Why, just as the ED starts my dating life grows.....

Member Stories
#1

Ive been following here for a while, so i thought id add my piece.

  1. How did you find this forum? Google.

  2. What is your current age, height, weight? 26, 168cm, 68kg

  3. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise? A lot, running 40km/wk, swimming 8km, cycle 100km. Plus surf, wake, snowboard etc.

  4. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)? Health, never eat out, enjoy cooking, alot of fruit and raw veges.

  5. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)? Thinning hair

  6. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)? 6-7 months with a few gaps

  7. How old were you when you started Finasteride? 25

  8. How old were you when you quit? 26

  9. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)? cold turkey

  10. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic? Generic

  11. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)? 1mg every day

  12. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects? 6-7 months, maybe a lot earlier without realizing.

  13. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation? I didn’t see much till i stopped, but these ones do remain. Erectile dysfunction, lack of libido, lack of motivation, slight insomnia, brain fog, lack of morning erections, no spontaneous erections, night erection, emotional flatness.

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[x] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[x] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[x] Loss of Morning Erections
[x] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[x] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[x] Watery Ejaculate
[ ] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[x] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[x] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[ ] Confusion
[ ] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[x] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[x] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[x] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[x] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[x] Testicular Pain
[x] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[x] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[ ] Muscle Wastage
[ ] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain
[ ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[x] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[ ] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ ] Increased hair loss
[ ] Frequent urination
[ ] Lowered body temperature

[X] Other (please explain)
Unsure exactly.

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug? Currently going the natural way, Some Ginseng, Multivitamins and Jasmine Tea. Viagra to help the ED/manage shrivelage.
    I don’t want to mess with the rest of my hormones with TRT or those treatments till i have to.

  2. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)? I don´t have pre-propecia blood tests. I was a health, driven guy, that never needed to see doctors.

  3. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride? What the fuck was i thinking.

  4. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

When i started on Finasteride, i wish i’d found this site, i searched for “adverse affects of Finasteride” and never found this.
I’m not even sure why i started, i’ve since shaved my head, which i did for movember for $1000. As my dad had prostate cancer in 2009. After shaving my head i can’t keep girls away, One of them being my GF who likes it better shaved.

About a month after meeting my girlfriend in October 2010, found i had a sore nut, and it was hard to get it up sometimes. I then searched again for side effects and found this site. I nearly cried, in the end i think i went for a run to try clear my head. For me as this was the only chemical i put in my body, it was fairly obvious what was happening, and reading some of the stories here was quite overwhelming.

I threw what i had left out that day.

After quitting i realized that my nut had been sore months before and i hadnt connected the two. Id also been suffering some brain fog, and depression, lack of motivation. i stumbled over words quite a bit, which i’ve never done before. I just no longer enjoyed everything like i once did. Snowboarding, something i never thought id not enjoy became a little mundane. I put these down to work, as i work some long hours and have a fairly heavy schedule, my previous motivated self got me to a management point in an oil company, no easy feat. Now id say i`m just cruising, not really getting anywhere. I can take huge risks now with no real adrenaline buzz from them.

After getting off the shit, things went ok, not great, till about December. I seemed to always be a tired, mopey cunt, short to people. Id nap after work, when usually id be running or doing something active. In a conversation i would zone out, and just kinda stare through them and nod (like looking through a rainy car window). Not good when your their manager.
On christmas day with a fairly new girlfriend i couldnt get hard, at all. Quite embarrasing, scary, and not easy to explain to a very good looking girl that i cant perform for, that its not her fault. I also didnt seem to care, or have much of a drive to have sex anyway. I now realise why generic comes with some free Viagra.

A month down the track, i now have very weak erections most of the time, can masterbate sometimes, but have noticed shrinkage, and it`s happened rapidly. Scary, where will it end.

Im going the natural way for now, no more chemicals (except the viagra). Centrum mens multi, Some ginseng, which i think is helping to keep my head clear, Tribulus to try keep some blood moving around my penis so it doesnt die, which seems to give me some night stiffness and a little in the morning. And the Viagra, so a can have sex at all.

The thing im worried about is viagra, i havent found any good documentation about dependency issues or long term side effects. I don`t want to patch my life up now to have a worse problem later on, i still have a lot of sexual life to go. Any feedback here would be great.

