I have seen this argument used a few times. I would like to point out that it is a LOGICAL FALLACY.
Doctors may not beleive in PFS but they don’t believe in faeries at the bottom of the garden either, that doesnt mean faeries exist.
The fact PFS is ignored does not make other things that are ignored any more real.
…
I always think about if adding a post will add something to a thread. This post adds absolutely “Zero” to this thread. Why bother saying anything? We all understand what a cliche is.
For an overall excellent nutritional read and how to fix leaky gut:
Protein Power Lifeplan by Drs. Michael and Mary Eades
Greetings, apprecciated auditorrium.
Sindrom of “leaky gut” (a lack of mucosal integrity) was respectively debated in development of this (modest) thread, and that was its exact idea.
It is true that such condition (and consequences of bowel microb “overgrowth”,thus releasing toxics in the system) is widely undiagnosed and offical medical community mainly dont accept as something attention-worth.
There are many naturopats, holistic doctors, homeopats which pointing at it, as main and fundamental root-cause of many “modern” serious ill-conditions (including cancer, MS, rheumatoid arthritis, ankylosing spondilitis).
Hovewer, I meet some very credeble alternative-medician in the past (20 yrs ago), and he explained about rigorous diet as a resort to treat (even cure) such heavy auto-immune ilnesses like rheumatiod artritis and ankylosing spondiylitis. (that was very odd , since nobody in medical branch- with few exceptions- didnt mention any diet). Purpose of diet was, in fact, to starve microbs in bowel by not giving them their food (carbohydrates). But, that was very well known method of Alma Nissen Brandals clinic in Stockholm, Sweden, woman who cured her own arthritis and opened center for such conditions. She served a vegetable broths to her very-ill pacients and successed to give them release in symptoms. Suprisingly, in that time (1970-s till 1990-s) classicall med doc didnt cared for this (I am a wittnes). But that was true. It worked for patients and they came in this small hospital with wheelchairs and were able to leave it on their feet, hovewer fairy-talesly sounded.
Now, lets back to the point.
Logical view: oficiall medical community doesnt “like” non-officcial approaches to treat pathological medical conditions. They didnt red it in text-books.
Does this approach have any scientific background nowadays? Yes, it does.
Namely, professor Alan Erbringer London clinic of rheumatology, immunology section with his assocciates, has developed theory of “molecular mimicry” and found connection of Proteus bacteria and Klebsiella (bowel)bacterias with inflammatoring autoimune process in pacients affected tissues (joints). Further, they proposed their pacients “Low starch diet” or “No-starch diet” for rheumatoid arthritis and ankylosing spondilitis. With no starch, it is possiblle to starve these bacterias and to weaken active auto-immune process in joints. Pacients have succes with those diets and some of them were able to even leave their medications for good. This is very connected with “leaky-gut” syndrome and auto-immune response, because these bacterias are bowel-habittants and London medicals did tests on their patients and have found it it in affected tissues (an fecals) in increased number (compared with healthy-persons). Such opits did few more hospitals in world, with simmilar results. But, some other hospitals (probably?) didnt have success with test and had rejected theory of “molecular mimicry”. So, that theory and that protocol have its place only in London clinic, not in the rest of Europe.
Contemplative view: are there some lobby of interests which is unhappy with non-classicall approach or some companies would, thus, lose their profit (i.e. Centrocor, which products biological med called “Remicade” for Arthritis which is very expensive and uknown side effects). That is a question.
Parhaps there are other explanations. But, there are 3 facts in this whole discours:
(circle of “high-class” proffessions i.e. medicine, law… is theme for itself, a speciffical sociogical theme, isnt it?)
And finnaly, what is the purpouse of this post and what it has to do with propecia damage?
Answer is: to give a place in some logical thinking. (like I said, I am not of medical proffesion, but studied and finished “top-faculty”, circled some around, and so can use- very modestly-logic). Please, continue to contribute.
Greetings,
Desperado.
I tried the no starch diet for months and saw no improvement. It may exist but its not pfs.
Despo111,
My doctor wasn’t questioning leaky gut as a medical problem. He simply didn’t want to test me for it. He was unaware that I had an ulcer, during my time taking propecia. I strongly believe the uclcer was caused from taking propecia. I posted a link directly from Merck’s website that states that pharmaceutical drugs can cause stomach ulcers.
For the majority of us, our problem involves the immune system and it is believed by some that it is “autoimmune” in nature.
Check out Naltrexone.
Really? What majority? And why should anyone believe their issues are autoimmune related?
This forum really needs an “ignore button”, for useless members like you.
Thats a bit harsh boston, considering there is no evidence that the immune system has anything to do with pfs.
If it did wouldnt i have felt good on prednisolone?
Hmmm if there was an ‘ignore button’ you may have missed my brilliant posts regarding autoimmune reactions earlier in this thread, which offers a genuine answer as to why PFS symptoms can get worse after stopping and with androgen supplementation.
Of course if I knew this thread was going to be about the imaginary illness that is ‘leaky gut syndrome’ I dont know that I would have bothered.
