30 Year Old Australian, please have a look at my story...

Member Stories
#1

  1. Where are you from (country)? Australia

  2. How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?) google

  3. What is your current age, height, weight? 30,75kg,182cm

  4. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise? Not regularly

  5. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)? Mid of the range diet

  6. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)? Slight diffuse hair loss

  7. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)? 10 months

  8. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride? 27

  9. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit? 28 August 2010

  10. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)? Stupidly Cold turkey

  11. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic? Proscar

  12. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)? 1 mg p/d

  13. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects? 5 months

  14. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[ x] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[ ] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[ x] Loss of Morning Erections
[ x] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[x ] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[ x] Watery Ejaculate
[ x] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ x] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[ x] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[x ] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[ x] Confusion
[ x] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[ x] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[ x] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ x] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[ ] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[ ] Testicular Pain
[ ] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[ ] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ x] Weight Gain
[ x] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[ x] Muscle Wastage
[ x] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain
[ x] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[ x] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ xx] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[ x] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ ]x Increased hair loss
[ x] Frequent urination
[ x] Lowered body temperature

[ ] Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug? Arimidex, Ketoconozole for extreemly high cortisol

  2. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)? I will make sure i get them posted soon.

  3. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

  4. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

Okay so I’ve just turned 30 and 3 years ago i never thought i would be in this position. I took Proscar for very slight hair loss, and was fine for 4/5 months. Something just clicked inside me one day, my face blew up with water, i started gaining weight rapidly around my stomach that wasn’t there before. water retention all over my body, and i was a very lean guy pre fin, it’s devastating.

My libido just went, i was not into sex or masturbation unless i really forced myself. Lost all morning erections, spontaneous one’s gone.

My pubic hair went defused, all the hair on my head including sides diffused to the point where i had to shave my head on a 0.

( I realise this is not a hair loss forum but this was a TE type hair loss )

I started to grow body hair where i hadn’t before such as chest, longer leg and arm hair. All this while my beard pubic and under arm hair got more diffused.

I decided to stay on it as i thought the symptoms would pass and stayed on a lower dose for about 6 more months! Stupid. Then got off fin.

I went to an endocrinologist here in Melbourne, explained my symptoms he tested me and believe it or not all my blood work was more or less in range.

I went to a Natropath to get some saliva samples for Test, Estrogen, DHEA, Cortisol, Thyroid etc. Full hormonal panel.

I will post them when i get home as i don’t have them here.

Basically…

TESTOSTERONE - Very low
ESTROGEN - 2 1/2 As high vs Normal Range
CORTISOL - All points of the day off the charts high
DHEA - First test was low
THYROID - No problems

So Even though my Estrogen was extremely high in a saliva test, in a blood it wasnt, same with the Test, very low on salvia, normal range blood. All this makes any Dr not take you seriously, I mean they only work off bloods, and after having these rapid symptoms after 4 month’s of being on finasteride i knew it was the cause!

I went back to him, he told me i was crazy and that there was nothing he could do for me, it was a really frustrating and unpleasant experience.

My natropath and the internet was my only hope.

My first point of call was getting the estrogen down:

DIM
DIET
ZINC

Had no luck.

I went over to Thailand and bought some Arimidex (Proper) Felt good on it but when i got tested again both blood and saliva, same thing normal blood but INCREASE in Saliva, and Normal Test blood, but Low Test Saliva!

On the Arimidex i got my erections back, sex was good, i got a bit of acne that i hadn’t had in years, and some of my TE type hair loss grew back temporally.
Once i got off though, back to normal, still extreme water retention, bloated, no sex drive, sparse pubic hair. Brain fog, forgetfulness to the point i forgot my pin number for my bank card!

I thought maybe its because i have high cortisol, maybe i couldn’t flush the estrogen out my liver because of my cortisol being so high, i had tried reducing it the whole time with suppliments my Natropath gave me, but it wouldn’t move

I decided to do something drastic as i couldn’t sleep, i was over weight compared to normal, my hair wouldn’t grow anywhere but my legs, chest and arms, i thought that it had to be the cortisol causing all this. So i got on Ketoconozole which is powerful and reduces cortisol.

I stayed on it for 4 months

A lot of my symptoms changed after 3/4 weeks of being on Ketoconozole, I was tired but i could think clearer, I was more alert, I could sleep better, all my hair grew back on my head to Pre Fin stage, my pubic hair came back.

