7 YEARS OF POISON -- Recovery progress

  1. Where are you from (country)?
    CANADA
  2. How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)
    GOOGLE
  3. What is your current age, height, weight?
    28, 5"7", 150LBS
  4. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?
    YES-HEAVY WEIGHT TRAINING, SOME CARDIO
  5. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?
    MIX OF VEGETABLES, GRAINS, MEATS-PRETTY HEALTHY OVERALL
  6. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?
    HAIRLOSS/THINNING
  7. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?
    7 YEARS
  8. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?
    21-JULY 2004
  9. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?
    28-MARCH 2011
  10. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
    COLD TURKEY
  11. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?
    PROPECIA
  12. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?
    1MG/DAY
  13. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?
    IMMEDIATELY HAD WATERY EJACULATE AND SLOWLY THE LIBIDO WANED-EVER SO SLOWLY-UNTIL THE VERY END WHERE IT LITERALLY DISAPPEARED LIKE A CANDLE FLAME BEING BLOWN OUT
  14. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[X ] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[X ] Erectile Dysfunction
[X ] Complete Impotence
[X ] Loss of Morning Erections
[X ] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[X ] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
Reduced Ejaculate
Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[X ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[X ] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[X ] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Confusion
[X ] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[X ] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
Slurring of Speech
[X ] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ X] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[XX ] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[X ] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
Testicular Pain
[X ] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[X ] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
[X ] Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
[X ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
Prostate pain
Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Increased hair loss
[X ] Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?
    HORNY GOAT WEED, CLOMID, ARIMIDEX, HARD WORKOUTS, CLEAN DIET,

  2. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

NO BLOOD TESTS PRIOR OR DURING MY YEARS ON THAT POISON. AFTERWARDS, MY TOTAL TESTOSTERONE WAS RIDICULOUSLY LOW, NOT EVEN ON THE CHART, AND LH/FSH WERE BOTH AROUND 2, WITH HIGH LEVELS OF ESTROGEN

  1. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

  2. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

I NOTICED HAIR THINNING IN MY LATE TEENS AND EARLY 20’S AND WOULD JOKE ABOUT HOW BALD I WAS BECOMING. A FEW FRIENDS OF MINE AT THE TIME DISCUSSED POSSIBLE OPTIONS AND PROPECIA WAS ONE OF THEM. I SPOKE TO A SPECIALIST DOCTOR WHO ASSURED ME THE PILLS WERE SAFE AND HAD NO LONG TERM RISKS AND COULD ACTUALLY LOWER YOUR PROSTATE CANCER RISK–I THOUGHT THIS WAS GREAT BC I WOULD SAVE MY HAIRLINE AND REDUCE MY CANCER RISK.

WHEN ON THE DRUG, I FELT FINE (AT LEAST I THOUGHT I DID) AND HAD A VERY HIGH LIBIDO AND NO TROUBLES WITH SLEEP, DEPRESSION, OR SEXUAL PERFORMANCES. I MET A WONDERFUL WOMAN AND WE HAD A GREAT RELATIONSHIP AND I WAS ABLE TO PERFORM MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY, AND BASICALLY ALWAYS WANTED TO BE INTIMATE. IN 2009 I HAD ONE EPISODE OF E.D, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS STRESS AND DID NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THAT AND THINGS WERE FINE AFTERWARDS.

HOWEVER, JUST THIS LAST YEAR IN EARLY 2011 I EXPERIENCED , LITERALLY TOTAL IMPOTENCE AND A COMPLETE LACK OF LIBIDO, INSTANTLY. IN DECEMBER 2010 I WAS DOING GREAT, LOVING LIFE, AND BY FEBRUARY, I WAS IMPOTENT AND HAD A VERY LOW SPERM COUNT AND NO SEX DRIVE. AT THE TIME I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND THOUGHT THAT IT WAS STRESS RELATED. A MONTH LATER I FOUND THIS SITE AND I BEGAN TO PANIC.

THE NEXT MONTH THAT FOLLOWED LEAD ME DOWN THE DARKEST, MOST DEEPEST DEPRESSION IMAGINEABLE AND I COULD NOT TELL ANYONE BECAUSE I WAS SO ASHAMED, SO UPSET, AND SO DESPERATE. IT CAME TO THE POINT THAT I FELT I REALLY NEEDED TO END MY LIFE. I WAS IN THE PRIME OF MY LIFE, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I COULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH MY PARTNER, A PERSON WHOM I ADORED AND WHO ADORED ME. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT I FELT COMPLETELY DEAD,LIKE A PRIMAL URGE COMPLETELY DISAPPEARED AND I WAS LEFT WITH THIS NUMB, LIFELESS APPENDAGE THAT MADE ME SICK TO LOOK OUT ALL OF A SUDDEN. AS I WAS SAYING, THE DEPRESSION THAT FOLLOWED NEARLY LEAD ME TO THE END OF MY LIFE, BUT LUCKILY I SOUGHT MEDICAL HELP AND GOT THROUGH THAT PART OF MY LIFE.

