Balls, Balls, Balls - questions/please read

Symptoms Sexual
#1

Ok - to the folks that have shrinking testicles or shrinking sack ( myself included) I have a few questions/observations:

  1. My E2 was way elevated although T results were OK (not great but OK). I have ben on Tamoxifen for the past 5 weeks -honestly I have not noticed changes except for a followup question below but I am hoping this has my E under control. Will my balls ever come back or must I move to HCG? Has anyone tried the HCG drops or is something totally different? I think Bostonusa2009 has been playing around with the drops.

  2. What causes the scrotum to shrink ridulously - i.e. so tight my freaking balls are almost inside me (and sometimes are). Most websites say temperature. Could it be we have low body temperature forcing shrinkage of everything down there?

  3. Can we change that - i.e. are we slightly hypothyroid - can we elevate this to correct?? My crackpot endo gave me a two month supply of Sythroid; not because I was Hypo but because she noticed some small nodules during a ultrasound. I have always had low T4 while on propoecia - now is in range but still on low end. Would this help? Can it hurt? My guess is that for a month or two my system would be revved up a bit - possibly Hyper but maybe this would be a jumpstart??

  4. Started back with T supplements in addition to the Tamox. I am actually cycling these this time - each one only one per week hoping to not lose the effects. I had good results with Tongkat the first time only to lose it after aout 2 weeks. Tribulus and Tongkat Ali seem to be the two everyone talks about helping grow the testicles back - ny others recommended??

  5. Can the testicles and scrotum change on a dime? Here is why - today I woke up and my testicles and sack were basically pretty close to what the were years ago. I could not freaking believe it - in fact I have been wearing a zinger at night and could not get it around my new sack size. The tesicles seemed fuller (with fluid??) and my sack was not shrunken beyond belief. Had a woody too which went pretty quickly. But I went downstairs and drank some coffee which always makes me have to crap. This basically emptied everything down there - I mean the tesicles shrunk back and the scrotum was suddenly back to the old crappy state. Still like that now -WTF!?!

Like many of you I am starting to forget how things were pre-fin but is this the bodies natural reaction to shitting. I mean having the balls and scrotum contract to avoid any messiness - I seriously cannot remember. I knw the body will do this when exercising heavily or running to avoid injury and have blood flow to other parts of the body.

  1. If the answer to the above is yes - then is there any way to have it go the other way. In other words how the fuck did the testciles actually get bigger this morning and then empty out like a balloon popping. Or were they around the same size but the sack/scrotum just much more filled with liquid/hanging fuller and lower?? And if so how the fuck do I get to this mornings state more often? Is it body temperature related? Thyroid related? Is it the T-raising supplements (been one week back on). Is it switching to boxers permanently (3 days). Was it the fact that I overdid it the night before and was a bit hungover? Is it just totally random and I am fucked?

Would like to hear if anyone has the same issues - I cannot imagine talking to my urologist about the shitting issue.

#2

scaredtodeath,

I was doing HCG injections a while back. It offered very little relief and most of it was only in the very begining period of using it.

As far as the nuts and why the sag, I donā€™t believe itā€™s anything your doing day to day, such as drinking as you had suggested. I believe something is causing our bodies to not produce the right amounts of hormones that we need.

My nuts never sag the entire day. Sometimes they look pretty full and healthy and other times that look like a deflated ballloon, just as you had mentioned.

Iā€™m not sure if the body temp is related to why the nuts sag, but I have very aggressively pursued trying to get my temp back in line. I have not been able to achieve this yet.

#3

Regarding the tight sac and testicles tight to the body, this can change very quickly. Alcohol shrinks mine as does stimulants. L argentine can relax and make the sac fuller but for me it stopped working over time. Marijuana has normalized the non erect penis and sac to close to a pre fin state.

Personally I donā€™t think that temp is the issue but rather amplifies the problem.

#4

MartinM - so you have cured your shrinkage through pot?

Does it return if you stop or was this permanent? And what is your theory on why this may work?

