Beware of Doctors claiming Medical Breakthroughs - Dr. Georgiadis - Greece

Dear All,

I am truly saddened to bring you this disappointing but important news. In the following posts, I will present evidence that casts doubts on Dr. Georgiadis’ intentions. To be honest, as a PFS victim my bias was in favor of Dr. Georgiadis. Like many of you, I anxiously anticipated the feedback from our fellow board members who have already left in pursuit of a cure for our problems. I remained quiet but inquisitive on the matter, waiting for more concrete evidence to make a judgement on the validity of Dr. Georgiadis’ proposed solution. Unfortunately, I have found evidence that proves his behavior is at best highly unqualified. It is obviously important to remain critical and I hope you will DISCUSS and not ARGUE about these findings in this thread. I personally feel that what I have found delegitimizes his claims. I don’t want this thread to turn into an I-TOLD-YOU-SO thread because honestly each man that went to Greece risked his own time, finances, and state of hope to benefit not only themselves but provide valuable information to the rest of us. As an exception, SolonJK has some SERIOUS explaining to do regarding his recent erratic behavior and why he literally said that Georgiadis’ had the potential to be a god for us. After being questioned on his behavior, he has refused to provide an explanation for why he chose to delete all of his past post history when it would provide useful information to the rest of us. At the very least, his premature worship of Dr. Georgiadis unnecessarily inflated the hopes of those in the PFS community and I would not be surprised if he is involved in more questionable activities. Additionally, I sent the claims to several of the credible PFS doctors and perhaps the most relevant and respected docto declared off-the-bat that our problems are not the result of an inflammatory issue. Lastly, another respected doctor I have been seeing told me that the TRUS technology is not very useful in detecting infections but it is more helpful in detecting things like prostate cancer and cysts. This fact would prevent one from even speculating on such a matter by email, but Dr. Georgiadis has offered up-front diagnoses.

Explanation of the Evidence - As I was a bit skeptical, I felt it would be a good idea to create a pseudo email address and send Dr. G an email with an edited version of my backstory with a picture of a completely healthy prostate that I found online. The result of our interaction will be displayed in the next post. The picture I used was from the following website which displays an undeniably healthy prostate.

ultrasound-images.com/prostate.htm#Imaging_of_the_normal_seminal_vesicles,_and_vas_deferens

After he responded with a dubious explanation, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and felt it would be appropriate to investigate further. I rationalized - perhaps he couldn’t see the picture clearly and was basing the experience off his work with PFS patients. I decided to follow up with an additional pseudo email account. This time I chose a scenario where the problems were unambiguously NOT related to the prostate. For the second email, I created a scenario where I was recently put on SSRIs and had mild sexual side effects which are very common to SSRI use (about 30-50% of SSRI users get them). Again, the pictures I presented were from the following link and are very clearly an example of a healthy prostate. Minimally, the obvious thing he should have suggested was to stop the drug for a few days or switch to a different medication, but he immediately jumped to the conclusion that I had chronic prostatitis which required an entire month of treatment and told me to fly out to Greece for his care.

ispub.com/journal/the_internet_journal_of_radiology/volume_6_number_2_16/article/comparative_study_of_prostatic_volume_and_uroflowmetry_in_benign_prostatic_hyperplasia_patients_with_lower_urinary_tract_symptoms.html

In conclusion, I believe these emails demonstrate that Georgiadis dispensed dishonest medical advice since he has literally diagnosed everyone (including healthy prostates) with chronic prostatitis. Please do not engage in infighting as in the last thread and I truly hope that Solonjk will give an explanation of his questionable behavior soon.

This is the initial email where I posed as a PFS patient with the scans of a healthy prostate found on the internet.

Finasteride Related Problems
2

Hide Details
FROM:
Jeremy Stern
TO:
pavlos.geo@gmail.com

Message flagged Friday, July 8, 2011 12:23 AM
This message contains blocked images.
Show Images
Options
Message body
Dear Dr. Georgiadis,

I learned about you from the website Propecia Help, which I imagine you are familiar with by now, and I would like to ask that you take a quick look at my transrectal ultrasound photos. I fully respect and appreciate you are quite busy so I will be very concise with my medical history.

