Body responds negatively to androgens

General Discussion
#39

Please do your own research before taking anything as to not jeopardize further worsening of your issues. That said, the following may help lower E2 and balance things out:

Tongkat Ali: I’ve taken 160mg/d from brand “Source Naturals” before. It’s among the few herbs out there with actual studies supporting it to raise T. It helps lower SHBG and E2, which increases free T and DHT.

Also green tea exract, cruciferous vegetables such as Broccoli, olive oil, Vitamins E and K2, and Zinc. Losing extra weight (and fat) also helps.
@PFS25

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#40

Thanks for your reply , i’m already on 500g broccoli per day and i’m doing another blood test to check if E2 level went down but i’m relucant to use zinc and other vitamins , i crashed on zinc 8 months into pfs ( extensive work out also played a part in this ) it’s an 5ar inhibitor and i don’t think it’s safe for pfs especially if you abuse on it , tongkat ali sounds promising though , i’d certainly give it a shot

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#41

Kudos for being careful @PFS25 I’ve used a lot of stuff and I’ve had my fair share of trial and fail. Definitely see if you can get hold of Tongkat Ali. If I were in your shoes, I’ll get another test for E2 using sensitive assay to check its current level before considering anything.

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#42

“I’ll get another test for E2 using sensitive assay to check its current level before considering anything.” if the level of sensitivity is high what does it means from a protocol perspective , how do you adapt to that ? @doomed80

#43

There’s the standard assay and then there’s the sensitive assay for E2. We only have the standard one where I live and it’s said that it overestimates the measured E2 value since it’s mainly targeted for women (E2 ~ 300+). The sensitive test provides a more accurate E2 value for men and thus helps in making better decisions. E2 is measured in pg/ml and optimal value for most men usually lies somewhere in the 22-30 range. I feel best around ~20 with T around 600. Thus T/E2 ratio of 30. You need to find that subtle sweet spot, you’ll know it when you hit it.
@PFS25

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#44

I think a combination of tribulus and proviron may turn out to be helpful , i don’t think that our issue is related to the level of androgens in the blood but more to how the body uses the androgens , that’s why even people with low t don’t get a lot of benefits from TRT and clomid

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#45

This is very controversial and is not set in stone. I prefer a very individualistic approach as long as PFS is concerned. I had my say about proviron on other threads and while I think it may prove helpful in selected cases, it’s far from a universal treatment. Speaking of which, you seem like a good candidate for low dose proviron if E2 turns out high and T low. SHBG should also be tested.

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#46

thanks for your advices , what’s your take on mediherb tribulus ? since it raises E2 , i thought that using proviron alongside trib will help to prevent E2 from escalating , many members have reported sympthoms of high E2 whilst on trib and the use of Al remains out of question

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#47

Frankly, I’m not sure what to think. I’ve taken tribulus (from different brands) in the past among several other T-boosting herbs so I couldn’t isolate its affects on E2 specifically. Generally, I thought it was helping my “libido” but my E2 was very low at the time.

I’ve read conflicting opinions on tribulus on other forums. You may have to trial with things at some point and see how you feel vs. what you see on bloodwork. That said, try to experiment with only one thing at a time to isolate its effect.

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#48

I saw one tribulus brand and it’s written 40% saponins. What does it mean?

#49

I can only really chime in with some thoughts. However I have found that lifting weights essentially worsens the condition. I.e. boosting androgen levels through working out with weights. It triggers a short depression, which then takes about 24hrs to resolve. It happens like clockwork - lift the weights, and the depression starts. So, I do not lift, bro. Only some bodyweight stuff to keep myself ticking over. Cardio does not trigger the same response. Cardio seems to specifically improve my health if sustained habitually. It is good for boosting energy levels and general feeling of wellbeing.

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#50

Hi @doomed80 just need a bit of help , what do you think of this brand from world abs ? some people recommended it on this forum but they don’t seem to have a lot of products , something’s strange about their web site

https://worldabs.com/products/tongkat-ali-extract

#51

It’s hard to say @PFS25 They claim each pill contains 400mg Tongkat Ali (standardized 200:1), which is theoretically a high dose. 180mg/d worked great in my case and higher doses gave me breakouts. There’re many bogus Tongkat Ali (AKA LJ100) products out there and I’ve tried several brands. The one that worked for me was from Source Naturals. It’s a bit expensive though.

This is an informative video:

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#52

Thanks for your answer doomed80 , can you check my post here and answer some of my questions (especially re tribulus ) ? i need your help , thanks again Need your advices

#53

I am the same. One testosterone injection, and my symptoms got worse. Wouldn’t call it a crash, but I am definitely more anhedonic, way less energy, body numbness increased. I took Lexapro and crashed later on paracetamol. How are you?

#54

Have you recovered to baseline since you had the injection? Also, what were your T and SHBG levels prior to taking the shot?

#55

I haven’t checked. In my country the I need to go through the public healthcare in order to check and it takes ages. And they usually only give u t levels.

I wonder regarding fapping. If increasing androgens by using testosterone made me worse, how come that fapping doesn’t make me better?

I am making this vague link but I have no idea really. I’ll be glad if someone can chime in and shed some light

#56

I don’t believe there’s any evidence that fapping has much of an impact on androgen levels.

Have you returned to how you were before since stopping T?

#57

I injected 4 days ago. Now I am feeling more close to baseline, which is good. But I’m still wondering what happened.

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#58

you didn’t crash from taking Lexapro? 3 days of Lexapro completely fucked me up.