30 Year Old Australian, please have a look at my story...

Member Stories
#21

ahhhh if it were as easy as adding just progesterone none of us would need to be here. IMO, it is not the production of progesterone that is the problem, its the synthisis!! You can have very high levels of progesterone, but if its not synthsised or the receptor sites are blocked it wont have any effect.

-there is a member named “light at the end”, who IMO, has really seemed to boil down what has happened. He took a two prong attack on it by adding both progesterone as well as attacking the dopamine deficiency. take a look at what he wrote below:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5748&p=62471&hilit=progesterone#p62471

#22

Yes, “Light at the end” has chatted to me in a few messages, he has been very insightful.
Personally i am going to try counter the histamine and see what happens from there.

#23

Just curious if anyone knows what type of research is the PFS foundation doing?

#24

pfsfoundation.org/research/

#25

examiner.com/article/pfs-fou … ous-system

The Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation is sponsoring a roundtable discussion on PFS at the University of Milan’s 7th International Meeting on Steroids and the Nervous System conference in Torino, Italy, Feb. 19, 2013.

Titled Effects of Finasteride Treatment on the Nervous System, the event is being organized by Roberto Melcangi, associate professor at UM’s Institute of Endocrinology; and Giancarlo Panzica, head of the Anatomy, Pharmacology and Forensic Medicine Department at the University of Torino.

Among the keynote speakers, in addition to Prof. Melcangi, will be Abdulmaged M. Traish, PhD, professor of biochemistry and urology at Boston University School of Medicine.

PFS is characterized by sexual, neurological, hormonal and psychological side effects that persist in men who have taken the prescription drug finasteride to treat hair loss (under the brand name Propecia and generics), or enlarged prostates (Proscar and generics).

Reported symptoms include loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, Peyronie’s disease, penile shrinkage, gynecomastia, muscle atrophy, cognitive impairment, severely dry skin, and depression. The condition often has a life-altering impact on victims and their families, such as job loss and the breakup of marriages and romantic relationships, while also being linked to suicides.

“We’re moving quickly to increase awareness of PFS in medical and scientific communities around the world,” said PFS Foundation CEO Dr. John Santmann. “At the same time, we’re helping those researchers who’ve begun clinical explorations of PFS to continue that important work, while matching up new projects with researchers who’ve stepped forward to offer their expertise so that effective treatments may someday be developed.”

“The foundation’s participation in the International Meeting on Steroids and the Nervous System conference is therefore an important initial step in achieving our goals,” added Santmann.

#26

How did your copper test turn out, I’m curious

#27

March 2010
• Started taking Finasteride

June 2010
• Hair on head fell out including the sides and back of scalp
• Gained water retention all over body
• Brain fog
• Mental confusion
• No sex drive
• Pubic hair stoped growing
• Body hair grew longer and thicker though
• Anxiety
• Hot and cold hands and feet
• Impaired cognitive function
• Watery seamen
• Weight gain
• Oily skin
• Dark circles around eyes
• Itchy all over body

October 2010
• Quit Finasteride cold turkey

December 2010
• Went to endocrinologist
• Blood work came back in range

January 2011
• Went to a naturopath
• Got saliva testing done full hormone profile
• Etstrogen extremely high
• Low testosterone
• DHEA normal

February 2011
• Muscle wastage
• Persistent fatigue added to the original side affects
• Breast enlargement
• Brain fog to the point I was slurring speech
• Memory loss
• Bloating
• Started taking Zinc liquid form / DIM / supplements

June 2011
• Hair had somewhat grown back on head
• Tested for high cortisol and came back very high on saliva test
• Body would feel like it was cycling on a daily basis some days felt better than others.
• Still had water retention
• No sex drive
• Face would swell up
• Bloated stomach
• Sparse beard and pubic hair
• Emotionally flat
• Depressed
• Confused
• Anxious

August 2011
• Had a falling out with Business partner and long time friend, lost my 35% share in a business that would have set me up for life.
• Cortisol went even higher
• Had all the same symptoms consistently throughout the last year
• Stress was very high
• Started to develop food sensitivities
• Was tired after eating pasta / carbs / sugar
• Hair stopped growing completely
• Had to shave my head to a number zero

October 2011
• Went to Thailand
• Bought Arimidex
• Took Arimidex for 6 weeks
• Symptoms did not improve
• Did however start getting morning erections again

December 2011
• Tested Estrogen / Test saliva sample
• Estrogen Even higher ???
• Test Low
• DHEA High
• High Cortisol
• Started natural cortisol reducing supplements

March 2012
• MRI test done for high cortisol (pituitary) Came back okay
• Symptoms still really bad.