I am a 24 year old male living in the United States and I developed severe erectile difficulties and loss of sensation in my penis after taking finasteride for 7 months. I quit taking the drug more than one year ago. I developed some mood swings and anxiety after stopping the drug but this stopped after a few months.

I have sought treatment from an endocrinologist who found I had borderline low DHT levels, but everything else was normal. I was placed on testosterone replacement gel but this did not help. I have recently sought out the help of a urologist who performed a transrectal ultrasound to view my urinary tract and found that my system was completely normal. According to him it was not inflamed and appeared to be completely healthy. My urologist believes that my problems may be related to nerve dysfunction and I am scheduled to see a neurologist to look into sensory testing as well, but this is not yet complete.

Since I know that you are of the opinion that urology has drastic room for improvement, will you please look at a copy of my ultrasounds and let me know if you agree or disagree that it is completely healthy? My doctor believes my problems may be related to neuropathy since my ultrasounds look good to him. If you feel there is a good chance that I have bacterial prostatitis, I will certainly consider flying to Greece to seek treatment since I don’t see any alternatives currently in the United States.

Thank you so much for your help.

Sincerely,

Jeremy Stern

Re: Finasteride Related Problems

Hide Details
FROM:
Paul Georgiadis

TO:
Jeremy Stern
Message flagged Friday, July 8, 2011 7:15 PM
Message body
Dear Mr Stern,

While the quality of the pictures does not let me give you a definite answer, I can certainly see indications
of chronic prostatitis. Experience has shown that this is the likely case, since all my Propecia patients so far
are actually suffering from chronic prostatitis.

Regarding urology, unfortunately it is still in very archaic levels when it comes to both properly diagnosing
prostatitis and even more in curing it. After 20 years of experience on curing this disease and after having treated
patients from various medical histories and backgrounds (on average they had visited 5+ urologists, each with mixed
opinions on the matter), I can honestly not trust another urologist’s diagnosis, as the majority of them have very little
knowledge and experience on this disease.

I would suggest you to visit me on Kos island of Greece this summer to have a proper diagnosis and if indeed
you suffer from chronic prostatitis, stay for about four weeks with daily treatments to be cured from it.

Think about it and let me know of your decision.

Yours sincerely,
Pavlos Georgiadis

This is the second email in which I pressed a bit further and created a hypothetical scenario in which I developed very common and mild side effects from SSRIs.

from Robert Fellows robertfellows76@gmail.com
to pavlos.geo@gmail.com
date Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 10:22 AM
subject Question from the UK
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details Jul 10 (2 days ago)
Dear Dr. Georgiadis,

I am writing you this message from the UK. I am a 35 year old male who has recently been having general problems in my genital region. About 3 1/2 months ago, I originally started taking Zoloft (Sertraline) for issues related to mild depression and anxiety. Around one month after starting the medication I began to experience a less sensitive penis and my libido dropped as well. My doctor arranged for me to have a prostate ultrasound conducted and I have attached the best quality photos I could manage for you to see.

It will be several months before I am able to see a specialist at the National Health Service to get an interpretation of my prostate ultrasound. I am not very fond of the UK health system and have always preferred to consult with doctors who come highly recommended to me. By looking at the image I have attached, are you able to find any indications that I may need some kind of treatment? If so, I would very much consider pursuing treatment outside of the UK. Thank you very much in advance for any response you may provide.

Cheers,

Robert Fellows

from	Paul Georgiadis [pavlos.geo@gmail.com](mailto:pavlos.geo@gmail.com)

to Robert Fellows robertfellows76@gmail.com
date Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 6:41 AM
subject Re: Question from the UK
mailed-by gmail.com
signed-by gmail.com
hide details 6:41 AM (12 hours ago)
Dear Mr Fellows,

From the pictures you sent me, it is easy to see that the prostate is heterogenous. This is a very good indication that you
suffer from chronic prostatitis, in which case I am the doctor who can cure it.