For now im off viagra, i took a temporary position in Malaysia, and my GF is in Russia for 2-3 months training. So hopefully this all sorts itself out. I have time to myself to see if i can level out again. I feel i'm not as bad off a some people on here, so im staying positive for now.

Things that seem to be improving:
Hair is thinning again (i believe an improvement, as my testosterone is probably going up, DHT doing its thing again) Oiler skin and acne that i hadnt seen for 5-6 months
Weak night erections (better than nothing)
A morning wood that lasted a good hour (no viagra involved)
Better mood, less anxiety, possibly sharper focus (worked consistently for 6 hours without getting sidetracked or losing concentration etc. more like my usual focussed self) Could be the fact that if i don’t i’ll be fucked.
Motivation and drive (ran 20km last night for the first time in 3 months)

Things that are worse:
The general ED
Sensitivity
Sense of there being nothing down there
Shrinkage
Lack of spontaneous erections and random day time ones.

It all seems to be a day by day basis, some are ok. Some are shit.

#2

Sorry that you’ve had to join the club here, bro. As far as viagra—I just switched back to Cialis. Better results for me, and I don’t get the super-flushed headaches. I need super high doses of anything, and also combine injections. But when I recently stumbled upon Viagra potentially causing blindness (something about pressuring the optic nerve), it’s scary enough for me to say no thanks. Some people on this sight experience eye floaters or some type of eye/vision side effect. Just FYI.

#3

I know what you mean about the “shrinkage”. I was about 50% overnight. Literally went to bed “normal” and woke up the next day a unich.

#4

This.

What can precipitate such a cataclysmic overnight change?

I wish I had more of a scientific background to theorize.

#5

Loss of androgens… massive post-Fin Testosterone drop within weeks of quitting.

#6

I’d say i’m not as bad as some here. At the moment anyway. 10-15mg of Viagra seems to really do the job, but i may try the Cialis instead.
And i’d say the T theory is close, i run i get shrinkage (lowers my testoterone generally), i do weights it come’s back a little. I’d get tested for everyones benefit but i’m nowhere near a real doctor.

I’ve started trying to exercise my prostate as well. After my dad had prostate cancer and a good chunk removed he was given prostate exercises, as he had ED and it was well reccomended (Family friend is the urologist so it’s no BS). Strengthening the muscles around it can stimulate blood supply and that can only be a good thing. We’ll see how that goes.

My mind has been good in the last couple of days, as i said, i really have no choice as i just took this job and at 26 and 3 years out of Uni i’ve taken over from a 35 year oilfield veteran. A lot to learn fast. This may be what i need. Definitely believe some focus and motivation has come back since christmas. Which i’d say was the worst i’ve felt.

Hopefully i’ve seen the bottom, and its all up from here.

#7

“Loss of androgens… massive post-Fin Testosterone drop within weeks of quitting.”

Mew do you think if after you came off fina, in the following week or so tamoxifen and HcG boosting up your natural production would help you avoid “the crash”.

#8

Honestly, I don’t know. There are so many feedback mechanisms at work, its impossible to say without being able to go back in time and test out such a theory and look at the results of it vs. not doing anything vs. trying other treatments.

If one’s T levels dropped and one immediately implemented some sort of PCT shortly thereafter to “reset” baselines, would this be enough to fool the body into establishing a “normal” T/LH/FSH level after stopping the PCT? It’s a good question. What are your thoughts?

#9

I disagree with the massive post fin Testosterone drop causing the shrinkage. Boston and I are probably the two worst for that side with very different T levels. Mine is still in the 700 range but I can attest around a 50% size reduction.

I would say your body reacts to the surging DHT which it has not seen in months/years and tries to balance that with disaster. Perhpas plummeting T, perhaps surging E, but your whole hormone balance gets out of whack - precisely becuase your body is trying to get it into balance. The issue once your body settles into that new state how do you get it back to correct balance - some have suggested another shock

#10

same me here, within days I came to ground like a rock.

