5AR Promoters DHT

General Discussion
#1

So there are all these substances that can inhibit 5ar from drugs to vitamins to foods. Why couldn’t the opposite be true?
and if DHT blood levels are in normal range then would something that promotes 5ar expression even help?
But then why do people say 5ar inhibitors make them worse?
So are we no longer looking at the 5ar enzyme, but the androgen receptor itself?
So is the 5ar enzyme now somewhat irrelevant, or Propecia’s main known mechanism of action in lowering DHT.

Pulled from this website from alteredlife,

I may take some flack for this, but I don’t think it is a 5AR problem at all. Yes, we took a 5AR inhibitor that initially brought our DHT levels down, but since that time my DHT levels have been good. The first time I got mine checked is was an 18 with normal being 16-79. Yes, it was the low side of normal, but still in the green. I made an appointment with an Endocrinologist which was 3 months out. During that time, I looked up natural ways to raise DHT and found a food that you could eat that raise 5AR activity. I did this for the time waiting on the appointment and when I went, they rechecked my DHT and it was 26. Raised 8 points and guess what? Sex drive was worse. My theory was and is that our bodies are like a car engine and our androgens are like the fuel. Break one or more parts on that engine and it doesn’t run right. Adding more fuel to the intake isn’t going to fix it. It’s going to make it run worse, which is why the sexual dysfunction gets worse.

#2

It’s got nothing to do with the 5AR enzymes they are still working, it’s to do with the receptor sites being switched off due to over-expression of the androgen receptors, it’s a self protection mechanism that happened when DHT flooded back into already hypersensitive receptors at 333% the normal rate, it really is an accident waiting to happen. I don’t know why people have bad reactions to 5AR inhibitors, so far I’ve had no problems except from excessive sweating but I’m only testing my own theory out by using them. If this really is at a genetic level then these foods shouldn’t have any impact on how someone feels but they do so that tells you that this may be very much reversible. Yes you are correct adding more androgens will only further increase silencing probably the reason people feel a worsening of symptoms after masturbating.

So far I’ve been taking
Lions Mane
Curcumin
Zinc double dose
Green tea with soy sauce 4 cups a day

#3

I agree with you guys. How can you have perfect plasma levels if DHT but have androgenic hair stop growing. I lost half the hair on my chest and abdomen. It didnt fall out I just buzzed it a few years ago and it never frew back lol. The thing is…if we get worse off by increasing hormones would we be better of by reducing them again? I have hear a couple crazy stories where guys were claiming they got 100% better after. Getting back on the 5ar inhibitor they were on ? Of course that story was the case claimed from a guy who took Saw Palmetto…

#4

This is a great theory that makes total sense. Unfortunately it is wrong. It will not become right if we repeat it ad infinitum.

#5

Who was this person? any links

#6

Anything and everything should be tried and tested, it’s only through trial and error that we may find something strong that mitigates the sides. We have went the hormone route it has failed religiously so why do you propose that this wouldn’t work or show a decrease in symptoms what is your take on this do explain I’m very open on suggestions and dialogue.

#7

I haven’t proposed anything of the kind.

#8

I apologize I must have picked it up wrong what did you mean by “unfortunately it is wrong. It will not become right if we repeat it ad infinitum.”?

#9

Read the link where I explain in detail what I mean. There is irrefutable evidence contradicting this theory, hence the theory must be wrong. This doesn’t mean I have a better theory. I just know this theory is wrong, or incomplete, which is the same thing.

“In my opinion”

P.S. Having said that, it might still be beneficial for us as a community from a strategic point of view to come up with a coherent theory that makes sense at least in theory, even if we know it is wrong, so that we are able to attract funding to test the theory and hopefully come up with a better one. We should still keep it in mind though, when devising studies, that the theory is inadequate.

#10

So you think that anyone of these mechanisms could induce PFS

Cholestenone → 5α-Cholestanone
Progesterone → 5α-Dihydroprogesterone
3α-Dihydroprogesterone → Allopregnanolone
3β-Dihydroprogesterone → Isopregnanolone
Deoxycorticosterone → 5α-Dihydrodeoxycorticosterone
Corticosterone → 5α-Dihydrocorticosterone
Cortisol → 5α-Dihydrocortisol
Aldosterone → 5α-Dihydroaldosterone
Androstenedione → 5α-Androstanedione
Testosterone → 5α-Dihydrotestosterone
Nandrolone → 5α-Dihydronandrolone

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#11

I am afraid I am not the right person to ask. From the little I know about biology, I don’t think PFS is a matter of a “chemical imbalance” due to an insufficiency of any or all of these hormones and neurosteroids. In other words, I don’t think replacing or supplementing with these could fix PFS, as the insufficiency is likely a consequence and not a cause of PFS. I do believe however that there are epigenetic changes impacting the production of these hormones, including but not limited to 5ar.

#12

That first one was a bad example of dht blood levels. I would say his were still on the low side actually.
Here’s a better one. Now this guys dht levels are above range, I saw someone else mention that recently too.

My Blood Results (Quint) – DHT/E2

So could this be lack of dht binding to androgen receptors and thats why they are upregulated or more sensitized? To try to accommodate for this lack of binding? or make do with less?
So the androgen receptor is also silenced? its upregulated and silenced at the same time?
How silenced are we talking about? is there a percentage on this? isn’t this another form of downregulated?
Ill look at this more later. Thanks.