THE MONTHS THAT FOLLOWED HOWEVER WERE JUST AS BAD-AFTER A FEW WEEKS OF ANTI DEPRESSANTS, I DECIDED THAT I WOULD TAKE NO MORE PILLS THAT WOULD MESS ME UP EVEN FURTHER AND STARTED SEEING VARIOUS DOCS IN THE SUMMER THAT BRUSHED ME OFF AND TOLD ME MY ISSUES WERE DEPRESSION RELATED—OF NOTE, I HAVE NEVER SUFFERED FROM DEPRESSION IN THE PAST AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST OUT GOING, HAPPY GO LUCKY JOKER IN THE WORLD, AND I REALLY FELT THAT I HAD THE WORLD BY THE BALLS SO TO SPEAK. ANYWAYS, THE SUMMER OF 2011 WAS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT AND I LITERALLY CRIED EVERY SINGLE DAY, BUT TRIED TO HIDE THIS FROM EVERYONE. ITS AMAZING HOW YOU CAN FAKE YOUR WAY THROUGH A DAY AND SMILE AND THEN COME HOME AND CONTEMPLATE SUICIDE FOR A FEW HOURS AS THE ONLY OPTION TO THE MESS YOU HAVE CREATED.

THIS FALL I SAW DR SHIPPEN WHO NOW HAS ME TAKING CLOMID 3X WEEK 15MG AS WELL AS A VERY LOW DOSE OF ARIMIDEX…MY TESTOSTERONE INCREASED TO 23 (8 TO 28 NORMAL) AND ESTROGEN IS ABOUT 30 (NORMAL 15-30) AND LH/FSH ARE STILL HOVERING AROUND ONLY A 2 WHICH IS VERY LOW. I FEEL LIKE MY ZEST FOR LIFE HAS DIMINISHED SO VERY MUCH AND MY RELATIONSHIP WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY MY SIGNIFICANT OTHER HAVE SUFFERED SO VERY MUCH BC I JUST FEEL SO DEAD, SO HOPELESS RIGHT NOW.

I HAVE BEEN WORKING OUT VERY HARD AND AM NOW STRONGER THAN I EVER WAS WHILE ON PROPECIA, BUT MY PENIS IS STILL VERY LIMP, MY SCROTUM IS VERY TIGHT, AND I HAVE TERRIBLE E.D AND PREMATURE EJACULATION ISSUES AS WELL AS BASICALLY NO LIBIDO–THIS IS LITERALLY KILLING ME SLOWLY, AND I HAVE STILL CONTEMPLATED THE MOST HAENOUS ENDINGS IF THINGS DIDNT IMPROVE. I JUST WANT SO BADLY TO FEEL ALIVE AGAIN, FEEL HORNY AGAIN, BE ABLE TO FEEL LIKE A MAN AGAIN AND NOT ONLY HAVE SEX, BUT ACTUALLY ‘WANT SEX’ AND ENJOY IT, AS WELL AS LIFE. I FEEL LIKE I HAVE NO ONE TO TALK TO ABOUT THIS BC IT IS SO NEW AND HUMILIATING AND JUST FUCKED UP, SO I HOPE TO GOD YOU ALL CAN BE OF SOME HELP.

I WILL CONTINUE TO LET YOU KNOW HOW MY TREATMENT IS PROGRESSING. I HAVE FORGOTTEN SOME DETAILS BUT WILL FILL YOU ALL IN LATER.

I HAVE FOUND SOME HOPE READING SOME OTHERS ISSUES AND RECOVERIES ON HERE, AND THAT IS WHY I FINALLY DECIDED TO JOIN AFTER NEARLY A YEAR OF LURKING, SO TO SPEAK.

THANKS

Welcome and thanks for sharing your story. Please keep us posted on how your treatment progresses.

On a side note, please refrain from TYPING ALL IN CAPITALS because its HARD ON THE EYES TO READ and is the equivalent of SHOUTING in cyberspace.

