Adrenal Fatigue in a combination with Thyroid problems

[Mens_Rea]

Here is a very interesting extract from a nutrictional therapist. I think he’s really on the money here and this could apply to many of us:

When the adrenals increase hormonal secretion, thyroid function is inhibited. This affect appears to be dominated by adrenaline, which increases the levels of reverse T3 in the bloodstream. Reverse T3 is inactive cousin of the primary thyroid hormone T3; because both competitively inhibit one another at binding sides, a high count of reverse T3 can cause the onset of thyroid symptoms. However, this will often be masked by excessive adrenal output of both adrenaline and cortisol but will be brutally unveiled if and when the adrenal function crashes, as is known to occur in adrenal fatigue. This is an example of how stress can induce hypothyroid symptoms. Not only does it demonstrate the need to always check for reverse T3 in all thyroid tests, it also shows why a shift from high adrenal output to low – typical in adrenal fatigue – can cause such a severe crash; the low thyroid function, which was previously masked, now becomes fully evident at the same time as the individual is gripped by adrenal fatigue.

Most of the individuals I see with adrenal fatigue have some sort of impaired thyroid function. In these situations, I focus the source of the problem (the adrenal function) whilst providing adequate levels of nutrition to the thyroid; this includes tyrosine and selenium, but especially iodine, for which 96% of the population test deficient for. Attempts to compensate for these organic imbalances by imposing synthetic thyroid hormones are clumsy and perpetuate the cycle. Removing the cause of thyroid dysfunction and nourishing it with essential nutrients represents a much wiser approach.

adrenalfatiguefocus.org/adrenal-fatigue-vs-hypothyroidism.html

Very, very interesting and it may be a clue as to how some of us are predisposed to propecia problems. I personally believe - from my low body temperature, dry skin, hairloss etc that i have thyroid problems that now have come to light since propecia has sent my adrenals up the left. It’s no coincidence at all that many guys have mounted decent improvements (And recoveries) from things like dexamethasone and T3 and also, in JN’s case preg and T3. I think the above is a vital clue for us, imo. I’m currently working on a few things in this regard and will report back in the coming months.

I’m definately taking into consideration what he’s saying about “going natural” to address thryoid problems as opposed to synthetic T3 etc; iodine is particularly interesting if one presents with only a mild thyroid problem.

[bluecloud87]

Are you saying that severe adrenal fatigue could be the issue here? i am pretty sure this has been covered numerous times on these boards already. Also, JN hasn’t recovered. I don’t know where i stand with adrenal fatigue/ thyroid issues in the context of post finasteride problems. As you know, i attemped Chillin’s method of boosting metabolism, albeit quite sloppily and had no positive results.

[Mens_Rea]

@UK20

Are you saying that severe adrenal fatigue could be the issue here? i am pretty sure this has been covered numerous times on these boards already.

Indeed. We know this already as a case for a large portion of PFS sufferers. Dr Crisler has confirmed this finding on numerous ocassions.

Also, JN hasn’t recovered. I don’t know where i stand with adrenal fatigue/ thyroid issues in the context of post finasteride problems. As you know, i attemped Chillin’s method of boosting metabolism, albeit quite sloppily and had no positive results.

I said improvements / recovery.

This is an interesting article because it points to the prevalence of both problems occuring concurrently (thyroid and adrenal issues) and also that people’s thyroid problems are often masked until their adrenals start to play up. It would appear to be the case that many of us have adrenal problems.

And UK20: you tried 1% pregnenolone for a short while and some T3 at different intervals. You shot completely blind.

Everyone on this board should have:

Full thyroid profile including reverse T3 and thyroid antibodies.
Cortisol salivary analysis (4x for a day)

Most of us don’t have these things. Many have underlying adrenal and thyroid problems without realising. Even if one does successfully diagnose these things: fixing them is a complicated process even with the benefit of regular blood/saliva testing…

[Luckfax]

There’s already been loads of discussions and threads on adrenal fatigue.