April 2012
• Decided I need to do something about the high cortisol
• Body was not functioning at all
• ‘Suicidal / Anxious / Depressed at symptoms
• Very frustrated
• Decided to take Ketoconazole ( Anti-Fungal ) – To reduce cortisol

May 2012
• Some symptoms improved since Ketoconazole
• Could think more clearly
• Cognitive function improved
• Hair grew back on my head thick as it was pre finasteride for the first time
• Lost all my libido though
• Didn’t have any sexual desire ( Due to Ketoconazole reducing test )
• Brain fog was lifted somewhat
• Work became easier
• Thought I was on road to recovery
• Started socialising again
• Was still very bloated and had massive water retention
• Beard still very sparse
• Low Test / High Estrogen still high

July 2012
• Got off Ketoconazole
• Cognitive ability was still better
• Hair continued to grow
• Sex drive came back a little
• Was generally happier as I thought I was getting better

September 2012
• Started getting digestion issues
• GERD
• Everything I ate would sit at the top of my throat
• I would literally regurgitate meals if I drank water afterwards
• Was given a supplement from Naturopath ( Beptin C ? )
• Face and water retention went down somewhat which I was pleased about

October 2012
• Tested for histamine ( Blood )
• Came back very high
• Was told to use the following
• Methionine
• SamE
• Calcium + Magnesium
• Vitamin B6
• Currently on all of them
• Felt a little better
• Was still eating bad foods though sometimes

January 2013
• Broke up with Girlfriend
• Started new job
• Moved house
• Stress levels went up made all my symptoms worse
• Cortisol rapidly went up even more ( Suspect was rising after I got off Ketoconazole )

February 2013
• Symptoms all came back 10 fold
• Cognitive function went down
• Brain fog
• Water retention came back
• Hair stopped growing
• Puffy face
• Started Dilantin ( Read that it reduces cortisol )
• Was desperate to regain cognitive function as was important for work
• Mildly improved a little

March 2013
• Off Dilantin
• Have no sex drive
• Water retention back 10 fold
• Muscle wastage
• Loss of erections
• Sore testicles
• Bloated
• Fall asleep within 20 minutes of eating dinner ( can’t keep my eyes open )
• This happens mostly with carbs any form of processed foods
• Depressed
• Anxious
• Face puffy
• Cold hands and feet
• Watery seamen
• Hair completely stopped growing
• Beard diffused and sparse
• Pubic hair sparse
• Vision blurred
• GERD

Current 2013
• Back on Ketoconazole

• What tests indicate
• (Blood)
• SHBG ( High ) Due to binding Testosterone or High Estrogen ?
• T3 & T4 ( On the very high side of normal )
• High Histamine
• More tests to come

• (Saliva)
• Estrogen High
• Test Low
• Cortisol High

=================

Theories after research last two and half years.
• Post Finasteride Syndrome
• Finasteride > Caused Estrogen / Test imbalance > Food sensitivities > High Histamine > High Cortisol
• Stress > Increases cortisol even more

What I want to do.
• Increase Testosterone
• Reduce Estrogen
• Reduce SHGB
• Reduce Histamine

What I have done the last month.

I assumed I had high cortisol again, so I got back on Ketoconozole, this was started before I got back my new cortisol test which subsequently came back low.

I took it because last time I got on Ketoconozole these symptoms improved:
Cognitive function
Hair grew back on head all over
Digestion issues got better
Anxiety went down
Brain fog went away
Allergies got better

This has lead me to assume something that I know has been dismissed on this board…
C.a.n.d.i.da?
Why when I take an anti fungal that I assumed made me feel better last time because it lowered my extremely high cortisol last time, this time I had low cortisol unbeknown to myself and I still had these improvements?