But with Ketoconozole it suppresses your test so i lost my libido completely, to the point where i wasn’t even into sex with my girlfriend or masturbating.

Now she was understanding but it affected us to the point that we grew apart and we broke up, I was devastated.

I got my saliva test re done and my cortisol was back in perfect range though, so i thought i had acheived something.

I was very bloated and full of water, but my hair was back i was thinking sharper i have not felt as good as i do now since pre fin, so some of the symptoms were definately cortisol related.

So i have been off Ketoconozole for 3 months, now all my symptoms are coming back 10 fold.

I go through cycles though, i mean i will rid myself of water in my body ( Fluid Retention ) i will feel amazing for about 4 days then i will crash and all the estrogen sides come back, flacid penis, bloated to the point i experience refulx, brain fog, extreme anxiety, insomnia, cold hands cold feet. Hair goes all fine stops growing.

Then my body will correct itself and i think I’m getting better only for this to go on every few days.

Some days my face is so swollen i dont even feel like going to work out of embarasment, its i think histamine, as people with Estrogen Dominance tend to have high histaimine levels, but even taking an anti-histamine doesnt help.

So not knowing what else i could do i decided to go on 7-Keto DHEA as it doesnt convert into hormones, i definately have felt better on it, i’ve lost weight on it, my energy i can think more clearly more often, brain fog lifted, go through stages of being quite horny but then the same old cycle kicks back in ( estrogen )

Now i know you might see this a typical story, regarding estrogen / test imbalance.

BUT why doesnt it show up on bloods, but on Saliva it does.

What is my next step, i know it’s hard without seeing all my results yet, but why do i go through stages where i feel like i am better for a few days then i crash again, i have been tested for MRI’s, food intollerances, thyroid etc. All fine.

I have just had a test for histamine so I am waiting to get that this week.

Why are there others on this board with a lot more out of range E2 on a blood test who don’t have the physical symptoms i have, such as massive water retention, bloated, sparse pubic hair, diffuse hair loss that was fixed completely with Ketoconzole, only for me to gradually get worse every week.

Is this a histamine problem, because i also well up and feel worse after some foods, i get a runny nose and sleep straight away after meals sometimes, and i have been tested for food allergies intollerances.

My Natropath said my liver is bad, that i need to clean it get rid of the estrogen, could this be the case, is my body flushing it out sometimes and thats why i feel better for a few days and all my symptoms go away, including the physical ones?

I do need to improve my diet, my digestive problems have only started the last 3 months.

What do i need to do from here in the last 2 years i have lost:

MY GIRLFRIEND
MY BUSINESS

I feel like i am close to fixing this and i know a lot of you have a lot more serious sexual sides but the main ones endure is when my so called “cycle happens is”

WATER RETENTION
BLOATED
SHUNTED HAIR GROWTH
BRAIN FOG
TIREDNESS
NO SPONTANEOUS ERECTIONS
WATERY SEAMEN
DIGESTION PROBLEMS
COLD HANDS AND FEET
ITCHY EYES
ITCHY SKIN
BLOOD FEELS LIKE ITS BURNING
PUFFY FACE
DIFFUSE PUBIC HAIR
NO LIBIDO

Should i concentrate on the Liver? Could it be that simple? ( I have noticed it becoming worse recently as i have been having big weekends for weddings and 30ths ) I usually look and feel better the day after and the Monday of a weekend i have drank and then i crash and all the below symptoms take over.

Should i get on Aromasin??

Chinese medicine for liver?

What are your thoughts and has anyone on here actually corrected E2 / Test imbalance? If so how?

What does it mean that my results contradict themselves blood vs Saliva?

Are there any Dr’s in Melbourne or Sydney that have dealt with PFS??

I would love to hear your thoughts on my case, and thank you for taking the time to read it.

Declan

#2

PM me. I’m from melbourne. I can fill you in.

#3

Alright so i saw my Dr today, and it seems that I have excessively high histamine, the range is 28-52 i came in at 63, I have just started progestorone cream 3 days ago, trying to address the estrogen issues.

It seem evident that estrogen has rasied my histamine levels through the roof which is giving me even more sides.

Am i inclined to think that if i use progestorone cream i will reduce my estrogen which will in turn reduce my histamine levels?