A lot of us have eye catching numbers for sure, but it’s not the core problem. We don’t crash because of it. I’m interested if PFS causes a physiological reaction reflected in hypothyroid/hypoadrenal symptoms or if it’s the psychological impact of the crash itself. It doesn’t explain why so many get severe symptoms almost overnight within days or weeks of quitting the drug, as DHT is supposed to return.

Some guys have got better by treating thyroid and adrenals, but no one has been cured by it.

[bluecloud87]

You’re absolutely right about having a full thyroid panel and 4 x cortisol saliva testing. It should be a minimum to be honest but finding a doctor on the NHS in the UK that is willing to run those tests is very difficult. That is my problem, but hopefully over the next year i may be able to strike lucky with a doctor.

A number of the forum members have had these tests so hopefully they will chime in here. Don’t we have guys on here that have had every hormone test under the sun with everything coming out normal? as terrible as real adrenal fatigue and thyroid issues can be. I don’t think you can find cases with symptoms as extreme as PFS. I swear we are forever going to be going round in roundabouts with adrenal fatigue, thyroid problems, prostatitis, hypogonadism as the suspect. I am forever baffled.

Who is that nutritionist? anyone special?

[Mens_Rea]

@Luckfax

There’s already been loads of discussions and threads on adrenal fatigue.

Yes, but a limited amount of treating both thryoid and adrenal in tandem.

A lot of us have eye catching numbers for sure, but it’s not the core problem. We don’t crash because of it. I’m interested if PFS causes a physiological reaction reflected in hypothyroid/hypoadrenal symptoms or if it’s the psychological impact of the crash itself. It doesn’t explain why so many get severe symptoms almost overnight within days or weeks of quitting the drug, as DHT is supposed to return.

Some guys have got better by treating thyroid and adrenals, but no one has been cured by it.

Yes they have. There’s a guy ive spoken to on steroidolgy.com who took T3 and then a run of dexa. There’s JN who reports a decent recovery (we’ll see) and there’s guys who took T4 and stuff who have recovered too. THere’s also recoveries from other adrenal and thyroid related treatment i dont care to source it all out again for the doubters.

[Luckfax]

Most if not all threads about adrenal fatigue contain discussions about treating hypothyroid in unison.

A couple of sporadic ‘recoveries’ here and there do not merit much. Who has truly recovered from pfs from this? This roboccop guy only made a couple of posts on a BB forum and we don’t even know his symptoms, now his case is triumphantly waved around as proof that treating hypothyroid, boosting metabolic rates etc is the cure! You could just as easily point to a dozen guys who have tried treating this with PFS docs and made little progress.

Perhaps it can help symptoms. But as the root cause of a syndrome where you quit the drug, experience nothing, then maybe recover for a bit, then develop muscle loss, zerol ibido, ed etc etc? Hardly likely.

[Mens_Rea]

@Luckfax

Most if not all threads about adrenal fatigue contain discussions about treating hypothyroid in unison.

A couple of sporadic ‘recoveries’ here and there do not merit much. Who has truly recovered from pfs from this? This roboccop guy only made a couple of posts on a BB forum and we don’t even know his symptoms, now his case is triumphantly waved around as proof that treating hypothyroid, boosting metabolic rates etc is the cure! You could just as easily point to a dozen guys who have tried treating this with PFS docs and made little progress.

What would be the point of that? I’d rather try model and take clues from reported recoveries than do other random stuff blindly.

Perhaps it can help symptoms. But as the root cause of a syndrome where you quit the drug, experience nothing, then maybe recover for a bit, then develop muscle loss, zerol ibido, ed etc etc? Hardly likely.

As ive said time and time again. Our situation is clearly somewhat unique. That doesn’t preclude us from recovering by piecing together what’s went wrong. I truly believe finasteride causes stress to our systems in a myriad of ways and it goes too far to self-correct. If you fix core issues like adrenals and thyroid you give your body a full chance to recover its other compromised areas. That’s why i believe some recover - they did just enough to give their body a chance to aid itself into a successful reset.

[bluecloud87]

I can understand what you’re saying Luckfax but at the end of the day, people with thyroid or adrenal problems don’t just get better - they will carry on feeling like complete shit until they are treated properly and then there on medicines for life. So in theory it’s actually wrong to expect to just be able to recover after a period of treatment.