Cognitive function
Hair grew back on head all over
Digestion issues got better
Anxiety went down
Brain fog went away
Allergies got better

I am seeing a new Dr here in Melbourne Australia:

He is a Fellow of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (ABAARM), a Fellow of Australian College of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine (ACNEM), has a Certificate of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine from Swinburne University and is the Chair of the Education Committee of the Australasian College of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine. Denis lectures nationally and internationally in anti-aging and integrative medicine.

After reviewing all my results, and how bad my symptoms were he has got me on:

TRT 10% and 5% Chrysin transdermal cream.

It’s only been a week, and the first few days I felt better:
More blood flow to penis
Increased libido
More energy
More colour in face
Cold hands and feet went away

However now I feel it’s wearing off:
No libido
Energy slightly up but not as much
Dull pain in balls
Emotionally flat

I have recently, last couple of days stopped ketonconozole as Dr Rebic wants me to take a stool sample for c.a.n.d.i.d.a

I know that this is forbidin to talk about on here but based on a lot of my digestive symotoms he wants to see what is happening there.

The fact that I feel better on Ketoconozole may suggest that being an anti-fungal there is some merit it doing the test?

The reason why I am back on here, is I have read every post on this forum, I am really now wanting advice based on my bloods that have been taken recently and my saliva tests.

Over the last three years this has been a constant struggle as I am sure all of you are going through, but the symptoms that seem to change for me on a daily weekly basis I am really struggling to deal with of late, and have wondered if life is worth living in this state.

Physically what has changed recently and its ongoing:
Face has blown up ( Water retention)
Bloated
Wrinkles
Colour back in face
Hair has stopped growing properly
Pubic hair sparse
Grey hairs appearing on beard for no reason
Grey hairs appearing on side of head all of a sudden
I react to certain foods I eat ( Eg: High carbs or sugar, I need to sleep after 30 min of consumption)

I would like the experienced posters or anyone’s advice as to where to go from here based on my symptoms and test results.

Mew, others who post regularly and anyone who is in Australia ( Melbourne ) who could suggest what picture my most recent test results mean, and what I can look at addressing.

Let me say that I am literally wanting to try any protocol or drug that would assist me in just some sort of daily function.

I understand that a lot have sexual dysfunction issues, I do too however even working is a struggle for me and I have a very high pressure head sales role.

Here are the tests:
BLOODS:

FSH 4.8 ( 1.5-9.7 )
LH 7.2 (1.8-9.2 )
PROLACTIN 301 (0-500)
OESTRADIOL 101 (<160)
PROGESTORONE 2.9 ( 0.7-4.3)
TEST 27.4 ( 12 – 31.9 )
SHGB 65 ( 17-56 ) HIGH
DHT 1.4 ( 0.7 – 5.1 ) LOW
FREE TEST 386 (260-740 )
DHEA 9.0 ( 2.2- 15.2 )
T4 20.2 ( 11.0 – 21.0 ) HIGH ?
T3 6.3 ( 3.2-6.4 ) HIGH ?
TSH 1.40 ( 0.5 – 5.0 )
ANDROSTENEDIONE 15.6 (2.0-12.0) HIGH
PSA 0.32 ( 0.2-2.1 )
ALDOSTERONE 512 (100-950 )
17-OH PROGEST 14.3 (1.2-10.0) HIGH
IGF-1 12 (15-40)
IGFBP3 139 (115-240)

SALIVA TESTS:

TESTOSTERONE: 176.0 ( 100.0 – 720 ) LOW
DHT 3.8 (2.0-10.0 0 LOW
E2 3.0 ( <6 ) ( Within range despite a lot who have high E2 on this board )
E1 67.0 ( 9.6-20 ) VERY HIGH
DHEA 29.3 ( 5.0-30.0 )
ANDROSTENEDIONE 6.1 (1.0-10.07 )

CORSTISOL
MORNING 11.3 ( 6.0-42 )
MIDDAY 8.9 (2.0-11.0)
AFTERNOON 3.3 ( 2.0- 11.0 )
EVENING 2.8 ( 1.0 – 8.0 )
CORTISOL DAILY 26.3 ( 11.0 – 76 )
DHEA MORNING PROFILE 24.4 ( 5.0-30.0 )
DHEAS/CORTISOL AM RATIO 2.16 ( 0.20 – 0.60 )

BLOOD HISTAMINE: VERY HIGH OVER RANGE ( Waiting on new test results )

Advice needed asap please guys, really struggling.