The therapy for it takes about 4 weeks with daily treatments (ideal course), or 3 weeks with double treatments during
the third week (but this poses the risk of running out of time, if you need some more therapies).
The total cost either of them is the same and is about 3000 Euro. There is an extra cost of max 500 Euro, for the necessary medications, which you will independently buy off the local pharmacies.

I have reserved spots for international patients for this summer, therefore I can accept you for diagnosis and beginning of treatment
starting from July 15th up to mid August on Kos island of Greece and you should plan to stay for 3 to 4 weeks.

Think about it and let me know of what you decide.

Yours sincerely,
Pavlos Georgiadis

This is NOT evidence that the Dr is a fraud!

He even said in his email that you posted for all to see (is that even legal?) that he cannot see the image properly and the only way he can properly diagnose you is if you go to Greece to see him.

How could he possibly diagnose you unless you go and see him?

Also you are baiting him in both emails by saying you have PFS in the first one and then saying that your doctor sent you for a prostate ultrasound in the second one. This immediately makes the doctor suspect you have prostatits and that it’s probably in your best interest to go and see him!

He is also not trying to sell you with some kind of fear mongering either, he’s asking you to think about it, and then let him know.

Dr. Georgiadis did not say that he cannot see the image properly but he did hedge and say it was blurry and he couldn’t offer a definite answer. However, he said he “certainly saw indications of chronic prostatitis”. Because I felt it was slightly leading, but not significantly, I sent the second email which is far less debatable. I told him I had an ultrasound completed but it had not yet been interpreted. I presented him with an image and a blank slate to analyze and draw his own conclusions. He concluded, by looking at a scan of a healthy prostate, that there was “a very good indication” that I suffer from CP.

He has already openly stated to others that his version of a healthy prostate scan and that of other urologists differ a lot… Maybe he CAN see prostatitis in there, it’s a very common thing. Only the amount you suffer will decide whether you need to see a doctor about it or not.

Excellent post and yet more good reason for us to all move on from this nonsense and all firmly behind Mew and Awor’s research initiative.

I was too bored to even read this…
so i am too bored to even reply

do as you wish no-one obliges you to go to any doctor here
just find a good urologist to get you a transrectal ultrasound

as for your famous endocrinologists that you have contacted and they demised the prostate playing part in our problem… well

i can bring solid doubts about each and every ones expertise of the above mentioned, as i have seen and contacted even better doctors than those you are mentioning. Probably the best around, and you can not doubt people like Ian Hughes from Cambridge University, Chrousos from Bethesda Research center nor doctors from MD Anderson that seen prostatitis issues in post finasteride patients. And all of the above declare that finasteride doesn’t affect the AR sensitivity at all. Endocrinologists who are specialized in hormonal sensitivity syndromes, or even have discovered them.

plus you suddenly seemed very interested about dr. Georgiadis, in your 24 or something posts.

My erratic behavior stems from the fact that i had decided to leave the forum for good, there was no point in staying since i reached to the end of my queries.

The only real evidence that we can have is what the other PFS guys that went or are going over there might have to say.

The pictures I used were taken from people who were completely healthy and had no symptoms to report of course. They were used as a control to contrast against scans that were abnormal for good reason. While there may be a difference of opinion in the severity of a problem in an individual, there should be no difference of opinion in looking at a COMPLETELY normal prostate.

Take a very simplified analogy. One may look at the skin on somebody’s arm and easily tell it is completely healthy. If there is a rash on the arm there might be a difference of opinion in the rash’s prognosis, the severity, and maybe a disagreement about the cause of the rash. It would be absurd to tell somebody a completely healthy arm would be infected.

If I am not mistaken, you have already booked a trip out to Greece. If that is the case, I truly hope you have good luck but feel you should be prepared for disappointment.

A 24 yr old guy + severe ED + loss of sensation in penis after taking finasteride…

Sounds like PFS to me!

The doctor tells you that in his experience, such patients actually have prostatitis.

That’s his belief. Doctors are entitled to their beliefs.

I dont intend to see this doc, but I don’t begrudge others who will.

