Another way of treatment, please read it

General Discussion
#1

Few weeks ago I visited a Doctor/naturopath/homeopath (a retired guy, not in Canada) and discussed our condition. He proposed very unique treatment. He told me to flush out my blood so that my body can reproduce new blood. According to him my liver is not breaking down the bi-products of finasteride / saw palmetto and these bi-products are circulating in our body and causing all kinds of sides. Now I don’t know if it is related or not but I can swear I was having SP burps for months after stopping it. Anybody who has taken Saw palmetto knows what I am talking about. It gives very nasty smell to your breath and causes bad smelling burps for days after taking it. I don’t know how it was possible. but it was happening with me and I have already written about it in my old posts. I have not taken finasteride so I don’t know if finasteride cause the same breath problem.
Any way the poroposed treatment plan was to let little amount of my blood out every month, for months or even for a year. Until I start feeling well.
Second thing he suggested was bee sting venom therapy to increase collagen production and strengthen nervous system. Actually, I visited him for marks left after taking off my socks. I get very deep marks in my shins from my socks and they stay there for hours (I am sure other members will be have made the same observation). He right away pointed that my body is not producing enough Collagen and that is why my body is so soft, not only body but the very important organ, you all know what I mean. I think he was right. Many members have complained about weak tendons here.

So to overcome collagen deficiency he told me to

1-Eat beef cartilage and drink bone soup. Just boil bones and drink the soup.
2- bee sting therapy.

Now a little Google search showed me the following links about bee venom therapy

dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2066395/Stop-wrinkles-bee-sting-Celebrities-favourite-poison-available-high-street.html

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0944711308000378

melittin.net/melittin-resources/bee-venom-therapy.html

and now here a guy to who claims to have recovered from his peronies after using been venom therapy.
Some of us are suffering peyronies.
curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1751595

The summary of this theory is that arthritis and patronizes are caused by the same plaque. Bee venom ,if applied consistently for months removes this plaque

Now I have not tried bloodletting or bee sting therapy yet. I am doing the easiest part which is bone soup. Some people might be allergic to bee sting, so if anybody wants to try this, should check his allergic reaction. I am looking for bee keeper here in Canada, if found one will not hesitate to try it.

#2

I’ll order some leaches first thing tomorrow!

#3

has any body read the link curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1751595 so far?

#4

leaches for what? they are good for thinnig blood and reviving blood circulation but how can they help with DHT metabolism?

#5

He was joking.

Take some Arimidex and those lines will go away. Your body is just holding some extra water because your probably E2 dominant.

#6

can you go more into detail of what you are talking about here? what lines are you referring to? and can you explain how the body would hold extra water for being E2 dominant? does E2 dominant mean you have an enlarged prostate, which would block urine?

thanks.

#7

I never read any post like this, yet there was a post from kemangd about kidney transplant but again that was for a normal person not a post fin user.
suppose liver transplant do reverse fin caused sides then would you run for liver transplant? I would not take any more adventures.

#8

can you go more into detail of what you are talking about here? what lines are you referring to? and can you explain how the body would hold extra water for being E2 dominant? does E2 dominant mean you have an enlarged prostate, which would block urine?

thanks.
[/quote]
It’s pretty simple. Nearly every single person on this site is E2 dominant. Either their E2 levels are too high, or their androgen levels and/or action is too low. One of the symptoms of E2 dominance is retaining water. Some people see it in their faces, some in their chests, some in their ankles and legs.

If I ever take my socks off and see that their are indentation lines there that stay for more than 10 seconds (sometimes hours) then I know my E2 is a bit too high. I just up my Arimidex dose a tad and the lines won’t show up anymore.

#9

It’s pretty simple. Nearly every single person on this site is E2 dominant. Either their E2 levels are too high, or their androgen levels and/or action is too low. One of the symptoms of E2 dominance is retaining water. Some people see it in their faces, some in their chests, some in their ankles and legs.

If I ever take my socks off and see that their are indentation lines there that stay for more than 10 seconds (sometimes hours) then I know my E2 is a bit too high. I just up my Arimidex dose a tad and the lines won’t show up anymore.
[/quote]
thanks for that. that’s pretty interesting, never knew that.

#10

playing with arimidex is not safe. It cause almost the same sides what finasteride / saw palmetto is causing. Just read this thread. The user Chemman claims his sides started after using Arimidex.

forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/aromatase-inhibitors-joint-pain-134303991-3.html
One of the major side effects of AIs is the development of musculoskeletal symptoms. These symptoms were originally referred to as Arthralgia Syndrome, but more recently the term AI-induced musculoskeletal symptoms (AIMSS) has been used to describe the constellation of joint pain, symmetric morning stiffness improving with activity, a sensation of abrupt aging, and soft tissue thickening. Carpal tunnel syndrome has also been demonstrated in a group of women with other symptoms of AIMSS. The hands and wrists are the most common sites of pain, but any joint may be affected. While these features have all been recognized under the auspices of AIMSS, there are no formal diagnostic criteria for this syndrome. Most studies rely on elevation of pain scores in conjunction with AI use to define the syndrome.

