OK so I guess the question is where do we get this powder and how much do we use
i would consult with a good doctor…get hormone testing done before experimenting…
Getting this stuff is tough…Need to get it overseas. Have fun with Customs;/
im sick of this shit. i am not waiting around anymore. f this.
here is what I have figured out. 6-oxo is the only thing that makes me feel okay.
Even if I shoot myself with 250mg of Test-E i still cant get it up without 6-oxo. I tried proviron and it made me feel better for about 2 days and now i am right back where i started. 800mg of 6-oxo for a couple days and im like a new man. morning and spontaneous erections. I did it for 45 days and I almost forgot i had a problem. it wasnt perfect but it was a gazillion times better. i tapered off of the 6-oxo and once i got to about 300mg /day i was screwed again.
now check it out. i guess 6-oxo doesnt convert to DHT in fact it can suppress the DHT even further. So i thought when I was feeling better with the proviron that i found the answer. My doctor gave me a shot of testosterone about 6 months ago and i was good as new 100% for about 2 weeks and then i fell off. so i went for it again on my own in desperation because im ready to blow my brains out and i got my libido back but i couldnt get it up which was almost worse. I took just 200mg of 6-oxo and i got it up. there is something that it is doing that is correcting or reversing or making up for the problem. what i think is that it isnt necessarily the right thing but it is almost the right thing. like there is another substance (?) that needs to be taken and the results will be in fact instant like when i take 6-oxo. my old theory was that the anti-aramotase was killing off the aramotase enzyme and leaving room for the 5ar to latch on the testosterone and thus increasing the dht.
but then proviron would have helped me on a longer basis. so maybe we need to take something that is going to convert more directly to synthesize to dht like androsterone.
i need to get a hold of someone who better understands 6oxo and i think the answer could lie there.
You are on target with 6-oxo…I took it in 2004(6 years ago) and felt 60-70% better. As soon as I stopped it though, problems came back.
Have you guys had your estrogen levels tested?
iwontgiveup if just test doesn’t help then it seems like your issue is the ratio of T to E more so than the amount of T.
Also if you really wanted to talk to someone who knew more about 6-oxo then Patrick Arnold is your man. I believe he created it, among other prohomones and “ancillaries”. He used to have an account on the bodybuilding.com forums but was banned for being a little mouthy to people. He’s on other forums however.
Well when it is working for me the side effect is painful joints especially my elbow so I assume it is lowing my E pretty low at that point. But I guess it doesnt keep it down because the symptoms come right back the day after I discontinue the 6-oxo. I ran a 45 day cycle and tapered it off 3 days per 100mg and once I got to 300mg it was worthless but that mustve been due to some sort of receptor degredation because I took 200mg yesterday and it was effective. I guess 6-oxo can speed up the HPTA as well. Also, if I switch from 6oxo to say 6bromo/atd (clomidex) it is not helpful at all. I have trying to find more info about 4-etioallocholen - 3,6,17-trione all day today here at work and I even called ErgoGenix previously ergopharm and they wouldnt tell me ANYTHING except that they cant tell me anything because the product is discontinued. Pat Arnold might hold the key. Does anyone know more about how to reach this gentleman chemist?
Weird that bromo didn’t help, hmmm
Anyway PA can be reached here:
forum.bodybuilding.com/sendmessa … ber&u=7848
His profile is here: bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/PatrickArnold/
He’s a famous guy, one of the leading minds in the way of pro hormones and hormonal supplements.
My 11B-OH- Etiocholanolane(OHET) on the 24 hour urine analysis (Taken in January)is:
48 Reference Range:134-1186.
Not sure if this corrleates with what you just said?
so if i am reading this right then the normal range for OHET is 134-1186. But you, sufferer of Post-Finasteride Syndrome is getting a reading of 48.
Well I know that that 6-oxo (4-androstene-3,6,17-trione (4AT)) converts into 3-OHAT. And well, according to the article below it isnt the 3-OHAT, although described as an AI, it isnt inhibiting the aramotase, the 6oxo (4AT) is. But it must doing something. And OHAT looks a lot like OHET which you (and probably me and maybe everyone) is deficient in! hmmm…
Guys, appreciate the discussion but can we try and keep this thread on topic regarding the thread title (DHT replacement/5AR2 gene expression).
If you want to discuss 6-OXO etc pls do so in seperate thread. Cheers.
I found the mesterolone…theres no ester with this stuff so its not gonna have much of a half life.
So 100mg is the high dose of proviron but its in the normal range. So lets say 200mg of Proviron is a good supraphysiological dose.
If it is 4% bioavailable - then 10mg of Mesterolone injected would be the same as 250mg of proviron - right?
How does that sound? I am debating on 10mg /day for 5 days. Or 10mg /week for 4 weeks…
Has anybody tried the IM Mesterolone yet?
JN has tried IM Mesterelone and he said he was getting pains with it…
He is now going to try DHT Hepanthate(250 mg) per week.
He thinks this is what will cure us:)
Is there a thread with this info in it? I have never heard of Hepanthate. And either has google. Enenthate?
Has anyone tried this? Cycling on and off of DHT to increase enzyme activity?
Yes I have tried it. I felt great while on Proviron, but then started to shut down. This is what gave me the idea of a Proviron cycle. Once I stopped Proviron, it took about 6 weeks to get back to the previous defective state.
It makes sense the Proviron would shut you down eventually and take you to a more defective state, it’s the same as if you ran a cycle of Testosterone with no PCT. I think in order to give this thing a real shot, we would have to run it like a normal cycle, complete with PCT. I’ve been thinking we could run Proviron (at 50-100mg a day) for 2-3 weeks, maybe in combination with a small amount of HCG (1,000 IU weekly). Then for PCT running just HCG (2,500 IU weely for two weeks, and 1,000 IU the last week) together with Nolva (10mg) or Clomid (25-50 mg).
I’m clearly not a body builder, but having read quite a few cycles and PCT’s in use by body builders, and taking into account that our body weights and muscular mass are (probably) significantly lower than that of body builders, this seems about right to me. Any thoughts?
Ihatepropecia, how many milligrams a day were you taking of Proviron when you took it for 6 weeks? Did you feel basically back to normal while you were on Proviron (if not, how did you feel)? How many days did you take it before you started feeling an improvement? How many days before you started to feel a decline, or was it when you stopped taking it entirely that you crashed?
That’s what I was thinking too, that’s why I created a thread on a possible Proviron cycle. I was taking 75mg/per week in one shot. So basically every Saturday I took 3 25mg tabs. At first I felt great – almost back to normal. I was able to focus, study, erections were good, libido was ok – not great, but better. But, then I started to shut down. A couple months later I took the Andro Hard for about 30 days, started shutting down then launched a PCT. I’m in the PCT currently and feeling much better, no recovery but definitely better.