THX

#5

Marijuana is a vasodilator so it causes smooth muscles to relax. Veins are controlled by smooth muscles. I have had it twice in the last 2.5 months. The first time I had a complete recovery, the second only some relaxation and the more relaxed and full penis especially non-erect. So yes, elimination of shrinkage has been going this long so far. Its like every side with fin though, I donā€™t know if itā€™s a permanant cure or not, I just know itā€™s been working so far. Also, the second time I tried it I had no libido for a week but what I had came back after 2weeks. The first time it tried it I had a pre fin libido for 4days or so.

#6

Mate,

are you just on nolva?

WTF? For low e2?

Youā€™ve been given horrible advice mate, you need an AI to manage your estrogen. Nolva is a SERM is doesnt do anything to estrogen levels it simply tricks your body into thinking you have less E2 than you actually do. SERMā€™s are used to stimulate LH and FSH. Your testosterone production is ok. YOu need an AI . Could take Nolva alongside aromasin.

#7

You lost me - on other posts administrator has suggested for high E:

Your Estrogen level is clearly elevated out of range. Finasterie is documented to cause gynecomastia due to shifting the androgen/estrogen ratio to be in favor of estrogen, due to inhibition of DHT Natural supplements like DIM and Chrysin may assist with bringing things down, however likely not to the same extent as medication. If you are considering pharmaceutical treatments, arimidex and tamoxifen are usually the options.

I has actually asked for Arimidex and was turned down by both Endo and Urologist who thought Tamoxifen was the safer more universal route. Are you saying this will not work at all? BTW - I was actually hoping for an LH booster as well(like HCG)

#8

Yep, thatā€™s basically what im saying.

Nolva does NOTHING, and i mean nothing, to estrogen levels. It just blocks their effect.

Nolva, Clomid etc are SERMS, not AIā€™s. AIā€™s are what vary your estrogen levels.

SERMā€™s are used for gyno because they block estrogenā€™s effects.

Go on a bodybuilding forum and read all about this if you wish.

#9

Colin - interesting - so what would be your recommendations. What protocol have you been following (assume you are a high E guy from your knowledge). I am due for an E retest this month so we will see if this had any effect.

I should alo mention I have been trying to take some dim each day to lower E as well. Read that this lowers the bad E - whatever that means.

#10

Exclusively for high E2 aromasin or letro. Depends on your numbers though.

Im still researching the roots of things.

I mean, if thereā€™s something else thats making your e2 high in the first place then that is the root cause not the e2. Although high e2 needs managed anyway.

Have been doing a lot of research into aromasin and im convinced its the king of AIā€™s for many reasons. The fact that people barely know about it on here shows me that this isnt the place for answers. Research broadly.

#11

your get used to ur new nut size, its strange and takes sumtime to get used to hrt stopped mine from shrinking, hcg worked for a few times at a time. whats ur fsh, lh, test levels? could be testicular apoptosis. As soon as u stop hrt ur nuts shrink again. Mine sustained at 2inchs which is clinically normal1, but i lost at least an inch if not more.

#12

Not sure I will get used to the new nut size.

Anyway - one issue I have is after forcing myself to ejaculate my testicles hurt for at least a day Can also sometimes feel a pulsing. Anyone else

#13

Orgasams suck now. I end up with bad feelings all around.

#14

I can honestly say this morning was the worst I have ever been - 1 year after quiting. I have been on tamoxifen and have been cycling some supplements for two weeks as well as high D, E, C, and ZMA each day (along with garlic). Nothing is working and my balls are almost gone, my scrotum is non-existent - my shaft is so small. I have pain in my testicles - sometimes pulsing or tingling but they feel so bad. I feel nausea as well - pretty bad

My one bright spot is that with some ED medicine I can almost feel normal - Cialis does not really work but Levitra seems to. Helps to regain penis size but balls are still shrunken I know I have to take a major step and get onto some protocol but I am so lost. HCG, Comid, Arimidex? Who knows. I know the shrinkage is hormone related but I have no idea what to do next.

