There are over 1 million people using Propecia alone yet the total membership of this forum makes up less than half a percent of the total number of people using Propecia.
I’m wondering are we extremely unlucky or is PFS alot more widespread and the number of people on this forum only represents a tiny percentage of the total number of sufferers ?
Very good question
Personally my opinion is that most users will not associate they’re side effects to the poison and many wont have sides until they stop for whatever reason.
Like I’ve said lately, wait until the day hopefully arrives when this shit is pulled from the market and the numbers of members on here will rise.
It’s a thought that often crosses my mind though, I’ve thought about this question many times.
To say so many people take this crap there are very few members.
i crashed in 2007 but didnt join this site until 2012,id say the few thousand people on this site are just the tip of the iceberg imo,i had no internet at the time of my crash so didnt know what the hell was happening to me,just the docs telling me it was all in my head etc etc,you all know the story…
I agree 100%, Thetigershull.
Yeah, I think people getting off the drug are gonna be hit hard like myself. I posted this somewhere else but I know a guy who has used it for 13 years, he says the only thing he has noticed is tons and tons of plaque on his teeth that the dentist can’t figure out…this happened to me as well. I think many people may be doomed
Finatruth,
You may want to pass this paper onto your friend, which says that high oxidative stress causes Periodontitis (plaque accumulation).
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article … po=34.0909
You may want to include a link to my thread to give some context for how you get from Finasteride to high oxidative stress. The rational is sprinkled repeatedly throughout.
This has been an important paper to our theory because they use Nicotine to induce oxidative stress, then measure down-regulation of 5α-reductase activity. I have commented on it here:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7178&start=160#p72779
This is why people think Finasteride is still in us. Its not, but 5α-reductase is reduced because of the persistent state discussed in the thread.
But your friend may just want to pass it along to his dentist to help connect the dots.
Droit- does that relate to the below study? I also am having horrible gum recession and bleeding gums despite great oral hygiene. So you think we have a reduction in 5ar? Anyway to fix this?
Are you sure there are one million people who use finasteride?? Where did you see that number from? My opinion this drug will screw everyone up who uses it long enough. Some may not realize it, some may now know it, and some may not know their issues are related to using it.
fina13- yes I agree. I beleive if they ask all propecia users they would have some affect, potentially loss of nightime and AM erections, loss of sexual dreams, perhaps some reduced libido etc. My theory is our we have less of something in our brains, something in less quantity that makes us more OCD, anxious, Type A personality and thereofore are hit the hardest.
Neurosteroids modulate compulsive and persistent behavior in rodents: implications for obsessive-compulsive disorder.
S N U, J M V, N S J, P V D.
Source
University Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Rashtrasant Tukadoji Maharaj Nagpur University, Mahatma Jyotiba Fuley Shaikshanik Parisar, Amravati Road, Nagpur, MS 440 033, India. umathesn@hotmail.com
Abstract
Neurosteroids are reported to modulate GABAergic and glutamatergic pathways that then influence serotonin and dopamine, the neurotransmitters implicated in pathophysiology of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). Fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor clinically used in OCD is reported to increase the levels of neurosteroids like allopregnanolone, whereas OCD patients exhibit higher plasma levels of dehydroepiandrosterone 3-sulphate (DHEAS), a neuroactive steroid having opposite effects to that of allopregnanolone. Hence, it was contemplated that neurosteroids may influence obsessive-compulsive behavior. To test this possibility we studied the influence of various neurosteroids on two behavioral models of OCD, namely marble-burying behavior in mice and 8-OH-DPAT induced disruption of spontaneous alternation behavior (SAB) in rats. The results revealed that allopregnanolone (1 microg/mouse, i.c.v) and progesterone (20mg/kg, s.c.) reduced the marble-burying behavior in mice, whereas dehydroisoandrosterone 3-sulphate (DHAS) (5mg/kg, i.p.) exacerbated the same. The effects of allopregnanolone were comparable to that of fluoxetine (10mg/kg, i.p.). In view of the report that restraint stress increases the levels of allopregnanolone and isolation stress decreases the same, we studied the effect of these stressors on marble-burying behavior; wherein it was found to be less in restraint stress exposed mice, and higher in socially isolated mice. Restrain stress-induced attenuation of marble-burying behavior was blocked by finasteride, a neurosteroid biosynthesis blocker. In rat model of SAB disruption, acute and chronic treatment with allopregnanolone (1 microg/mouse, i.c.v.) reduced 8-OH-DPAT-induced persistent behavior, whereas treatment with DHAS (5mg/kg, i.p.) had an opposite effect. In conclusion, the studies indicate that neurosteroids can modulate obsessive-compulsive behavior in a bidirectional manner, and could serve as an effective target in the management of OCD.
This would imply we have lower levels of allopregnanolone to begin with. Could be that people that are not affected as badly don’t have such low levels as we do and therefore can afford a decrease in allopregnanolone.
Yes, this is exactly my theory.
I asked people a while back to find out if anyone had low progesterone in their family. My mother is neurotic and once had to take progesterone bc she suffered from slight low progesterone (which is same as slight estrogen dominance)
I don’t know. I recently heard that Sweden has 3000 users of Propecia, and the authorities are aware of 4 or 5 with PFS. The problem appears to be rare. Question is, how many people are left with persistent side effects without knowing about it? Especially older men who may attribute those problems to age?
I’d say there is also a lot of people who dont report their symptoms because they are too embarrassed.
30000 propecia users in France every year.
I cannot sleep since the 1st propecia pill I’ve taken. 4 years from now.
I think I ve a permanent depression.
Currently on ssri since 1 month. But it doesn’t fix my sleep issue.
Please don’t take any SSRI
These work like propecia in same receptors.
I’m taking Remeron which is an anti depressant but not of the SSRI type.
SSRI’s will make you worse
Hi THETIGERSHULL,
Thank you for your answer.
Did you personnaly try SSRI for the sleep issues or your point of view is based on other user’s opinion?
Before having used Propecia, SSRI (Zoloft) made me sleep very well. That’s why I took it again.
But, indeed, my sleep seems really to have been destroyed by the Propecia pills.
O min/night is common (even if I make some workouts etc.) since… 4 years (first days I took propecia during 3 months)
I manage to sleep (2 hours of light sleep but that already removes the headache) using VERATRAN (Clotiazépam)
Thanks again for your feedback
I’ve used 2 x SSRI’s recently and both made me worse. It is generally felt that they will not help and may makes things worse.
I’m taking Remeron, I would suggest you maybe try that? Helps with sleep too.
Link?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8238&hilit=SSRI
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8189&p=73470&hilit=SSRI#p73470
Search rest of site for SSRI