Hope you will see continued progress. For many, symptoms do tend to improve over time.

Cheers.

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPITALS…
Mew, have you endured the same types of symptoms, and if so were any treatments successful whatsoever? Have you recovered?

do you think its true that once you have these issues, the limp penis, all the changes, that it cannot improve? I read one guys post saying the only way to get better was to quit the drug before the side effects started…i pray thats not true…

is it normal to just feel, emotionally, just totally disconnected from everyone. All I can do everyday is look at old pictures and literally cry about how great my life was and how good I felt. Now I just feel like a fucking alien, like I am soo different from everyone else and no one can possibly understand what it feels like or what I am going through. I have lost friends, and maybe even more as this progresses. Sex still feels so, bland, or blunted, …once your horniness goes, the whole experience of sex becomes very distant bc you dont actually desire it, so that great connection you have with the person is really weakened during the act and I dont know how to re create it. Will we ever really just want sex again>? I day dream of a day when I am just going to wake up and want to really have sex so badly again and actually be able to perform and enjoy it…some of you guys have had to have felt this and gotten better, right>?

sorry that last post was not productive, just needed to vent…however, in all seriousness, has anyone had these types of symptoms like myself and just recovered eventually…even if its been years, any positive news would be great…Please let me know I have recieved a few personal messages from a couple guys and do appreciate it, but they unfortunately seem stuck in the same spot as myself…

Hey,

Your story sounds very similar to mine. I was on propecia for 8 years, I too was that happy social outgoing guy and slowly the drug turned me into a depressed, anxious, anti-social person.

For me it was the cognitive symptoms that made finally start looking for a cause. At first all the doctors told me it was stress related depression and that I had an anxiety disorder, which of course all sounded odd as my life was not very stressful and my family has never had an mental health issues. I was offered anti-depressants, but refused and kept looking for a cause. I finally found this site and had that “Ah-ha” moment!

I am now booked to see an endocrinologist in early Feb and had my bio-available testosterone tested recently, which came back on the lower end of the normal scale (7.2 (range is 3.5 - 19). I still have not tested all the other related hormones, but I will do this with the endo.

I have been off of propecia for just over three months and stuff is starting to improve slowly. If yuo ask most guys around here, it seems like time is the best cure and does resolve many symptoms. In my case, my cognitive issues are slowly getting better, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst, my anxiety and memory problems are now a 6, compared to a 1, just 4 months ago. As for the sexual problems, for me they were not too bad, some decreased libido, minor ED, some physical changes, but everything luckly still works. I fear that sexually it will be much longer before things really improve.

Just stay positive and know that you already have made the right move to come off of propecia, so now it will just take time for your system/hormones to re-balance.

Gino

yeah i can feel you 12345.
i lost my manhood.
my confidence is low because i feel so much different than other guys.
they talk about girls looking at them and making dirty jokes but i am not able to make jokes.
maybe 1 or 2 but my creativity is so affected.
i look at girls too but i cant enjoy looking them not like i watched them before taking propecia.
no desire.

remember that time .
its friday night.
the elecricity hovers in the air.
you are going to have a good night.
you want to go to club or somewhere .
after then you become hungry and your friends and you decide to eat something.
its already 3 am.
then you come home maybe with friends or alone but it doesnt matter.
then you just WANT to chill out .
you call your friends or talk to them when you sit next to them about what you
experienced that night.
maybe you say : did you see the brunette with the big tits which was so drunk .
her face was normal -her butt was juicy - but her molons were WOW :wink:
then your friend tells you , he knows her.
you are talking about her character and if shes a slut or not…

you are soo snoopy.
the adrenaline is so high you cant sleep now.
you only can think of the brunette how it would be if she was here right now.
you would kiss every cm of her body .

OF COURSE you would ask her for coming with you for a drink but you lost sight of her :wink:

i can imagine i had those feelings over 1 year ago.
then i took propecia.

everything is gonna be alright friends.
stay positive !

D…

tell me things have gotten better for you please

what is your status

read my thread

I read it man…and im sorry, i do know how you feel.

can someone please read this thread and tell me in all honesty that you recovered, that you got better…geez i would take getting ride of the depression and suicidal shit and deal with the libido and sex things later…although I know that has a lot to do with the depression also…

any thoughts?

what the hell is this? I thought we were dealing with some serious health issues?

i am allowed to post this stuff.
i am suffering too.
if you want to be depressed 24 h a day just go on.
i cant be depressed 24 h a day !
the stuff i posted is one of the only ones thas has nothing do to with: "hell, hell, darkness, depresssion, suicide thoughts, negativity, deamons "

but why i am answering you ?!
because i can feel your pain spriken.
i can feel you … god i am getting melancholic again … :frowning:
i dont know you… but i can understand how a man feels when he looses his manhood…

any progress with our conditions guys?

