Why methylation is key to recovery

Methyl donors such as B vitamins choline and betaine are what your liver uses to remove estrogen from your body even “estrogen blockers” will not remove estrogen from your body. (The only estrogen blockers that permanently disable estrogen are aromatase inhibitors i do not recommend them because i have seen that they can also mess up peoples sex drives and some also block dht. Using SERMS such as nolvadex or clomid should be safe.) Even if your liver function is good supplementing a B complex and choline will help remove excess estrogen from your body in a 100 percent safe manner as long as you dont overdose on anything. If you have elevated liver enzymes you need to supplement methyl donors to heal your liver and lower excess estrogen and other waste that your body is trying to get rid of.

Christopher walker talks a lot about how important choline and methylation is, i know he is trying to sell people stuff but his information is always checks out in my experience.

Irony to read this title, I am just asking in another thread why for some methylation is beneficial and for the others the exact opposite - demethylation. Day and night, its truly a mysterious condition

I would imagine demthylation would help someone whos liver is overloaded? Methyl donors are liver toxic at high enough doses.

Speaking of liver, do You know about any accurate test that goes beyond the basic billirubin, GMT, ALP, AST, ALT markers? Like real liver function of its cytochromes, how efficiently it works, etc…? Those basic are always good for me in results, do You think that it does mean that methyl donors would benefit me? I doubt that it is that simple, also considering theories about gene silencing being behind our syndromes

The simplest explanation i can come up with for pfs is that there is too much estrogen attached to receptors on peoples bodies for DHT to have any significant effect on the body and that raising dht to supraphysiological levels will create new androgen receptors and disable and remove estrogen receptors. The only people that recover are people who raise dht to very high levels. My theory is also supported by the fact that bodybuilders will do another cycle of steroids to bring back “f’d up sex drives” all the time. Proviron and other dht derivatives that have a mostly androgenic and almost no anabolic effect usually work best to fix ED. And i dont know much about livers but common sense would tell me that 99 percent of the time a liver that appears to function would utilize methyl donors fairly well to remove waste because that is what your liver is normally supposed to do i dont know of any tests beyond those to show abnormal liver function

That’s funny. Taking methyl donors such as SAMe, B vitamins, and betaine have made members of this site much worse. I had a horrifying adverse reaction.

An excess of methyl donors has also been used to induce ED in rodents:


I confirm, Methyl B1 has worsened me.

Could it be having a negative effect because of some type of liver damage?

Not judging by horrible insomnia for months on end after quitting. Never heard of that as a symptom of liver damage.

I must ask why you are comparing symptoms that only lasted 6-weeks after stopping nettle root to PFS or these other post-drug conditions which last years, even decades without remission?

There are also members here with very high levels of circulating DHT who have yet to recover.

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Taking methyl donors sealed my faith of laying in bed everyday 24/7. Don’t make the same mistake please.



Damn i take that everyday i’m sorry it made you worse dude.

I only recently fully recovered after 7 months of treating my symptoms. I had normal blood tests with no libido and many of the nightmarish pfs symptoms my brain fog was really bad and i felt kind of like a zombie. Maybe i didnt have true pfs? You’ve been on here a lot longer than me is there some type of standard for the amount of tine that your symptoms have to last for it to be considered pfs?

Nothing official, but 3 months post-drug without significant recovery is generally considered a post-drug condition around here. Natural, total, or near total, recoveries occuring within 6-12 months without treatment aren’t uncommon. Again, this is loosely speaking.

Going by the hypothesis that DNA methylation is at the root of PFS, increased intake of methyl donors could exacerbate the problem. DNA hypermethylation was achieved in the rat study simply by supplementing their diet with methionine.