#11

Guys as I have said this is damage to prostate in addition to damage to our other body organs but since sex is so visible we are just concentrating on sex. This is our prostate which is behind our erections, pleasures etc. A lot of people face ED after prostate removal (Though their TT or DHT are unchanged). About 3 years back I joined a community gathering and I learned one guy had his prostate operation. Just recently I asked him about his erections and he told me they are gone.
He has no other health issues. I am trying to convince him to have blood test for TT , LH and FSH to see if there is a relationship b/w prostate size and hormones but apparently I think there is little or none because he looks fine.

sps

#12

I have pondered this a lot. Especially as I had that period of nothing happening then very brief improvment then crash. It was perhaps a window of opportunity to get on clomid or hcg.

It’s impossible in some ways to recommend as until you crash you just don’t know which way fate will lead you. Some have appalling sides which abate when they quit, others get them out of nowhere. How would you know if you were going to crash?

You’ve also got to remember that most of us are novices when it comes to hormones when we arrive here, and would regard these PCT drugs as strong meds and not get on them unless in a very bad situation, when in reality they are probably less damaging than finasteride.

I also doubt they would have anything like the effectiveness if you wait until you crash. Also, guys at this point might have thyroid and adrenal difficulties which would prevent a straight up restart.

So, in short, I don’t know!

#13

Well, what happens in prostate removal surgery is that nerves get damaged.

I don’t disagree that in taking a drug that was initially indicated for prostate size reduction that we’ve atrophied our prostates. And that healing of the prostate is part of recovery (however the hell one does that).

#14

youngagain.org/books/ProstateBook2008.pdf

This is obviously not a cure, I understand that this problem far eclipses natural treatments. However, I can only believe it would be beneficial to aid and facilitate the body by natural means to restore and regenerate the best possible health. Thank you to Dr. Jacobs, Dr. Irwig, Dr. Rynne, Mew and others who are trying desperately to find a cure and with their integrity, honor and courage standing tall against Merck, the reprehensible company who knowingly allowed this to happen. Shattering lives, ruining health, taking away life…truly a crime against humanity. All for the sake of greed and their lust for money and profits. A total disregard and disrespect for human life.
Thank you doctors, etc. for standing strong and giving this cruel drug-induced syndrome a voice and the medical attention it deserves.

#15

Thanks for the ebook, KAH. The good doctor has some interesting observations.

Is anyone trying Beta-sitosterol supplements? [He recommends it but I think for PFS sufferers, it’s not good!]

His comments on resvertrol were very strong:

#16

Haven’t read the whole PDF, but the opening offends all my recently accumulated dietary knowledge. That is, that isolated, healthy world populations have had vast and diverse diets. Some were VERY dairy-dependent, some ate mostly meats/protein, many were high-fat. The common thread was the ABSENCE of processed foods, canned goods, sugars and flours. So many studies and interpretations of studies are flawed because they fault one variable, while failing to isolate others. Meats, and animal fats are vilified, for example, when the types of oils that they are cooked in (cheap, vegetable-derived/processed, easily oxidized) in are not examined, the precise quality of meat is not isolated. A strict vegetarian/non animal-byproduct diet will leave you with a void of vitamin b12 along with other nutritional deficiencies. Furthermore, the suggestion that whole grains be the staple of one’s diet is contrary to the increasing awareness of the inflammatory, allergenic nature of grains, gluten, wheat products. Even in those who are not Celiac.

This PDF might have some valid points, but it kind of turned me off from the get-go.

Interesting read:
michaelpollan.com/interviews/michael-pollan-debunks-food-myths/

#17

Xhorndog,

Sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone. I agree, we all have to read, educate ourselves and determine what are the best choices for us. Learn, take away, and apply information that we read that we feel is valuable, etc. Nothing is “the bible” in terms of what is right or wrong. We all own our own health and it is up to us to learn what we can. I just felt that it was a good introduction perhaps into what might be helpful for prostate health. Just a springboard to get research going.

Thank you for your link, it was an interesting read. Good luck to you and to everyone.