[martinM]

JN was taking DHT when he started on T3. He stopped taking DHT and crashed despite upping his T3 intake to outrageous levels. He’s always been supplementing other things so it’s kind of impossible to separate his success on T3 from his success on any of the other supplements he’s taking. At the end of the day he’s still taking a cocktail and adjusting it according to symptoms. This cocktail is expensive and requires extensive management.

@Mens Rea

@Luckfax

There’s already been loads of discussions and threads on adrenal fatigue.

Yes, but a limited amount of treating both thryoid and adrenal in tandem.

A lot of us have eye catching numbers for sure, but it’s not the core problem. We don’t crash because of it. I’m interested if PFS causes a physiological reaction reflected in hypothyroid/hypoadrenal symptoms or if it’s the psychological impact of the crash itself. It doesn’t explain why so many get severe symptoms almost overnight within days or weeks of quitting the drug, as DHT is supposed to return.

Some guys have got better by treating thyroid and adrenals, but no one has been cured by it.

Yes they have. There’s a guy ive spoken to on steroidolgy.com who took T3 and then a run of dexa. There’s JN who reports a decent recovery (we’ll see) and there’s guys who took T4 and stuff who have recovered too. THere’s also recoveries from other adrenal and thyroid related treatment i dont care to source it all out again for the doubters.

[Luckfax]

Plus, frankly, it seems too complex and time consuming for such a minimal boost.No doubt many of us have issues with cortisol and thyroid through blocking DHT then acquiring some unknkown androgen dysfunction. I’m not going to rush out and get extensive, regular bloods and regularly consume meds or supps at specific times of the day in order to maybe feel 15% better at most. The improvements I have made have come from time and doing nothing so far, not manipulating hormones.

[Mens_Rea]

@Luckfax

Plus, frankly, it seems too complex and time consuming for such a minimal boost.No doubt many of us have issues with cortisol and thyroid through blocking DHT then acquiring some unknkown androgen dysfunction. I’m not going to rush out and get extensive, regular bloods and regularly consume meds or supps at specific times of the day in order to maybe feel 15% better at most. The improvements I have made have come from time and doing nothing so far, not manipulating hormones.

You have acquired a bad attitude buddy. And im saying that as a friend.

15% better? Says who? The people who have did it right (albeit by luck) are reaping the rewards. Nothing is a miracle cure but you cant speculate how much you might recover from one particular avenue without trying it yourself.

Expensive? The things im talking about aren’t that expensive they just require a lot of attention to detail.

As i said everyone should have a full thyroid profile yet id say 10% have a reverse T3 reading. That’s lunacy.

[Luckfax]

@Mens Rea

@Luckfax

Plus, frankly, it seems too complex and time consuming for such a minimal boost.No doubt many of us have issues with cortisol and thyroid through blocking DHT then acquiring some unknkown androgen dysfunction. I’m not going to rush out and get extensive, regular bloods and regularly consume meds or supps at specific times of the day in order to maybe feel 15% better at most. The improvements I have made have come from time and doing nothing so far, not manipulating hormones.

You have acquired a bad attitude buddy. And im saying that as a friend.

15% better? Says who? The people who have did it right (albeit by luck) are reaping the rewards. Nothing is a miracle cure but you cant speculate how much you might recover from one particular avenue without trying it yourself.

Expensive? The things im talking about aren’t that expensive they just require a lot of attention to detail.

As i said everyone should have a full thyroid profile yet id say 10% have a reverse T3 reading. That’s lunacy.

Are you saying I have a bad attitude you cunt?

Here’s a guy who had high rt3 and cortisol, was treated by Shippen and hasn’t made any inroads:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4545

Even that other cortisol proponent m-81 is now admitting it won’t help libido or ED as they are problems of androgen resistance.

I wouldn’t say lunacy is not getting rt3 done, it’s difficult to get for some. And if you look at the tyroid function thread loads of guys have had it tested. Lunacy is taking fin when you’ve read of the dangers for example. That’s not a dig at you, just an observation.

As I’ve said I’m not against treating cortisol and thyroid, it may help in some areas. But it doesn’t address the core problem which is the dynamic force behind my worst sides.

[martinM]

@Mens Rea

Expensive? The things im talking about aren’t that expensive they just require a lot of attention to detail.

JN is/was on hgh too. That is expensive.

[Mens_Rea]

@Luckfax

@Mens Rea

@Luckfax

Plus, frankly, it seems too complex and time consuming for such a minimal boost.No doubt many of us have issues with cortisol and thyroid through blocking DHT then acquiring some unknkown androgen dysfunction. I’m not going to rush out and get extensive, regular bloods and regularly consume meds or supps at specific times of the day in order to maybe feel 15% better at most. The improvements I have made have come from time and doing nothing so far, not manipulating hormones.

You have acquired a bad attitude buddy. And im saying that as a friend.

15% better? Says who? The people who have did it right (albeit by luck) are reaping the rewards. Nothing is a miracle cure but you cant speculate how much you might recover from one particular avenue without trying it yourself.

Expensive? The things im talking about aren’t that expensive they just require a lot of attention to detail.

As i said everyone should have a full thyroid profile yet id say 10% have a reverse T3 reading. That’s lunacy.

Are you saying I have a bad attitude you cunt?

Here’s a guy who had high rt3 and cortisol, was treated by Shippen and hasn’t made any inroads:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4545

Even that other cortisol proponent m-81 is now admitting it won’t help libido or ED as they are problems of androgen resistance.

I wouldn’t say lunacy is not getting rt3 done, it’s difficult to get for some. And if you look at the tyroid function thread loads of guys have had it tested. Lunacy is taking fin when you’ve read of the dangers for example. That’s not a dig at you, just an observation.

As I’ve said I’m not against treating cortisol and thyroid, it may help in some areas. But it doesn’t address the core problem which is the dynamic force behind my worst sides.

Well, i hope i can be one of the guys who prove successful by optimising my thyroid and adrenals. That and prostatitus is pretty much all ive got left. Time is the biggest weapon i suppose.

[Luckfax]

Well good luck either way. We all want a bit of hope. I mean my life is pretty much divided into before and after finasteride now.

This thread has been pointless.

[toadstool]

FYI: As you may or may not know, my thyroid hormones and cortisol are quite bad, however I have no fatigue to speak of. I pretty much function normally except sexually… Mildly low thyroid function with very low cortisol… I tried addressing this issue before with HC and Armour… Was taking 25mg+ of HC a day, and temps would not stabilize (of course my temps are low around 97.7 on average)… Armour worked for a very short while then died off after I went on a drinking binge stupidly… However now i’m going to take a different approach to this now… I’m going to introduce T3 cynomel into the mix now. Now I havent tested rt3, but since most of my thyroid hormones are out of whack i’m just going to assume I have high rt3… I feel this is true mainly because I got some mild benefits from armour and it is primarily comprised of t4 with a little t3 and the fact that the effects went away after a while… Typically if you have high rt3 armour won’t help you or might for a brief stint like I had… In any case i’m going to try t3 and hc again, both super super low doses and hope for the best, perhaps a miracle lol…

[Mens_Rea]

@martinM

JN is/was on hgh too. That is expensive.

I believe he dropped that well before his latest “recovery” . I don’t believe HGH was a feature of his current (well, last reported) condition, but i may be wrong.

[Mens_Rea]

@Luckfax

This thread has been pointless.

Only because of the direction it’s taken. As per usual.

Did anyone even read the article? Seriously…

[Luckfax]

I am interested in the notion that the stress of a crash might put someone in adrenal fatigue. When I crashed, initially I got startled very easily, dizziness, dark circles under eyes etc. I think waking up with your cock hanging off and severe brain fog can do this.

This guy terp03 said Shippen said his high DHEA was due to the immense stress he’d been under as his symptoms took hold.

The whole domino effect of blocking dht, increasing estrgen then thyroid/adrenals being stressed does bear true, symptom wise I remember the effects of this as you are meant to experience them in the run up to my crash.