this could be caused by my high IGF-1. Has anyone else had that experience?

#105

This is such a mystery, some guys say they put on weight when guys like me are thin getting thinner no matter how much i eat, there is so much variation in all our sides…

#106

This could be due to potential malpractice issues for him if it goes horribly wrong, it is a very experimental treatment.

Weight gain could be due to low testosterone, or more likely in your case lack of response to testosterone. I’m no Shippen but this seems more likely to me than high IGF-1. I’ve got this problem too.

#107

I’ve been giving myself b12/Procaine shots 6cc’s daily for a couple weeks now. This really has not had any effect on my symptoms (definately not sexually anyway) so I’m assuming I’ll stop doing those shots. The b12 might give me a little more energy. Have been supplementing with Lions Mane to up my NGF to see if that helps. Considering jacking myself up on super high levels of TRT as suggested by another of my doctors. I don’t think that is the answer. But, I guess if that does nothing I can cross that off the list.

Muscle wasting and fat gain definately still an issue with me. Eight months ago I had a barrell chest and normal looking waist. I used to lift weights constantly and had a 55" chest and a 36" waist. When I went to get fitted for a tux they said that was the biggest difference in chest to waist size they’d ever seen. Now I have a sunken chest and middle aged looking pot belly. Of course still bad ED, shrunken penis, no libido, and fatigue.

I have a phone consult with Shippen this Wednesday. Any ideas or anything I should volunteer to guinea pig for?

#108

Hey sorry to hear things aren’t great.

Lions mane may help slightly. See if you notice any difference on it compared to off it.

Have you tried doxycycline yet? It has helped me but not everyone responds to it. Try it for 4 weeks 100mg twice a day if you do decide to.

High TRT is an option but it comes with its consequences with which you are aware. If you do decide I would recommend not being on it for a prolonged period of time. Some people respond somewhat on it. Some people don’t. ScaredMD took Hdrol and then ran a PCT afterwards with some success but again its a throw of the dice. Can I ask do you have signs of androgens working? - hair loss, beard growth, pubic hair, acne etc…

As you’re probably aware I think the androgen receptor or signal is messed up so although testosterone can drive the pathways still working it may not necessarily reactivate the broken ones although there is a little evidence that it might. Dr Jacobs thyroid resistant patient for example.

Afraid until research is done we won’t have a better answer. I think progress is being made though so hang in there.

#109

Theres only v. high testosterone supplementaion left. But do this for long enough and it will leave you with hypogonadism, so you will have to take it forever. On the plus side you can rub as much andractim into your willy as you want without fear of feedback on the pituitary shutting you down.

Injectable Dihydrotestosterone or 3adiolG too. Doubt this can be sources though.

#110

Oscar - I’ve been going pretty heavy with the andractim gel. Thats probably been the best thing I’ve found so far. It hasnt done much for shrinkage but it helped the weird “dead pain” feeling I used to have from my penis all the time. And, tissue looks a litte healthier since I’ve been using it. I think Jacobs wants to dose me high short term on T and see what happens to my T and e2 levels. No, I do not want to be doing that long term either. My body is already a mess, I don’t need testicular atrophy to boot really. (Although I think I can get him to give me some HCG gel) Last dose of 1ml of DepoT might as well have been tap water. I felt nothing.

Its strange - I’ve asked both Shippen and Jacobs if you permenantly shut down native T production over time while on TRT and both said no. Jacobs said thats a common misconception. Unless I completely misunderstood both of them or posed the question incorrectly.

19- No evidence androgen sensitivity is increasing. I have lost no hair since I began taking Fin in Nov 2008 and none since I stopped in March 2010. I am one of the unfortunate ones who grew alot of hair while on Fin. I never got alot of acne and still do not save the odd pimple once in a great while. Beard growth is also normal and about the same as Pre-Fin. Have not tried doxycycline. Thanks, I’ll mention it to Shippen. I agree with your overall assessment 100%. This is likely an epigentic issue and we can only busy ourselves searching the medical literature until the proper lab research has been done. I’ve only been dosing with the Lions Mane a few days so I’ll need some more time to evaluate.

I think at this point I may need to ween off all supps for a few weeks and have another complete hormone profile lab and go from there.

On a positive note I had oral surgery today and just took some vicodin. I get a few hours vacation from the thoughts of PFS and maybe I can get half a nights sleep.