Reports on the incidence of AIMSS in patients using AIs vary widely due to differing definitions of the syndrome. In adjuvant trials of third generation AIs (anastrozole, letrozole, and exemestane), the prevalence of bone and joint symptoms was between 5 and 36%. However, more recent studies performed outside of clinical trials suggest that the prevalence is even higher. In a cross sectional survey of women on AIs, 47% of women had joint pain, and 44% had joint stiffness attributable to AIs. Development of musculoskeletal symptoms is thought to contribute to the poor compliance associated with AIs; however, studies also suggest that joint complaints are also associated with better outcomes and less risk of breast cancer recurrence.

The mechanisms by which AIMSS develop remain unknown, and several studies have incorporated rheumatologic assessment to investigate whether the symptoms can be attributed to an underlying rheumatologic process. The results are conflicting.

Based on the results of this study, researchers did not find evidence to support an inflammatory basis for AIMSS. They identified a higher than expected frequency of positive ANA and previously undiagnosed autoimmune disease, but these issues were evenly distributed among cases and controls, suggesting they are likely not related to medication exposure, and simply reiterating the importance of a thorough rheumatologic work-up for symptomatic patients.

Shanmugam V, McCloskey J, Elston B, Allison S, Eng-Wong J. The CIRAS study: a case control study to define the clinical, immunologic, and radiographic features of aromatase inhibitor-induced musculoskeletal symptoms. Breast Cancer Research and Treatment 2011:1-10. The CIRAS study: a case control study to define the clinical, immunologic, and radiographic features of aromatase inhibitor-induced musculoskeletal symptoms

Aromatase inhibitors (AIs) are widely prescribed for post-menopausal hormone receptor-positive breast cancer; however, musculoskeletal symptoms limit their tolerability. The purpose of this study was to determine whether joint pain in women receiving AIs is associated with inflammatory arthritis as measured by the disease activity score-28 (DAS-28), and to evaluate association with tenosynovitis on ultrasound. A total of 48 postmenopausal women with stage I–III breast cancer and hand pain were recruited from the Lombardi Comprehensive Cancer Center.

Those receiving AIs were cases (n = 25), and those not receiving AIs were controls (n = 23). During a single study visit, subjects underwent blinded rheumatologic evaluation, DAS-28, health assessment questionnaires, autoantibodies, inflammatory markers, hand X-ray, and hand Duplex ultrasound.

There were no significant differences between cases and controls in DAS-28, or inflammatory markers. A positive ANA (titer > 1:160) was found in ten patients, four of whom met criteria for autoimmune disease (two with rheumatoid arthritis and two with Sjogren’s syndrome, equally distributed among cases and controls). This highlights the importance of considering underlying autoimmune disease in subjects with musculoskeletal complaints. Morning stiffness was more prolonged in women receiving AIs, but this did not reach statistical significance (P = 0.07). Ultrasound evidence of flexor tenosynovitis was common in both groups. Although tenosynovitis was not correlated with AI use (P = 0.26), there was a trend toward an association between tenosynovitis and morning stiffness (P = 0.089).

While aromatase inhibitor-induced musculoskeletal symptoms (AIMSS) were more common in subjects receiving AIs, they were not unique to AI users. There was no association between presence of AIMSS features and other chemotherapy or medication exposures. Although the majority of subjects had been using AIs for more than 6 months, this study did not find evidence for inflammatory arthritis in women with hand pain receiving AIs. Further studies are needed to develop a case definition of AIMSS, and to confirm whether these symptoms are attributable to AI use.

Read more from the MESO-Rx Steroid Forum at: forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/aromatase-inhibitors-joint-pain-134303991-3.html#ixzz1hJpgqqD5

#11

I have to report very interesting case here about how blood change in our body can help us.

one guy here in my community got sick (He was having constantly fever on / off for six three months. doctors first suspected malaria) and doctors ran all kinds of tests on him and could not get any clue of the disease. They finally suspected blood cancer and tested his bone marrow but that test too came negative. He lost a lot of weight and became very weak. Finally doctors got disappointed and after keeping him for almost 30 days in the hospital sent him home. Obviously his wife was very disappointed. She took him back to India. The first thing that Indian doctor did was to give him blood. After taking blood the guy got healed miraculously, probably his immune system got stronger and fought off his virus / bacteria. He is back to Canada and working a full time job now.

#12

did this person have PFS? i haven’t done any research into this. indeed that is pretty interesting… i would like to look into how donated blood contributed him to getting better.

#13

so far as I know he did not use finasteride, but if I get an opportunity I will try to ask him.

#14

Looks like the retired doctor’s theory was not blind arrow shot. I really think changing blood or donating bood can really help us, though will take a long time untill you flush out your metabolites of finasteride.
Read here what Mew posted. Mew is also talking about blood cleansing through Dialysis. I am really very intrested but the problem is Doctor will never do either Dialysis or blood change.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1830

#15

sptriken

I’m on a bone soup diet too at the moment [after some persuasion from toadstool].

I am hoping that it will help to strengthen my gut and prevent gut leakage.
I visit my local butcher twice a week and ask him to keep any bones for me (bones with marrow). Then i buy some meat to go with it and boil it for a few hours until the meat becomes tender, then throw in some vegetables and boil for another couple of hours.

