Can you name one? I can’t. Did I miss something? If he’s having “success” I think we’d all be booking our airline tickets tonight.
Don’t use this forum as an indictor.
I’ve read what Dr Crisler says on his own forum and it’s been said he has had varying degrees of success with various patients. He forbids his clients from posting his protocols etc. THat might explain something. I’ve no reason to doubt it.
Remember, most PFS sufferers arent going to be dedicated to “the cause”. Most don’t look for a forum to join, either.
As for booking flights? Well…maybe you should. I would consider it if my case was more complicated and extreme. Crisler, imo, it the most knowledgeable doc in the world with this stuff.
Could you elaborate a bit more about this? Are you one of Dr. Crisler’s patients? I’m wondering for what reasons he would decline to disclose this information. The fact that Propecia is a dangerous drug and is advertised as safe is the only fact I’ve otherwise heard on this forum that is kept “secret” and proprietary to anyone.
I understand that there are a lot of reasons why you wouldn’t want something like this broadcast on the internet, but also, I can’t afford to see every doctor in the US either. I have no way of knowing which doctors are really on top of this, or which ones just claim to be, or which ones are clueless and just a waste of time, etc. I’m willing to expend the resources to see the right person but I have no idea who this person may be; I’ve gotten a lot of bad advice in regards to treating myself for this, including a lot of bad advice from doctors, so I have become really jaded and do not know who to trust.
Sometimes I feel like expending the time and money to search for and then see really qualified medical help is becoming almost as big a drain on my life as the Propecia side effects!
This is why you don’t say things lilke a doctor has had “more success than people reckon”. It gets others hopes up and ready to travel across the county, esp those new to the forum. I’m not aware of any of us here who are seeing Crisler now. And saying he makes you swear to secrecy about his protocals sounds ludicris to me. If there was a treatment that was helping any of us I would think that information would spread like wildfire. Colin resides in the UK and has never seen any of the PFS docs so really isnt one to comment on the subject. Crislers’ “claims” of a certain success rate are just that, claims. I will say for Shippen he doesn’t sugar coat the situation to his patients or make you any promises. The sad fact remains that there is no cure now. Any doctors office that tells you differently isnt being straight with you.
I don’t know of anyone who Crisler has cured and he almost certainly doesn’t have a better track record than most other of the “PFS docs”. Obviously if he did we would all jump on a plane and see him tomorrow. At least he tries I suppose. Most doctors want nothing to do with us. We’re a sorry lot.
I’m not trying to discourage you from seeing Crisler if you research him and feel he can help you. But I really dont see any difference from Goldstein or Mariano, who are closer to you, and Crisler. I don’t think one is having a great deal more success than the other. My experience in seeing two of the PFS docs is that I’m only thousands of dollars poorer. We’re all different of course so maybe the one you pick can do something for you. Just keep your expectations within reason.
Dr Chrysler charges $1500 for the initial consultation.
If anyone was having success I think we would see it here. There’s nothing like success stories for positive advertising.
I agree with everything you said 100%. In my book, a doctor who can reliably fix something like this should be broadcasting that information widely for the benefit of patients everywhere, if not also so that they can receive a reward of recognition from their peers (i.e. something like a Nobel Prize in medicine). I would hop on the first plane available to take me to any destination where there was a doctor that I knew could help me dig myself out of this, and would pay him practically anything in exchange, but I think the sad fact is that nobody really knows the root cause of the problem thus nobody really knows how to fix it.
What you said about doctors not wanting to have anything to do with us echoes painfully for me; I’ve actually been turned away from the offices of a few doctors after I told them what happened to me and I pointed the finger at Propecia (but of course not before they ran a blood test on me and hit my insurance). The anger from these experiences of being treated like a “hot potato” were what fueled me to stay motivated and keep asking around and seeing more doctors and doing more research; I refused to allow myself to be defeated by an apathetic or hesitant medical establishment. For me personally, I just reached the realization that local doctors were never going to do anything for me no matter how understanding (or even believing) they were of my post-Propecia complaints; so instead of losing about $200 bucks a pop every time I visited a new doctor (between co-pays and blood tests) and getting nothing, after a while I figured it made more sense financially to spend up to at least $2000 or more to see a “PFS doc” and hopefully get at least some result, and that’s what I ended up doing.
I selected Dr. Goldstein’s name from this site, and went to see him in San Diego. He was the closest to my location in LA, and since at the time I assumed that all doctors on this site were collaborating over this issue, I assumed that the treatment from him would be the same or similar to the treatment from other doctors; so it was basically a matter of who I could see with the least amount of travel…money wasn’t the deciding factor, and neither was reputation (who can say what reputation or trust means anymore in light of what happened to us with Propecia).
I also feel what you said about Shippen being bluntly honest about our prospects for recovery; Goldstein was the same way with me (maybe a little bit too honest in fact), and quite frankly I was shocked and a bit depressed for a little while after hearing the truth from him. But in the end, I’ve got to respect him for that and as a result I trust him more, and I know he will do his best to help me out; we got in our situations because of fluffy marketing and promises from Merck, so I’m hypersensitive to hearing stuff like that again and will totally lose faith in any doctor who claims anything that he cannot support with real evidence.
I think the total bill from Dr. Goldstein was about $1500 for me as well, though I think only about $500-600 of that was the actual consultation. Other charges came into the picture because of the types of tests he ran on me, namely the erectile exam, which required several shots and a fair amount of his time. He was able to leverage the blood tests performed in other offices, so I only had to bring my paperwork from them with me.
I will say however that the biggest deciding factor for me was the fact that Dr. Goldstein seemed to be selectively performing the sorts of tests that would give him information to help him characterize and diagnose my problems, so that he could determine an appropriate way to treat me. This fact really relieved me, regardless of whatever it would have ended up costing, as I had been accustomed to having random blood tests and other tests performed on me for reasons that doctors declined to explain (evidently so that they could charge my insurance for it), and then in the end having them neither diagnose a problem and/or fail to prescribe a treatment.
I don’t know what other doctors include in their “initial consultations” so it may be difficult to do a one to one comparison.
I wasn’t really implying one doctor has had more success than the other although im sure each doctor is yielding atleast marginally different results.
As boston said im from the UK i haven’t met any of these doctors im just saying what i read from them. Ultimately we are in a dubious position because that’s all we’ve got.
I don’t post much because I sometimes feel like I’m beating a dead horse. I’ve already said everything I need to say about how I ruined my life and don’t really have anything to contribute regarding a solution. If I find a way out of this you’ll definitely hear about it. Nothing has really changed for me much except headaches and sleep are a little better. I’d say I am maybe 15% better now than when I hit rock bottom two years ago. At the current rate of progress, it will be many years before I recover, if I recover at all
Goldstein’s prices seem to be on target. My first visits with Shippen and Jacobs ran around $2000+ w/labs. Of course subsequent labs has been more $. I don’t feel like seeing any of the docs was wasted money. I will probably pick one of the docs on the west coast or Crisler to see next year just to get another opinion and options for treatment.
Aero you also touched on an important point- The docs are finally cooperating. They should be sharing info on which treatments are working and which arnt. This doesnt mean we will be better tomorrow but there is the opportunity to make some gains. Also Awor’s treatment seems very promising, at least to me. The epigenetic related cancer research might provide us with some similar options. No doubt we are in an extremely precarious situation, but there is some cause for hope.
ps - Aero, I’d think Goldstein and Mariano must have some contact with eachother. You’d guess treatment from both might compliment eachother. Mariano handling the hormone side and Goldstein handling the mechanics. Take a drive up the PCH, spend a few days in Monterey. See Mariano, go whale watching, enjoy the scenery.
Crisler charges 500 for a consult. I know because I have an appointment with him in two weeks. Follow up exams are 150 bucks once you are established.
Yup, I think a link to the same video is included on the home page of this website.
Dr. Goldstein sent me the prescriptions for the Clomid, Cabergoline, and Arimidex that I’m presently consuming. Goldstein also looked at me for the physical stuff such as checking the sensitivity of my penis, and analyzing the blood flow to my penis by performing an erectile exam.
For whatever reason, he didn’t mention the name of any endocrinologist out there; Goldstein apparently had the confidence to write me the prescriptions for these things without consulting the Mariano that you’re mentioning (your post is the first time I’ve heard that name), unless perhaps he has already done this for other post-Propecia patients. I’ll look into it some more and find out who Mariano is, and then give some serious thought to seeing him after I do some investigation. I’ve already been to Monterey once before and did enjoy the scenery very much (and actually went whale watching too) while I was there, plus the ride was fairly pleasant, so I wouldn’t be opposed to doing it again if there was reason to hope that I would benefit from another visit.
boston332, I just Googled Mariano, and it seems that his training is in the area of psychiatry, not endocrinology; can you explain how treatment through him would be helpful? Based on your comments earlier, I assumed that he was an endocrinologist but this doesn’t seem to be the case. I can’t find much out there to support anything else associated with his expertise with the management of hormones other than your comments, though I did see him mentioned on a website that supports present/former steroid users. Several posts alluded to him also being an expert endocrinologist, but I do not see this information formally posted anywhere as one of his qualifications.
I suppose I’m just wondering why I should expect Mariano to be helpful if I do not see his name posted on the home page of propeciahelp.com as a “PFS doctor.” I would have expected to see his name on there if he was known to be a resource to people on this site, so I would just like to get more information from you in regards to what he does exactly.
Plus labs and what is your total all-in cost for the first visit?
500 total for visit. Labs are covered by my medical insurance. I visited him last week. Good guy. Has me doing a blood panel and 24 hour urine panel to test all hormones and get a picture of where I’m at.
wtf, i think chrysl doesn’t want to reveal his protocols because of make more money is better
he claims to be monopolist
i dont’ post too much because i have nothing to say.
my sit is static and i come only for lurking, hoping in some new treatment
I dont post much becase in the begining i “turned so many knobs” i could not tell which things were working and which were making it worse. I need to continue a regimnet for months (not days ) before making changes…so except for questions, or entering updates regarding my current protocle…i lay pretty low. i sometimes post on the mental health stuff just to give new guys some hope.
as far as the doctors go: they all have “boilerplates” that they feel may help. The HRT guy gave everybody the same HRT. Dr. G. is clomiphine and arimidex.
there are alot of guys on here smarter than me…but my gut tells me that 2 things are operative here for me:
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Prostate has been compromised by FIN (the way a drunks liver gets wrecked by booze)
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Blood flow below the belt is somehow compromised
Also: as there are many men who have not connected the dots and just think they are really tired all the time for some unexplained reason - there are also probobly some folks on here who heard about PFS…and then began to manifest the symptoms. The internet hypochondriac phenomenon is real, and the urban legend of men whos dick fell of after using FIN, is out there floating around. My point being that some people may post hot and heavy for a couple of weeks, and then go on to the next obsession. I have posted this before, but I am personally leary of the very short time users who then post the MIRICAL recovery with some kind of diet or vitamin regiment. I think their journey occured in the windmills of thier own mind. its just my opinion though.