Has anyone here had excessively hight histamine levels, or know’s how to bring them down?

#4

wow, you are my typical example of what I beleive the side effects are doing to us. Those appear to be very high histamine levels.

Has anyone been prescribed Quercitin or a very powerful anti-histamine?

#5

I’ve been using this protein powder for a while for my digestion, defintley helps a lot. Contains Quercetin.

xymogen.com/products/product … px?pid=155

How’s things going for you Declan?

#6

Was the histamine test blood or urine?

#7

tim1911, I read many of your previous posts, even years ago. You were on the right track with histamine…what derailed your theory?

1 Like
#8

I got tested and was in range. I am thinking of testing again, hopefully some more people will test.

#9

Please search the forum I believe there was a guy who claimed (around 2008 or 2010) to have recovered first time by using Quercitin but he started fin again and don’t know if he recovered second time .
also look here viewtopic.php?t=4531

Maybe again histamine is the effect of estrogen dominance and not the cause of PFS, not sure.

#10

I take a strong antihistamine for sleep. The only thing I can do is, makes you tired and help you to fall asleep. It does not alter the sleep struckture, like normal sleeping drugs, what is a great benefit.
Benefits: Seems to help against panikattacks, makes me tired, against neusea in combintation with Vit. B6.
Sides for me none.
Does nothing on libido or ED or any other sexual sides.
querecetin and cucurium are acting on the signaling of the AR…

#11

Hi fellas,

Thank’s for showing interest, really appreciate it.

I just wanted to give you a basic time frame of the version of events for me, and then i will give you a run down of what I am currently trying.

October 2009 - Had a bad breakup was very anxious and depressed at the time i started , was slightly diffusing so decided to take fin, a few freinds were on it and they were fine.

Jan 2010 - Was going along fine on fin, had no side effects in the first 4 months on it, until one weekend after i went out woke up on the sunday went to work that week, my face started blowing up, like i was alergic to something.

My body filled with fluid, all my hair started to fall out on my head in a matter of 3 weeks.

My face went grey, I had puffy eyes, with dark circles under them.

I could’nt sleep, i was highly strung, i was itchy and i couldn’t concentrate on anything at work, was strugling to get sentances out properly.

I started to grow body hair on my arms, leg hair got longer, grew slight chest hair, I was never a hairy person, yet at 27 i started to grow new hair on my body, while my pubic and hair on my head fell out.

This happened all of a sudden in the space of 4 weeks, most of the symptoms all came on at once though.

I was shocked, stressed out at what was going on with my body. I lost all sexual desire and was really emotional.

I kept reading up on Hairloss talk and those sites and all the advice i was given was you go through these stages etc etc, if you stay on it you wll be fine…

Anyway stayed on for a few more months and then got off, stupidly cold turkey.

August 2010 i got off fin.

Went to an endo, all bloods within range, went to a natropath, my estrogen was 2 and half times the normal limit and my test below normal limit.

Started Dim, and took zinc.

No improvement.

Body was still full of water, very bloated, started to get fat around my waste, and upper torso.

Went on a strict diet, got off Alcohol, caffine, drank plenty of water.

Stayed on this for probably a year with no improvement.

Sept - 2011 - Went to thailand, got some Arimidex, came home, started taking it, at this point even before Arimidex my sex drive was better, i was never not able to get erections, even just after fin, but my desire for sex wasn’t there.

Arimidex, i started to get acne, i did feel better while i was on it, but none of my symptoms went down, bloating, puffy face eyes, hair loss ( Head, pubic hair ) I have to specify that my hair loss was not MPB, it was TE type hairloss from a hormonal reaction.

I still could not concentrate on anything, I was emotional, stressed, had adrenilin serges, would wake up feeling like groundhog day.

When i got off Arimidex, i got even worse, was even more bloated, all of my hair had now fallen out so i shaved my head on a zero.
Face was ridicoulous to the point where my friends were like what the fuck is happening, you are allergic to something.

Anyway, i went and got a saliva test done for cortisol and DHEA, cortisol was off the charts, like super high at all times of the day, this was obviously contributing to a lot of my problems.

Insomina, hair loss, bloatedness etc.

I couldn’t get my cortisol down at all, so I got on Ketoconozole ( anti fungal ) took 400 mgs a day.