Et voila - a very healthy meal.

#16

Well that was 2 mins of my life I’ll never get back.

Seriously ridiculous. Ya know what? Here’s my idea for a cure:

Get ahold of some of Charlie Sheen’s tiger blood, mix it with 1/2 cup gila monster venom, 2 full cups piss from a tibetan mountain goat, 1 tbsp semen from a american condor and a lock of lady gaga’s pubic hair. blend it throughly for 2 mins and use a meat injector to inject it directly into your wang.

I don’t know whats more pathetic the fact that some of you guys read into this stuff or that you waste time doing so instead of trying to do productive things like write the media, politicians, newpapers or magazines.

Between this and the hamster thread, which I thought was a joke BTW. I would say you are basically on this site to make us all look like a bunch of idiots. Whats worse is some people are falling into the trap.

Tell ya what, go ahead and get your bee sting therapy with your all natural bone meal diet (or whatever) and tell me how it works out. A bunch of you guys all you ever do is come here with your “ideas” for potential cures bounce the ideas around with a few studies and argue over them.

Well if you think these things might work then go try them! No point coming here and trying to convince people to do something if you don’t have enough faith in it yourself to try it. AND IF THEN IT ACTUALLY WORKS FOR YOU… for more then say 2 weeks or a month then you can come back here and tell everyone about what you’ve found.

Otherwise many of the discussions on this forum have the scientific credibility of a drunk at the local townie bar (not the townie bar in Cambridge, MA either) Your mostly all just firing in the dark till we know what the real problem is. Just push for more genuine scientific research to be done and stop playing amazon witch doctor wasting peoples time with these BS ideas. I’ve seen at least 100 other BS ideas already on this site that haven’t panned out…

1 Like
#17

Precisely why this area of the forum has likely run it’s course and probably needs to be closed down. This problem needs to be investigated in the lab by qualified research scientists, not armchair laymen like us dreaming up new theories from home on a daily basis, based on nothing but opinion & belief. And yes, that obviously includes me as well, hence why I have pulled back from “theorizing” over the past few years – I realized long ago the need for scientific research into this problem, and that has been the driving impetus for me and this site since the beginning.

Treatment attempts and reporting on those treatment attempts is a completely different beast vs. trying to understand or explain a root cause of PFS, which requires scientific investigation. As such this section of the forum is filled with conjecture which, although interesting for our own reading, has little bearing on generating scientific interest in our cause, seeing as scientists aren’t even reading or providing feedback on this stuff.

As you mention Broken_Pecker, in many cases it simply makes us look like fools, and causes strife amongst members arguing back and forth over this or that “theory”, to prove this or that with published articles etc, all of which has no outside input from qualified researchers or medical professionals to validate/invalidate such opinions.

In the end, once the root cause(s) of this problem is/are found, this section will no longer be necessary. Personally I feel it has long run its course and at this stage, is causing more damage to this community vs helping it. “Theorizing” (opinion & belief) and arguing about said concepts is simply diverting people’s time and energy away from more productive actions which could generate real-world outcomes such as legal, medical & media awareness, which can help move our collective cause forward (instead of causing strife and in-fighting amongst our membership, as is so common in this section of the forum).

As such a decision amongst the Administrators will be made about what actions to take regarding this section, and when.

#18

Thank you for backing me up Mew.

Further more, I urge everyone on this site to visit the media/public awareness section and look at the open discussions about mass emails and phone calls going on to local/national media sources. If anyone can think of other sources to contact please post them. Try to at least send a few emails or make a few phone calls a week.

EVERYONE SHOULD BE CONTACTING THE FDA RIGHT NOW! We know they are currently evaluating finasteride and feedback to the FDA from everyone on this site in the USA is IMPORTANT!

Now is the time that we can finally blow this open on the national level but we need people to push and start contacting media outlets. We have the numbers to do it, so lets get it done!

#19

yes, theorizing weird theories could be detrimental to forum credibility, but since scientific news are hidden to the general public, this spread of useless attempts is natural.
ther’s a proverb that says: when u r drowning u will cling even to grass

who can blame someone that try to find a solution even if his efforts are reasonable useless?

#20

Mew, I acknowledge all the work you and Awor have done, but I feel closing the Theories section down is a bad idea. There’s a good chance the scientific molecular study is onto something, but we should still have an arena in which we can throw around some of our crazy ideas.

People say, “think outside the box,” and that’s what this section is all about. The fact that it’s hidden surely means that it is not destroying this forum’s credibility?

At the moment we’ve got a little bit more than grass to cling to - we’ve got the molecular study, some other scientific studies taking place, and we’ve got some potential solutions by the way of diet. We’ve also got the hope that there’s something else out there that can fix this.

Taking away the Theories section will remove something that we can cling to as we try our best not to drown.

Maybe there should be an unwritten rule: if you can discredit or support a theory, let it be known, but if you just think it’s stupid, keep it to yourself. I agree that the fighting isn’t helping anybody, but I believe the development of new ideas and theories is essential to finding a cure (especially while the molecular results are unknown)