#28

8th day on TRT + Chlomid and balls are really starting to ache.
Sore lower back. Bloated. Not feeling well at all.

#29

Declan just a thought here, and by no means do i wish to play the part of negative nancy, but your hormonal profile looks quite good except for imbalances in DHT to Estradiol ratio, Low Free T (most likely due to high SHBG and Estradiol). I don’t believe TRT or clomid in your case, is the correct solution here. TRT over a long enough period will drop your endogenous T production which is very healthy right now and I dont believe you should be f*ckin around with it. Any SERM use will be fruitless (i.e. Clomid and/or Nolvadex) in your case as your LH/FSH with respect to your Total T output looks spot on. In other words your primary HPTA pathway looks spot on with only Estradiol as a potential critter.

Your aim here therefore should be E1/E2 management and SHBG reduction (i know you said you’ve tried Arimidex before, maybe you should give that another shot over a longer term but with a lower dosage, say 0.5mg EOD or E3D to stabilise your Estradiol). Go and purchase some Cabergoline to bring down your Prolactin levels, even though they’re in the range they’re slightly high for your age. Looks like you’ve got your cortisol under control, best to try and keep it as low as possible (mind over matter and weight training/intensity exercise program will sort this out for you).

just my 2 cents. Beekay

#30

I appreciate your reply.

I simply cannot fathom why my symptoms are the way they are based on elevated estrogen. I read so many posts and members stories on here who have much higher estrogen and not near as many sides i am going through daily.

I went on Arimidex and once i came off it my Estrogen levels were even higher. Yes higher.

People on this forum may look at these results and while i know my bloods look okay, SHGB is high,17-OH progesterone is high.
All of my saliva samples which some on here don’t think hold much weight suggest that my Test is very low and my Estrogen off the charts.

I didn’t ask for TRT my Dr suggested it, so after 3 years of feeling like shit i have been taking it, probably doing myself more damage.

I really don’t even know why any of us bother writing on here anyway, there is about 6 success stories in the recovery section, if it was as simple as taking Arimidex then the problem would be solved.

I’m willing to try whatever, but i cannot live with these symptoms of water retention, no libido, hair falling out, bloating, reflux etc.

I can’t even enjoy a social drink or a dinner with mates anymore, I’m intolerant to most foods i eat, even though i have been tested on for food sensitivities IgG test, and not intolerant even though i fall asleep after eating things

My body has turned to fucking mush, I cant go to the gym, I used to be lean and ripped now I’m just jelly like.

My life has gone from being out and about with friends every weekend, picking up girls looking and feeling normal.

To my body swelling up with fluid, my hair not growing, not being able to get aroused. I work hard, I eat as well as I can nothing fucking changes.

The most exciting part of my day is getting home to have a shower and watch Sportscenter, every night.

I have accepted like most of us should that this is permanent, my side effects don’t go away.

I have come on here one last time as a last resort because quite frankly I am that close to topping myself off its not even a joke anymore.

I’m not sitting here typing saying my case is worse than others or any of that, but let me tell you that I can’t physically and emotionally just sit by and watch my body physically change and not be able to be sexually aroused for much longer.

It’s 3 years now, I was a type a Alpha male, I am shell of myself and I have even told my parents that i don’t think i will be around much longer if i cant see any improvement.

It’s either i choose to live this life which is non existent or end it, because I don’t see anyone getting any better on here, and no matter what i have tried i have certainly never got any better.

I’m not even emotionally or depressed about this anymore, I am just numb, and stumped as to why i have all these symptoms if you say my bloods are all okay, which they are not.

Don’t mean to rant, its a Friday night I’m about to leave work, what i would usually be doing is going to have a good night out and enjoy my weekend, but i will go home have some food feel like shit after eating it, sit on the couch watch TV and do this again and again like ground hog day.

Everyone ask’s for peoples opinions on here as to what to do, they speak of Chrysler and Shippen or whatever their names areand other Dr’s etc, but when it comes down to it, all we do is fork out $1,000’s on tests and supplements and end up no where.