The first line does not make sense with respect to the second email I sent him. Your point is valid and is why the second email was warranted. There was no tangible ‘experience’ for him to reference when diagnosing the SSRI patient with chronic prostatitis.

People are entitled their beliefs, but I become curious when a doctor “believes” a healthy prostate is chronically inflamed. As a simple fact, it is not.

My intent was not to begrudge those who choose to see him. Honestly, my intention is to prevent others from risking their time and finances on a leap of faith. As I initially mentioned, the initial members who flew to Greece contributed to the general good by exploring an alternative treatment. That fact is commendable in itself.

i cannot understand this anger against georgiadis
before call him trickster, wait other’s report

i don’t know if he is able to cure chronic prostatitis, but i bet
that prostate has a major role in pfs
(maybe not for all people)

when someone cured by him speaks bad, maybe we can judge georgiadis

Racism

Look at the topic title

Beware of Greeks bearing medical breakthroughs

Poor Hippocrates and Asklipios

you came too early, if Frustrated was around 2000 B.C. you wouldn’t exist coz he would have discovered all before you

By the way, read this guy’s profile
its also interesting that he is from this poor little country

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._Roy_Vagelos

Pindaros Roy Vagelos, better known as P. Roy Vagelos or Roy Vagelos (born 1929 in Westfield, New Jersey), was president and chief executive officer (1985) and chairman (1986) of the multinational pharmaceutical company Merck. He attracted research scientists who developed many major new drugs. In addition to his business accomplishments, Vagelos is the author of more than 100 scientific papers.

[edit]
Biography

Roy Vagelos grew up during the Depression as a son of Greek immigrants.

You know where his parents are from?
The island of Kos and the island of Nissyros next to it.

Roy Vagelos was the CEO of Merck during the time finasteride was developed but I don’t know why you are mentioning him. Why do you know where his parents are from? Why is it relevant that the island of Kos breeds people like Merck executives and Dr. Georgiadis?

pfff
just to lineout the fact that you are also some misdemeanoured kid that doesn’t have anything else to do than play around with people’s problems and write racist comments about our medical personnel.

offcourse you suffer from mania, post finasteride, i forgot
so you are excused, you can go ahead call our doctors frauds and the treatments we underwent useless and fraudulent

TRUS technology!!! ??? What technology man ??? What do you think its a nuclear weapon or something?? Its an ultrasound test.

But the most intriguing scientifically self-proven discovery of Frustrated Inc. is the fact that this highly respected doctor that he sees told him that TRUS is not useful in detecting infections!!!

WHo the Flying Fuck told you that it could detect infections??? Jesus im getting demented here with all the unbelievable crap i keep reading!!!

U N B E L I E V A B L E

if dr. Gs approach is considered criminal according to you, and i have to explain for my questionable behavior…

your literal existence here and your thesis regarding him and the rest of the whole topic which you probably haven’t understood to the slightest bit is considered what???

Gee now i start to understand why boston decided to leave the forums when he kept on pursuading us to check our prostates, check our prostates, check our prostates. We kept on thinking we was mad, but guess what, he was right from the start… too bad for him… and for us back then…

Why don’t you explain why he would tell me that two healthy prostates have chronic prostatitis based on a transrectal ultrasound image? And on top of that, tell me the treatment requires 1+ month of my time and thousands of dollars. All of this is based on the image of two healthy prostates.

My prostate looked healthy for many many years in all ultrasounds around famous hospitals.
Karolinska, Spain, University Hospitals here and there, Private labs.

This doctor told me its not so healthy.
Guess what
All the rest of docs failed to improve me or even treat me a bit
He improved me a looot
What the fuck

Who cares
Am i feeling better?
Yes.
Are you feeling better?
No.
So keep on playing around.

You are completely absurd. You are suggesting we go to Greece for a month to pay thousands of dollars because a single person (you) has reported an unverified treatment regimen that partially worked. All the while, this man is offering false diagnoses on the internet which basically eliminates his credibility. Everyone, except for the most blindly faithful, should be concerned that he is diagnosing EVERYONE with the same condition even when there are circumstances where he is undeniably wrong.