This is the only thing in the two and half years that i have been dealing with this that i have felt better.

After 2 weeks my brain fog lifted, i was able to conduct meetings at work with ease, i felt like the A type male i used to be, i was happy again, confident, all my hair on my head grew back, i was energised, enthusiastic, not depressed and thought that i had solved the whole mess i had endured all this time. A lot of my symptoms i didnt feel anymore, the itchyness was gone.

I was so optimistic, i started socialising again, going out drinking with friends etc etc…

Anyway…

I was never able to get rid of my water retention, and now it was at it’s worst, i also completely lost the desire for sex while on Ketoconozole, didn’t sleep with my GF for over a month at one point, because i simply didn’t feel the need to.

It wasn’t until we broke up that i decided i woke up to myself and quit the Ketoconozole.

I still felt good afterwards, and my libido came back within a week.

SO from here i still held hope that the worst was behind me…

Went about things as normal, my bloatedness went down somewhat after Ketoconozole, i wasn’t holding as much water, my face held some resemblance of the chisled skinny face it once was, but this only lasted maybe two months.

Slowly but surely the symptoms have come back the last few months.

I tested for food allergies, had an MRI because i thought i had cushings syndrome.

This brings me to now, i was quite good until about 3 weeks ago, when i say good, my body was functioning quite well, i had libido, my water retention was quite low, i was growing a good amount of facial hair, my pubic hair was growing again etc.

Then after a really big night out for a friends 30th where i had a lot to drink and coke* i woke up and my face had just dropped again, my body ( Muscles ) went all mushy, my hair has stopped growing again, i feel anxious, i have brain fog, face has gone pale, beard stopped growing as has my pubic hair, i know this because i shave it.

So as i thought i might be finally getting over this a few months ago, i have just been getting a bit worse it seems by the week since i took the Ketoconozole.

It’s been maybe 4 months since i stopped, and now it seems my body has clicked back into this estrogen dominance and all the symptoms are back.

So last week i decided to get tested for histamine, as i think a lot of my symptoms could be related to it.

I have read the estrogen causes high histamine, which i think has happened, in turn which cortisol rises and tries to reduce the histamine.

Now i know that my cortisol is still in range, my histamine is high.

I had a blood test, and i am told i am undermetherlated.

I may have been even before fin, but since 4 months after taking fin i have had symptoms of undermetherlation, do to high histamine.

I get really itchy, my face swells up after certain foods, my eyes puff up, i hold water easily, these could all be from the high histamine.

I am wondering if the slight elevation in estrogen when i was in fin caused my histamine levels to rise even further and that is what is causing even further estrogen dominance, as i have read my cases of people who have high histamine which has caused estrogen dominance.

Anyway, what are peoples thoughts on my symptoms, water retention, puffy face, swollen eyes, hair not growing etc, to me it doesn’t fit the profile of estrogen dominance symptoms, not all of them anyway.

I don’t get that for example i can go eat a certain meal, or chocolate and i feel my scalp and its all sweating and my face blows up, this doesnt sound like estrogen to me.

I mean i get that a few of my symotoms are from estrogen dominance, but i hope that some of them are because of high histamine, because if i get them down i can atleast look a bit like i used to and not have this swollen face and ithcyness, and water retention.

I have ordered SAM-e, and a few other suppliments that is meant to bring histamine down, i have read of a dude on anibolicminds.com who had similar symtoms and was all good afterwards on these supps.

I can’t deal with not looking or feeling like me anymore, what are peoples thoughts on my story, I will say that once a month or so everything goes back to normal for a few days, then it just kicks in and go through my symptoms again for a few weeks.

I will post some pics of me pre fin and post fin so you can see the difference, but could someone tell me how to post the pictures on this page, you will be shocked at how i look since i took fin, i will post 3 pics, pre fin, post fin at my worst, and now.

Thanks again,

Declan

#12

Alright so I took pregesterone cream for the last 5 days, Stupidly as it was high on a saliva sample anyway.

I’ve stopped it, had headaces, holding even more water.

Got a question for people.

Since a lot of us have high estrogen, low test i want to know do you guys hold a lot of fluid in you body and face?

People don’t seem to have that issue as much from what i have read?