#18

Hey KAH,

I didn’t meant to come off that strong, lol. By “offend,” I meant…contradicts things I passionately believe. So much of diet/nutrition is debatable, so I definitely encourage anyone interested to read lots of contradictory books and come to the conclusions they want to. We’ve come to accept so much of the pop-science that passes for nutritional health advice, that we don’t challenge convention enough. Every decade, there’s a new fad, a new target for the root of our deteriorating health. Often, the target is REAL food, including meats, dairy products and things that in their WHOLE, natural, unadulterated, raw, unpasteurized form, and not the imitation forms that pass for food, are extremely healthful. Too often, scientific studies draw conclusions without truly isolating variables. There is a difference between eating a McDonald’s burger, cheap bread and all, and eating grass-fed beef, liver and it’s accompanying animal fat. There’s a difference between cooking in cheap Canola oil (derived from rape seed which contains deleterious ureic acid) and cooking in time-tested olive oil, coconut oil, butter.

There are lots of great books out there, and lots of great articles, that challenge these traditional viewpoints of what diet we need to be on. Read up on the lipid hypothesis and how it’s been refuted, the “paeleo” diet, etc, etc. Guys like us NEED eggs, which have choline (precursor to acytelcholine), iodine, Vitamin D, B12, etc. but we fear cholesterol (which synthesizes into the very hormones we’re low in). We’re instructed to substitute whole natural foods with processed fake foods which are formulated for the particular fad/agenda of the time (think margerine/butter, low-fat but high in sodium, saturated fats–oh no, it’s the trans fats).

I believe we’re adapted to eat a wide variety of foods, and that our heritage/genetic makeup dictates the optimal diet. Nevertheless, the lowest common denominator is probably what our ancestors ate, our hunter and gatherer ancestors…nuts, fruits, vegetables, and animals (all parts). Agriculture came much later, much more recently. For healthy individuals, a wider diet, eating grains/glutens, etc, might not be a big deal. For those of us with chronic illness, here, perhaps that’s a consideration. There are fascinating tidbits of information out there. For example, asians have larger pancreases which enable them to metabolize rice easier, which normally turns to glucose easily. They do not have the lactase enzyme, and therefore are frequently lactose intolerant.

Some random basic points I subscribe to:

  1. Eat food. Meaning nothing processed with preservatives. Stuff that rots. Nothing from a gas station or middle supermarket isle, nothing re-composed and injected with vitamins, nothing formulated such as cereals, etc. Eat salads and meats: beef, poultry, fish.
  2. Fast. Intermittently. Eat 2 or 3 meals, don’t snack. Cut your metabolic load.
  3. Eliminate sugar, high fructose corn syrup in particular.
  4. Eat 50-60% raw foods (cooking = stress to your system)
  5. Drink nothing but water, if you can. Filtered water.
  6. This is all off the cuff, I’m not best-summarizing it, and each item is debatable. Water and how to filter it alone! To remove fluoride but not the natural minerals, for example. Fish/mercury poisoning? Etc, etc.

KAH, just wanted to let you know it’s nothing personal, lol. Thank you for sharing info on the prostate. I will still read through and see what I can get from the document.

#19

Xhorndog, Thank you for taking the time to write that. You have a lot of excellent information and knowledge to share. It can only help and inspire the members on this site to try to treat their bodies as well as they can and to be as healthy as they can as they try to deal with this horrible condition.

#20

Thanks man. I really don’t know much, lol. I cannot follow most of these high level discussions on methylation and androgen resistance, but because of this finasteride ordeal, I’ve become obsessed with learning as much as I can on practical nutrition. SO much to learn. And SO much disinformation from the very same industries that got us into this finasteride mess: big pharma/tainted research/poor media scrutiny/complacent prescribing doctors/conventional wisdom.

On the topic, one of the best sites for explaining/debunking the Cholesterol myth:
cholesterol-and-health.com/Does-Cholesterol-Cause-Heart-Disease-Myth.html

The reason this is so important to me is that I’ve drastically changed my diet to aid recuperation, and it’s disgusting how screwed up our food system is, how little respect we show to mother nature, how insulting the claims that food manufacturers are, how corrupt the institutions that purport to protect us are (American Heart Association, FDA, et. all). Don’t get me started! Can’t believe how damn preachy I’ve become, I hate it!

super cool foundation dedicated to healthful eating, real science (this particular link discusses vitamin k2, but brows the links on the left):
westonaprice.org/abcs-of-nutrition/175-x-factor-is-vitamin-k2.html