#111

Had a phone consult tonight with Dr. Shippen. He wants to try high dose TRT w/HCG losenges for a trial period and see what happens with my symptoms. Dr. Jacobs also advises this so I guess I will give it a try. Going to dose .5 ml twice weekly and the hcg losenges weekdays, then off weekends. He still wants me to continue with the Procaine shots. He is thinking that because Im injecting sub q the Procaine is being released slowly into the bloodstream so the half life isnt as much an issue. I’m just hoping TRT/hcg will put some muscle back on my body, give me some more energy and help with weight loss. If this helps me be a bit more productive in my work and personal life then thats great for now. Any improvement sexually would be icing on the cake.

#112

Can someone explain what the procaine shots are for or do. Thanks - Scared

#113

The Procaine shots are taking a page from the anti-aging school of med. The idea is that injecting a small amount of procaine sub q will release slowly into your bloodstream and have some demethyating effect.

#114

I’d say it would be worth the hassle. Look into the EOD T shots too. Alot of guys say it keeps their values and well being steadier.

#115

I think I might be developing a small bald spot. Which, of course I think would be somewhat good news. Before I get all excited about this I’m wondering if anyone has lost their hair after Fin and are still hypogonadal?

#116

There are ppl on here who are still balding at the same rate pre-fin. As for myself im only balding half as fast… probably bc my free t is half of what it should be.

#117

Ok, I thought maybe. Didnt wanna get my hopes up. And, I’m probably not balding at my pre-fin rate either anyway.

#118

Boston, we appreciate your updates from the PFS docs. There aren’t that many on the site, particularly from those with very bad sides and those seeing Shippen. I wonder where they all are.

As you know, higher dose testosterone is linked to androgen insensitivity and treating 5 ar2 defeciency. Wether it works in our case is open to question but it’s the last viable option. I wouldn’t rush to conclusions if you feel nothing immediately, give it some time as studies have been done over months and years to prove efficacy. I’m not suggesting you do that but perhaps give it a bit of time to work unless you fell bad side effects.

#119

I should get a vile of testosterone cypinate in the mail late this week or next week. There was a mix up in getting the script. So, I will be about 3 weeks after my consult before I can begin this new treatment. I think I could do a 6 month or so run but I don’t want to shut myself down forever if at all possible.

I will be starting -

Testosterone cypinate starting at .5 cc twice weekly injected sub q. Shippen thinks sub q might help it release more evenly. I will continue to increase the dose weekly and see how I feel.

l-dopa

hcg losenges - one at night M-F, I take Sat. and Sun. off.

Still on the Wellbutrin, deplin. Also taking progesterone, vit d3 50,000 iu’s every 3 days, vit e, multi vite, e control (natural e2 lowerer), also still injecting Procaine and b12.

#120

Started .5 cc testosterone shots week and a half ago. So, current protocol is as follows -

.5 cc testosterone cypionate Monday and Thursday morning injected sub q per Shippen.
200 mcg subligual hcg losenges M-F , off Sat and Sun for a month, off for a week, then recycle.
100 mcg l dopa daily
Wellbutrin xl daily
50,000 IU’s vit d every 3 days
Progesterone tab daily
e control (over the counter supp)
DHEA
deplin
multi vites
Procaine/b12 mix 3 cc’s injected sub q once daily

So far no changes in symptoms. Morning erections a bit better maybe. Penis still “shrunken” both in flacid and erect state so erections don’t really matter to me and are actually depressing due to the evident loss in size.

I took about .75 cc this morning instead of .5 cc. Might have been a mistake. Face feels flushed and warm.

Things that are getting worse -

Weight gain. I think the loss of muscle mass along with a slowing of my metabolism is really killing me. I’ve put on a ton of fat, particularly in the abdomin even though I have no appitite and don’t eat that much. Diet is pretty healthy with some cheating (ie hamburger) here and there. Pre Fin I could eat 3000-4000 calories a day and not put on fat. Now, 700-1000 calories and I bloat up. Dr. Shippen said something about high IGF-1 causing weight gain. Anyone w/high IFG-1 experience this?

Digestion. I dont seem to digest food like I did pre fin. If I eat anything non-organic or junk ever pretty much makes me sick for an entire day. Also, more acid refux.

Muscle waste. I think I’ve lost half my muscle mass since crashng 9 months ago. Used to have barrel chest. Now sunken chest with fat gut. I look disgusting and hate being in public.

Sleep. I never sleep an entire night through. I’m up at least twice sometimes three times. So, I’m in this perpetual tired/fatigued state. Lately weird dreams too. Sometimes I remember them sometimes not.

I’m hoping after a few weeks on the HcG and TRT I will see some increase in muscle and fat loss. Not really counting on any changes sexually. If so, they’d be icing on the cake. At this point I’d just like energy and some of my body shape back.

ps- Had a headache at the left side base of my head for three weeks. Sometimes the pain goes up above the ear to the temple. Its always the same spot. No idea whats causing this.