I am trying to work out if all this fluid retention and face swelling up is from high estrogen, or my high histamine.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

#13

I am just like you though took saw palmetto.I had to stop Agel b/c of alot of water retention in my body expecially in my chest and legs( around and above ankles). Got to the point where I was unable to walk stopped Agel and in 3-4 months got normal. But I still get water retention around my ankles and above it time to time. Just like you I asked the same thing many times and looks like not a lot of guys have this problem. I also get swelling around ankles so the socks marks stay there very long even many hours.

#14

I think it’s important you get your DHT tested.

#15

Yeah def going to get DHT tested in my next blood test.

How’s things going with you mate, feeling any better?

The reason why i think a lot of these symptoms are Histamine related.

I just ate dinner, really bloated, while I’m eating it nose starts running, iv’e got itchy eyes.

Just had some water after dinner, since then I have had to go in the bathroom because all my food just sits in the top of my chest and i have reflux, where i just bring all the water up with some food that hasn’t digested yet.

It’s disgusting, but this happens regularly, apparently high histamine levels decrease stomach acid, and cause water retention, but then again so does estrogen so who knows…

Just frustrating, my whole body changes day to day with these symroms it’s ridiculous.

#16

High histamine=Estrogen Dominance= Low Progesterone. Now watch what I am going to do, switch the chicken and the egg. inhibited neurosteroids such as dopamine/serotonin=Low Progesterone=Estrogen Dominance=High Histamine. I am almost 100% convinced that neurosteroids, such as depleted levels of serotonin and dopamine has neurologically lead to this.

Even Awor, had previously commented… “So what does that tell us? First of all, it is known that dopamine can activate the progesterone and estrogen receptor. Both, as members of the nuclear receptor superfamily, are in many ways similar to the androgen receptor. It is stated that other steroid receptors probably have this property as well. In other words, it is possible that dopamine can also activate the androgen receptor.”

Our progesterone receptors are not responding due to depleted dopamine. Here is some other evidnce that links this phenomenon:

  1. many people have reported a decrease in sexual symptoms from Dopamine/Serotonin boosters such as Seleginine (spelling), GHB, HTP5 etc. They havent held but it is extremely telling that they respond to dopamine.

  2. Exercise and fasting are both known to increase dopamine levels. These are two very useful and often practice methods on this site which have reportedly lead to enormous benefits with this syndrome.

  3. this one is a key to understanding this…several people have reported that when they go away on vacation they have “recovery periods” This makes enormous sense, going away on vacation is relaxing and probably has a huge boost in dopamine and serotonin. It makes absolute sense. Of course after vacation may people become upset that they are no longer on vacation or have to go back to work which would decrease it.

  4. my own experience. I have noticed that when my sexual function is at its worst I am depressed or irritated, or my head isnt clear. But suprisingly, I dont believe it is from the downed sexual function. In other words my own depression has caused the worsening of sexual symptoms. I was doing ok 2 weeks ago, obviously not great but much better than I had in the last 6 months. I started to think that this will never go away etc, that I will live with this forever etc. Those thoughts came when I was still in a good place, since that time I have had a two week nose dive. In other words, my negativity has really affected me. I am not trying to say staying positive and not being depressed will solve this problem but its obvious that dopamine has a huge role in all of this!

#17

Also, take a close look at the below study.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18219447

Tell me this sentence is not telling:

“Progesterone pretreatment enhanced the stimulatory action of serotonin on BDNF gene expression, and the enhancement of serotonin action observed in the cells pretreated with progesterone was almost completely abolished by finasteride, an inhibitor of the enzyme involved in the production of 5alpha-reduced neurosteroids”

Whattttt??? Cells pretreated with progesterone enhanced the action of Serotonin…and this effect was almost completely destroyed by finasteride!!! This is it people.

#18

Playing armchair scientist isn’t going to cure anyone. The PFS Foundation, through research initiatives, aims to unravel the mysteries of PFS. Until then, anything else is pure speculation and opinion.

#19

Mew, was that study I posted above, previously posted on this site or is this new to all of us?

#20

The thing is here my pregestrone is high as well as my E1, not E2, I have previously stated by accident that it’s my E2, not sure how much difference this makes.

So would you recomend me taking some suppliments to boost serotonin?

I will be in about 3 days time when all my suppliments come over from the US to treat my high histamine.

Tryptophan ans SAM-e both raise serotonin.

Also getting copper tested this week.