Many have suggested Shippen -he is at least 5 hours from me. Seems like he is booked anyway. Can I have my urologist consult with some of the doctors listed. Is there anyone around Pittsburgh?

I feel pretty fucked right now - Merry Xmas

#15

This is quite an ignorant statement. Many men with much worse symptoms than you have done plenty of research on multiple forums, and probably know a lot more about testosterone boosting protocols and controlling estrogen than many endos. Itā€™s just that our problem is much more complicated than that. Of course itā€™s good to research but many of us do the same.

Furthermore you have said that TRT isnā€™t the answer and itā€™s idiotic to try it, but simultaneously praise Crisler, who uses this treatment with PFS sufferers. I have noticed your threads on HLT with ā€˜Endenā€™ and you are both off the mark, if it was simple as T:E ratios or restarting the HPTA this site would be a ā€˜how to recoverā€™ guide. Some men on here were already on TRT before fin crashed their systems.

#16

I need helpā€¦

#17

I didnā€™t say TRT isnā€™t an option i just say its a last option.

The reason for my statement is because i find this forum is quite good at raising more questions than answers. Itā€™s nooneā€™s fault, its the nature of PFS and its unfortunate. All im saying is that there is very little concrete advice or information on various potential protocols. Again, nooneā€™s fault.

I agree with the latter somewhat. IMO the problems, in most cases, root from hormonal issues. That doesnā€™t mean the reaction to these imbalances arent beyond hormonal etcā€¦ Fair doā€™s? That said, I am convinced that a good 50% of this board would find massive improvement if they had proper hormonal guidance/ resources which is of course something we would all have in an ideal world. The reality is they havent had the opportunity to try fine tune their hormones and trace their progress with different, well tailored and elaborate protocols. Itā€™s just not feasible for 99% of people, right? So how can we say for sure its not mainly hormonal if we havent even scrached the surface with them?

Most docs arent anywhere near well enough qualified in this domain to do partake in such protocols either or, realistically, interested enough to ā€œriskā€ trying such HPTA restarts. Aromasin, the drug i want, is only licensed for male breast cancer over here - itā€™ll be needed it on special licence. One instance of red tape.

Most endos couldnā€™t even restart a steriod abuser but yet these guys often bulldose their way back to normality on their own.

The endoctrine system is complicated and fixing PFS sufferers problems will usually take more money and time than most people have.

Well, maybe there should be a ā€œhow to try and recoverā€ section.

Alot of people on here with v.low testosterone levels for instance are secondary hypodondal sufferers.

I know its dangerous to give blanket advice etc but some advice on different drugs, potential textbook protocols wouldnā€™t go a miss. A lot of secondary hypogonadism patients all share similar issues and will receive similar advice.

The reality is, Dr Shippin and Dr Crisler use a trial and error approach of different protocols incorporating AIā€™s, SERMs, HcG and the like. People pay thousandā€™s of dollars (not saying anything against any docs as these guys are great and their involvement is necessary) to get a certain level of blanket advice that could be got on here.

I guess noone is confident enough to devise certain textbook protocols and of course, every case is different, but certain paths to try and recover are being actively utilised by these doctors (and many of us, personally).

#18

I think a how to try and recover section would be great - ideally sections centered around the various types of hormonal issues (i.e. low T/Low E, Normal T/high E, etc. etc.)

Another question - after ejaculation does anyoneā€™s testicle hurt/throb for the rest of the day? Never had this pre-fin or during but now it takes like a day to recover. Leads me to believe hormones out of whack and the supplementation of the right substances would help

#19

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#20

i think a section with our physical changes should be created. Where we can upload pictures of our testicles/ penis as time goes by to show the damage created. My testicles have lost more than half their size and i keep sending pictures to doctors to their disbelief. If we had data in here of our different physical symptoms after finasteride use it would help somewhat. Some have lost muscle and keep loosing, some have created a fatty layer around belly some have atrophying penis/testicles.

PHYSICAL symptom section with pictures PLS