SHGB HIGH
ESTROGEN HIGH
PROGESTORONE HIGH
HISTAMINE HIGH
TEST LOW ( Saliva )

If anyone could give me 3 different protocols or drug combos to try, i will try them one by one if they don’t work then I’m giving up.

So everything else aside based on my blood work etc can anyone chime in and give me a couple of protocols to attempt because I am giving this one last shot.

Cheers

1 Like
#31

Should I get off the TRT?

#32

I have had high estrogen on saliva since these symptoms started. Histamine can be a side affect of estrogen dominance.

For histamine i take:

Methionine
Inisitol
SamE
Magnesium / Calcium
Vitamin C

The more i have looked into what Matrix has said on anobolicminds.com ( who I respect as a poster on hormones and the like ) the last couple of days regarding liver inflammation and GI problems the more I think this could be the root of most of my symptoms.

I will give you an example of this:

Last night I got home had a decent amount of energy, was wide awake. I bought some Indian Take away, just some basic butter chicken and rice, with two samosa’s.
Within 20 min of eating it i fell dead asleep on the couch sitting up right at 8:30 last night, woke up at 1:30am.

It’s uncontrollable the urge to sleep after eating certain meals. The same thing happened the other night with lamb and some chips, fell straight asleep and i cannot stop it from happening.

I look more into c.a.n.d.id.a, I have so many of the same symptoms:
Brain fog
Cold hands and feet
Water retention
Reflux
Burping
Bloated stomach constantly
Low sex drive
Loss of libido
Stunted hair growth / hair loss
Alergies
Runny nose
Sore cheek bones
Sore lower back

The thing i want to ask people if they know the drug ( Ketoconozole ) anti fungal. If my symptoms go away such as brain fog, cognitive function improvement, all my hair grows back at a normal and thick rate, bare in mind at one point 80% of my hair stopped growing all over when i was at my worst.

If Ketoconozole is an anti fungal and my symptoms always improve when i take it, can we make the assumption that this is the root cause or, do you think that my estrogen / test ratio is the cause of my suspected c.a.n.d.i.d.a or another GI or liver problem?

I did that spit test you do, where you wake up in the morning and spit into a glass of water, if its stringy and sinks to the bottom, apparently it is candida.

Don’t know how reliable the test is, but I am having a stool sample taken in a week.

Either that or I am hyperglycemic?

I also press gently on my liver under the right hand side of my rib cage and its very tender when i push on it.

I realise that Ketoconozole is liver toxic, i am off it now after being on it for only two weeks this time round, already my symptoms have started to come back.

Hair has gone very sparse, falling asleep straight after meals etc etc

I do feel slightly better on the 10% TRT and 5% Chrysin last two days, but do you think its a bad move being on this when it could be a liver and or GI problem???

I don’t want to be on TRT if i don’t have to, if i stay on it temporally for say a month or two, will my body stop producing its own Testosterone?

I obviously want to bring down my SHBG and my estrogen, but with GI or Liver problems do i work on this naturally or with drugs?

What would you guys do in my situation, because my symptoms fluctuate daily and seriously it affects every part of my life.

Am I on to something here… or are these symptoms common with others with high estrogen?

#33

1-stop eating Gluten (all products from wheat, barley, oats etc), dairy, and sugar. Just stay away for six weeks you will see the difference.

2- start vitmin D3,

#34

Never give up trying dude. My test level is sitting at 12 i’m struggling just like you man. Hopefully one of us will make the breakthrough. Ive just begun my protocol, I’ll keep you updated on progress

#35

The C a n d i d a really is an issue. I have come to thic coclusion as I have had it severe. IT seems to target areas which were once estrogen receptive while taking the drug.

What seems to have really helped me over the yeras is:

  • Diet of no sugar/yeast, no alcohol, mainly vegetables, salads and low fat meat
  • Probiotics
  • Supplements - Magnesium, Protein, Melatonin
  • Regular exercise, but not too much cardio
  • Don’t skimp on sleep
  • Apple Cider vindgar (one or two teasppons a day)
  • Glass of salt water (once a day)

Good luck.