I think I have better erections, but still no libido, and refractory period is way longer…still have ED no doubt but sometimes i can keep it up for 10 minutes or so

so ive been taking clomid for two months a small dose 3x a week and some arimidex, and lots of vitamins, supplements, horny goat weed also…i ve noticed i am way stronger than ever before while on finasteride…i only weight 150 lbs but not bench close to 170 where my previous high was only 135! i guess i never had high testosterone to see what i could really do…i work out hard everyday, and a few days ago i had good sex with a strong erection…not as strong as usual, but there were like three days where i had decent erections through the day and shot out a good load of ejaculate, though half was watery…i wasnt very horny though thats the thing and the depression about not being horny, not being able to fuck is still quite high…
not sure why things were good those days…but they were better…hope thats a good thing

ok here is an update…im not sure why but a few days ago i felt pretty decent for a couple of days…i am taking clomid 12 mg three times a week and some arimidex…i also take maca powder, horny goat week, vitamin D and some other natural protein powders, etc…i work out with heavy weights every day, and i am lifting way more than i could ever lift in the last 7 years…my strength and muscle size has really increased over the last two months, probably bc more testosteron in the blood…i have also noticed a really nice amount of belly fat which should nto be there, maybe the Estrogen is getting high?
anyways, a couple days ago i had some great erections and actually had decent sex…although i was battling some premature ejaculation urges, i did keep it hard and satisfied my partner, although my ‘orgasm’ wasnt all that great…its wierd bc i had a good erection but i really wasnt very horny still…anyways, now things have sort of gone back to ‘normal’ where my penis is not as hard, seems more flaccid and smaller overall…i have no idea why things got ‘better’ for a short time, i had been out and drinking too–something i do very little of nowadays…
maybe things can improve slowly, here and there…

the mental side effects still persist–the constant thinking and ruminating in my brain about ‘why im not horny, why my dick is so fucked up,’ etc…but there have been ppl who have improved so lets keep hoping…‘MrMoskowitz’ seems to think only time will help.

PS does anyone know what will happen when i stop taking clomid? will all my testosterone gains just plummet, leaving me right back to square one and weak again?

who prescribed clomid and Arimidex?
I hope you have read my posts about Arimidex. It is aromatase inhitor and any enzyme inhibitors are not good (in my oponions after seeing many people suffering from arimidex).some have got joint pain, muscle apin and other issues, presistantly. please go on messo and musclechat room and do a search on arimidex sides.

has anyone heard of ball zingers?

do they work?

i ordered a ring of power…any thoughts?

Well known scams. There are threads on these in Natural Supplement section.

after much research ive come to some conclusion…does this make sense?
Propecia inhibits 5ar so we have way less dht…now we also have less dht metabolites…this results in shrinking penis and numbness over time bc we need lots of dht to keep size…also prevents hair loss, prostate growth and increased estrogen yada yada fucking yada…so once we stop i really feel that all other hormones might look normal…especially testosterone…but the 5ar enzyme is still very low so we are not getting the needed dht and metabolites from it…in my case the clomid im taking has increased my T…im stronger and more muscular but done nothong for my shrinkage and libido…probably bc there is still not enough dht and metabolies flowing in the blood?

So…is there any way to measure 5ar anf then to increase its production and or activity? If there is i really think we could be cured so to speak? I know its easier to stop the body from doing something then making it so something however…
Also, if our penises have shrunken bc of no dht for a long time isnt it reasonable to think that that tissue will regenerate with time and dht returning? Even if it takes years to do so???

Anyone with knowledge please respond

All these things have been looked at on this forum

3-adiol-G is a good 5AR activity marker. Dr Crisler uses a metabolite ratio that is an even better indicator of 5ARII activity.

As for the bit about penis size - yes and no. Dr Goldstein believes the penis can rehabilitate so long as it isn’t in its “new” state for many years. I think the same, although getting back to 100% may be difficult after severe atrophy and cell death. My conclusion is, and seemingly is from my personal experience thus far, is that there is scope for decent rehabilitation but if you have really bad shrinkage getting a consistent full size again might be hard.

All that said, the main issue is getting your 5AR activity back to where it was (assuming your bloods indicate this is indeed the case). Easier said than done.