No, it is only small atempt to explain how some very “educated” people could be ignorant, in general. It is based on personal experience and personal interaction. Molecular mimicry is now (from 1996.)accepted theory in part of medical lobby for AS treatment, as well as low-carbohydrate diet. That approach is known in alternative medicine for long time. You can build your case from there.
Second, unfortunately there are many charlattans, even with medical degree. For example Mercks medical “practicioners” and quasi-scientists.
D.
Hi,
as some part of appreciated auditorium are fammiliar with, from recently I am occupied about possibility of role of microbical pathogens to make significant impact on human general health, as well as my personal health. That could be reason of certain auto-immune reactions (due to pathogen microbe overgrowth) which also could affect endocrine system and possibly genital organs and prostate. That is the reason I am investigating things in such directions, so I did the candida antibodies test (not so cheap).
blood test 12.09.2011.
CANDIDA IgG = 50.6 H U/mL ref. < 30
(results are after 7 days I quit starch products and lowered consuming of sugar, before that- I beleive- IgG on candida probably could be even higher).
I ll try to find some regimen on diet and medications and do further investigations. I think the famous “leaky-gut syndrom” is -perhaps- worth attention in cases like this.
Greetings,
Desperado.
I believe it certainly plays a role in some of us… Ihatepropecia702 is currently treating candida with anti-fungals (nystatin), and his erections are back to normal for the most part bc of it…
I don’t know very much about anti bodies, but IgG is the anti bodies found in vasectomized guys too.
IgG is only marker for chronical conditions, longer existance of pathogenic presence… Test for antibodies must be specific, it must target something (i.e. candida, kleibsella). It shows that your immune system is fighting against foreign invader (or gene which is wrongly recognized as foreigner by immune system).
I think you are missinterpretated something.
D.
Despo111,
You’re the first person I have seen that has actually tested for this here.
I have done a good amount of research on this topic recently. You will need to commit to the Candida diet and it’s absolutely brutal. I started it a few days ago, just to see if it would help me feel better.
Why not do the test for leaky gut?
I am still interested interested as we share a lot common symptoms with MS patients.
especially
Double vision or blurring of vision
Tingling or pain in parts of your body
urine incontinence and urgency
Electric-shock sensations that occur with certain head movements
Tremor, lack of coordination or unsteady gait
Fatigue
Dizziness
also interestingly allopreganolone is also responsible for MS. fin is known reduce it.
interstingly I found vasectomy causes amost thes same symptoms which we are having. I applogise for brining this topic again and again but I am doing for the sake of comparison).Now since Vesectomy is auto immune and cuases total T to go down so should we conclude that we have autoimmune and our MS like symptoms are due to low T?
any thoughts?
dontfixit.org/Adrenal gland dysfunction
· Atheosclerosis (hardening of the arteries leading to heart disease)
· Autoimmune orchitis (degeneration of testicular tissues due to antibody action)
· Chronic inflammation including the formation of sperm granulomas
· Chronic testicular pain (Post-Vasectomy Pain Syndrome)
· Circulatory problems including phlebitis
· Congestive and infectious epididymitis
· Decreased testicular function including changes in testosterone production
· Diabetes
· Erectile dysfunction/impotence
· Gangrene of the scrotum and other serious infections
· Generalized lymph node enlargement
· Hypoglycemia
· Life-long autoimmune (allergic) responses
· Liver dysfunction
· Loss of libido
· Lung cancer
· Lupus
· Migraine and other related headaches
· Multiple myeloma
· Multiple sclerosis
· Narcolepsy
· Neuropathy (nerve pain and damage)
· Non-Hodgkins lymphoma
· Personality disturbances
· Prostate cancer
· Prostatitis
· Pulmonary embolism
· Rheumatoid arthritis
· Scrotal and epididymal cyst formation including Spermatocele and Hydrocele cysts
· Staph infections including infections of the heart valves
· Testicular atrophy (shrinking of the testicles)
· Testicular cancer
· Urolithiasis (kidney stones).
· Vasitis nodosa (chronic inflammation of the vas deferens)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748684?dopt=Abstract
"In the recent years, it has become increasingly clear that the immune response is also influenced by mediators which were first discovered as regulators in the nervous or also cardiovascular system. Here, small peptide hormones may play an important role. Kinins like bradykinins act on the endothelium and play a role for trafficking of lymphocytes over the blood-brain barrier. Neuropeptides like vasoactive intestinal peptide or neuropeptide Y also directly act on T cells and favour the differentiation of Th2 cells or regulatory T cell populations. Recently, the renin-angiotensin system (RAS) came into the focus of interest. Inhibition of the RAS at different levels may influence autoimmune responses and involve T cells as well as antigen-presenting cells, probably via different signalling pathways. Inhibitors of angiotensin converting enzyme and antagonists of the angiotensin 1 receptors are used in the treatment of hypertension, kidney disease or stroke by millions of people worldwide. These inexpensive and safe pharmaceuticals may also represent an interesting and innovative approach for the (combination) treatment of autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis."