A closer look at Neurotransmitters for possible therapeutic benefits

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#50

@dragonslayer123

I hope all is well and you received your urine neurotransmitter and hormone metabolite test kit with no issues.

The first thing I recommend is not rushing into providing the sample. Just open the kit, leave the paper cards that get exposed to the urine in the zip lock plastic bag that they come in and get organized. Let it sit for a couple of days, learn the instructions and what to avoid eating prior to taking the samples. If the instructions are not followed correctly the data we get is useless because we wont be able to trust the results.

Watching this instructional video on how to provide the urine sample is a must prior to providing the sample. You can click on this link and scroll down to urine collection video. It’s called 'urine collection video" and is the 3rd one down. Ignore the salvia and blood collection videos above it because for now they are not relevant. it’s easy to follow video.

A couple of things about the video:

The video is saying that the better of the two methods is to hold the sample cards and urinate on them. DO NOT USE THIS METHOD. The video is wrong. This is not the better of the two options.

Instead use the urinate in the cup method. Use a glass cup. Clean the cup with soap and warm water. Make sure you go over the top with making sure that you wash all the soap out of the inside of the cup after cleaning it. Use clean paper towels to dry the inside of the cup down. Then urinate in the cup all the way to the near top. Dip the paper card into the cup exactly how the video shows you to do it but dip it all the way to the last black line. Directly up to the last black line and take it out of the cup. The video will show you how the card flips open and how to let it dry. Follow the instructions in the video exactly how it’s saying to let the card dry. There is four cards which means 4 samples through out the course of the day. Each time clean out the glass cup with warm water and soap and dry with clean paper towel before urinating it again for the next sample. If you have any questions about how to handle the paper cards after they are saturated in the urine and how to let the cards dry before folding them closed please let me know. I can answer all questions in vivid detail so we don’t F this up.

I will also post the written instructions that explain what not to eat prior to providing the sample. You will also have a copy of these instructions that come with the kit. I figure this is enough to digest for now and like I said don’t rush to get it done. We are better off waiting a couple of more days before we have the results and getting it right. The rush is getting the kit in the mail to get it back to ZRT after it’s completed and packaged up. Not providing the sample. No rush for this. The pre paid shipping label is a 2-3 day delivery back to ZRT so they get it timely before the sample goes bad. And ZRT tests it as soon as they get it

#51

Yes I was thinking just that. I received it on friday and was reading the instructions. Wanted to take my time with it. You sent good information for me just now and I will let you know when I send them out.

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#52

This is me %100. I can use maybe a tenth of my brain power. Can’t keep up intelligent conversations, can never think of words, socially withdrawn, don’t feel connections with my peers, tired and drained mentally all the time. If I sit and do nothing I feel fine. Yay

If anyone has been treating this group of cognitive sides , step up and share.

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#53

The more I experiment with amino acids the more I see how strongly they affect PFS for me for the good and bad

#54

Aminos have made me worse in the past so I stay away from them
Dieting either gives me diarrhea or constipation so I stay on a fairly normal diet to keep things moving. I tiny bit of metamucil and a half a multi vitamin every other day seems to do the trick.
Also I avoid cows milk, rich portions of gluten, rich portions of tomatoe and soy.
Every hormone I have tried has had a negative effect- immediately converts to estrogen, haven’t tried an AI because of the anecdotal stories of people getting worse. However i know nothing about them. Antidepressants , wellbutrin made feel like shit , low dose fluoxetine immediately gave me ed and took away my attraction to women within a week and made me feel like a zombie. So what the studies about it not having the effects of ssri at the low dose is bull shit at least for me, made me poop incredibly well but that was it, so I mmenditarly stopped.

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#55

Yea…

Aminos made me worse in some areas as well but also better in some areas. For me this clearly shows the answer lies within neurotransmitters . Not saying that I have a solution yet. But I have the problem

Which amino acids made you worse and in what areas did they make you worse ?

Also,

“Fluoxetine, sold under the brand names Prozac and Sarafem among others, is an antidepressant of the (SSRI) class”

“SSRIs increase the extracellular level of the neurotransmitter serotonin by limiting its reabsorption into the presynaptic cell”

When I increase serotonin production with
L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP I pooped a lot better. So this is what I’m talking about. We need to figure out why this is and why other areas get worse when we increase serotonin and fix the constipation

You limited serotonin’s reabsorption which in layman’s term I think this means “the serotonin hangs around the serotonin receptors longer”.

This is messing with the way things should and should not be working so I don’t think we should do this. Increasing your bodies own natural production in my opinion is the safer option . I did this with proof…

I took a urine neurotransmitter test . Then I took the amino acids and co factor that produce serotonin in the body. Then I took another urine neurotransmitter test and I was peeing out higher amounts of serotonin. So before everyone goes nuts with the “yea but that’s not telling you exactly how much serotonin is in your CNS”. Not saying it is. But it did tell me my body produced more serotonin in response to the L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP and that during this time I was pooping like the good old days

I suspected it was because most of the bodies serotonin is actually produced in the gut before “it’s taken” to the brain and that it stimulates intestinal contractions. But because you “artificially” with a horrible pharmaceutical “made your serotonin hang around longer in the brain” and achieved the same result now I’m thinking that it’s something at the receptor level with giving the serotonin receptors more serotonin that’s helping us poop better

My main point is that if EVERYONE was experimenting with this path maybe we could know way more …

And just so you know taking other amino acids put me in relapse insomnia and I felt exactly like I did when I got PFS again with the Insomnia

So I know I sound like a broken record but for me to see an almost complete reversal of the constipation after 7 years on amino acids and almost complete relapse insomnia on amino acids after 7 years this is compelling…

Not in the regard that it’s providing a clear solution but in the regard that’s it’s telling me where the problems lie at least in my own case. And possibly in others seeing that you experienced similar benefits in the digestive issues when increasing serotonin

#56

Derek and that other Guy has a lot knowledge about pfs.

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#58

@5-alpha-victim its relevant. give it a listen its not too long. They talk about instead of trt look to the neurosteroid level for PFS as allopregnanolone is severely overlooked when it comes to 5aR. Ultimately they think it must be reversable. Thats a summary

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#59

I misunderstood. I can see why it’s relevant

Interesting that both of these guys are either on or have taken Fin

They are deff knowledgeable generally speaking. I question the guy in the white hat’s decision to stay on fin for prostate health. Fin is thought to lower your over all chance of getting prostate cancer but it’s also thought to increase your over all chances of getting high grade aggressive prostate cancer. They are also making statements about PFS and if I’m following neither of them got PFS?

The guy in the white hat is also assuming we have low Allopregnanolone which I can see why seeing that Melchangi’s study found low Allopregnanolone in the CNS of the PFS group. But myself and thisisarealbummer both have high Allopregnanolone in our urine and we don’t supplement Allopregnanolone. Ronnie99 does not have high Allopregnanolone in his urine but it’s not low either. Melchangi’s study also found low
3a-diol in the CNS of the PFS group. And me and Ronnie99 both have high 3a-diol in our urine. So I don’t know I’m not sure if we are really just “low in Allopregnanolone” from the standpoint that prog is not going to 5a-DHP via 5AR and 5a-DHP is not going to Allopregnanolone via 3a-HSD. Because this is how it’s made and I’m clearly making it. Like I was telling this other guy giving me crap in another thread we can’t not be producing something that’s high In out urine. I mean it did not magically appear in our waste LOL. Guy in white hat says all we need to do is increase Allopregnanolone. Don’t think he’s right about that but either way interesting video to see these guys talking about this

#60

Yeah its a real bummer when they say they just dont understand how PFS can happen. Really just denying others experiences is pretty lame. But Dereck the main guy has really changed his tone and at least acknowledges that people can suffer from PFS. And it is really frustrating when says he hasnt talked with any of his clients who have had PFS who haven’t recovered because he charges $1000 just to talk to him for 30 minutes. I would talk to him tomorrow to share my experience if it wasnt $1000. It is also very frustrating that I listened to this guy among others that all said finasteride is safe no problem. He has changed his tone and definitely would have altered my choice of taking finasteride in the first place. No blame on him definitely my choice.
I still think a spinal tap would be very beneficial for the PFS community but what do I know.
Also my hormone sample has been delayed because I decided to drink this weekend. I dont want to mess it up.

Also also what do you think of taking progesterone as a supplemental treatment?

#61

Wow! $1000 for a 30 minute chat! :see_no_evil: is that for real?

I’d be expecting to hear the meaning of life for that price :joy:

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#62

Who is he anyway ? Why do people pay him for his information? Is he a physician?

If several of us end up having high or highish Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol in our urine and if we also have low Allopregnanolone in our CNS this would be compelling. If several of us have high or highish Allopregnanolone in our urine I want to send this info to Melchangi.

It will be very hard to accomplish but if let’s say 10 of us have high or highish Allopregnanolone in our urine and then if we could get 10 non PFS guys to have the test done and they don’t have high Allopregnanolone in their urine maybe Melchangi would be all over that to do a new research study with. That’s my ultimate objective with this. Wishful thinking but I never thought I would even get this far to get someone else to get this done .

Also if you have high or highish Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol in your urine maybe the foundation would pay to have some more volunteers to get this done so that we can see if it’s a pattern amongst a lot of us

That’s good that you delayed it. I’m going to post the diet instructions just to make sure that we are on the same page with the things to avoid prior to taking the samples

I read lightattheends Progesterone supplementation thread years ago. I did try it very briefly and literally felt nothing from it for the better or the worse. Seeing that others have claimed success from cycling progesterone it is something that I have always thought about revisiting. Maybe some day I’ll trial progesterone at a high dosage and with a different hopefully better progesterone supplement.

Have you ever tried it ?

#63

LOL yea this is insane.
He’s an expert on PFS because he takes fin and does not get PFS from it. Makes no sense

#64

Yeah its for real 30 minutes for $1000. if you go to his site moreplatemoredates. Hes like a fitness coach or something I honestly have no idea. He just comes across as very knowledgeable when it comes to steroids and testosterone and all that. I only came across him and others by researching finasteride before taking it.

#65

I sent in my samples today

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#66

Awesome!

Did all the instructions make sense ?

Fingers crossed for high Allopregnanolone and 3-adiol. High testosterone and epitestosterone would be nice too.

#67

Well they got my samples but are refusing to process them because I live in California. They say I need a doctors referral. I got a refund. Major bummer.

#68

If you can find one that would process the results without a doctors referral I will do it if its not too expensive. ZRT labs need doctors referral for people living in California and New York which doesnt make any sense.

#69

I seen your post yesterday. I called them. This is absolutely ridiculous. I put a lot of time into every detail of this so it wouldn’t get messed up. So I’m kicking my self for missing that ZRT won’t test the sample if it’s coming from a CA resident. WTF would they even send it to you. I mean it’s another indication to me that ZRT is trust worthy because they are familiar with every states law and know enough about what they are doing to know that if they tested that sample they violated a BS CA law. But still I’m pissed that they would waste someone’s time like that even sending it to a CA resident if they knew that as soon as they got your sample they planned on telling you that you needed a doctors order. What did they expect you to do run out and get a doctors order just so they could test your sample that they already had? Makes no sense why they would have expected you to do that

Let’s not give up though. Let’s wait until you have the refund and figure out how to get around this . I’m working on other ideas

#70

I got the refund

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