Where I'm at

General Discussion
#16

I’m a bit confused about what your position is.

What is it, exactly, that you understand about our condition, or how to fix it, that I don’t?

If you’re saying that eating raw food made you feel better across a number of areas, than I believe you and that is great.

But Awor just said going on antidepressants made him feel better across a number of areas.

Why is one (raw food) a fix to our underlying problem, while the other (antidepressants) is just “treating symptoms”.

Your experience does not show that you ate raw food, and this helped to fix you. It shows that you ate raw food, and felt better. Awor took antidepressants, and felt better.

They are both just different ways of treating symptoms.

We took a powerful endocrine disrupter, as you know. It has done something weird to the way our bodies respond to androgens. You can’t seriously be telling me that you think that this underlying problem can be fixed by eating raw food? You went on a fast and felt better: that is good.

But you’re kidding yourself if you believe it is a “fix” any more than antidepressants, or GHB, Phenibut, etc.

#17

That is still speculation, one of many theories posted on this site which you have now decided for yourself is correct, and are now basing all of your current angst and anxiety on. Until we actually get research done on us, we won’t know for sure if this theory is true.

Like I said before, we need the help of the medical community to investigate our condition and provide us with answers. We can only accomplish this thanks to people like yourself, who make an effort to “stick around” and drive this process forward.

We’re all in this together and as much as things suck, we need to stay focused, positive, and work together to get the answers we seek, from those who can provide them (medical professionals, research scientists willing to help our cause).

Awor has already found such a person – perhaps in time you will too. But you need to actually be here to do that, otherwise it will all be for nothing and we will not make any progress in getting answers, or making Merck pay.

#18

The fact that you are comparing raw food (our natural diet) to antidepressants (toxic pharmaceutical substances) is really shocking to me. Sure, they both make you feel better, but one really makes you feel better on a molecular level. I’m really not going to go into why raw food is better then drugs. Are you kidding me? If you are serious then I feel bad for you. You need to educate yourself on health and you need to do it stat. Seriously.

#19

There is definitely something to this raw foods thing. If there is a jamba juice near any of you, I recommend trying a wheatgrass shot. It doesn’t taste great, but it makes me feel better.

I think offing yourself is a big mistake when the cure could be right around the corner. That’s what keeps me going. I really believe this thing can be fixed.

#20

One important thing I always focus on and I give thanks for it’s that our condition slowly gets better and not worse. That should give us hope. Could you imagine the other way around? Everyday (with our ups and downs) we feel better than the day before.

So hang in there ScaredMale, try to adapt to this new situation. Many of us have seen ourselves near the edge, it’s worth to fight and enjoy again of life. Remember your body heals with time and there are fixes that helps you go through it.

#21

Ok, I’ll take it, then, that

(i) You don’t know anything about our condition or how to fix it that I don’t

(ii) You are kind of confused about exactly what your position is on raw food: maybe it is a fix, maybe it just makes you feel better, you’re not quite sure and perhaps don’t really see the difference.

You ate a raw food diet, and felt better in many ways. That is great. I’m pleased about it.

But the fact remains that it is not a “fix” anymore than antidepressants. You might want to argue that it is a better way of mitigating symptoms than antidepressants, because eating raw food is more healthy than taking medicines, in which case I’d agree with you.

I only object to all the “Oh my God, you guys clearly have learned nothing, you think you can take a pill and just fix this, seriously, I feel bad for you, you need to educate yourself, seriously, etc, etc, etc.”

Can you see how that is a little patronising? Awor clearly isn’t under any misconceptions of that kind, and neither am I. In fact, among all of us Awor seems to have the most thorough understanding of androgen action in the body, and seems to have done most in terms of building an evidence-based understanding of our problem.

#22

If I did, I would have told everyone about it and we would all be on our way to recovery. Which is why I’m telling everyone the next best thing that I have experienced, they could do, which is build health.

Don’t really see how you got that, but I’ll bite anyway. When you eat a biologically appropriate diet, a number of things happen that don’t happen when you take drugs. A good clean diet builds health on the cellular level, which as we all know, is where things happen, good or bad. Drugs never do, and never will. The only things drugs do to the body is rob it of it’s vitality in one shape or form by making the body use it’s energy to act on the drug. You are not suffering from an anti-depressant deficiency, but you may be suffering from many nutritional deficiencies because of taking drugs. Drugs tear down, food builds up. For the record, I believe that if I could stay on the diet long enough, I would be about as cured as I can become, which to what extend that is, I’m not sure. This goes back to the first question. You shouldn’t let my weakness deter you.

I have seen the raw food diet and fasting, cure cancer, heart disease, lyme disease and so many other fucked up things. Yes, I said it, cure cancer. I have not only seen this but have spoke to people that have done it.

I have gotten myself to the point where I can have a decent life and not want to kill myself. The initial feelings of deprivation that come from eating a raw food diet, aren’t worth putting up with right now in my current state. I believe that if I would have stayed on longer, I would be fixed. The time that I did spend raw has given me back so much, and it’s stayed even though I am not eating 100% raw anymore.

Sure it’s difficult. But it’s worth it. We have to stop believing in the magic bullet pill, because it’s not here and probably never will be. Do what is right for yourself and you will reap the rewards. Or, you can do the opposite and see what happens.

This again is a completely ridiculous quote. The “fact” remains that it is more of a fix then antidepressants which can cause permanent damage in their own right. A good, clean, raw diet will never do anything but build health and slowly but surely make you feel better by giving your cells what they need. Basically your stance is that if it feels good, it must be good. So I guess we should all start doing heroin? I’ve never done it, but I bet it would make us feel better? Wouldn’t you? Do you see the difference?

I certainly am not trying to be patronizing. I just don’t know how else to express to everyone how much this works, and how much the other things don’t.

#23

No, that isn’t my stance.

It is you who is conflating something that makes you feel good with something that fixes or cures our underlying problem.

You said earlier that you experience shows that eating raw food helped to fix you. I’m saying that in fact, your experience shows that eating raw food helped to make you feel better. There is a difference between those two statements; can you see it? It is the difference between symptomatic improvement, and a removal of the underlying problem.

Your evidence that raw food helped to fix or cure you is that you ate raw food, and it made you feel better. But we can take antidepressants and feel better, and we don’t imagine that antidepressants fix or cure our underlying problem.

Yes, obviously eating raw food is more healthy than taking antidepressants.

OK, that’s where we’ve been at so far. Now you have introduced the argument that raw food may indeed be a fix because it acts in a certain way that antidepressants don’t. It “builds health on the cellular level”. I’m not sure what that statement really means. I slightly suspect that it doesn’t mean anything at all.

I guess if you believe that eating raw food can cure cancer, then there is a chance that it can cure our underlying problem. Maybe eating raw food can cure cancer. Maybe it sets off some cascade of physiological changes that causes the body to fight back against cancer cells. So maybe eating raw food could set off physiological changes that cause our body to fix, too.

But we have absolutely no evidence that this is the case. We just have evidence that eating raw food can make you feel better. Just like the evidence we have that taking antidepressants can make you feel better. We may as well argue, then, that taking antidepressants could set off a cascade of physiological changes that will cause our body to fix. Of course, none of us believe that. On what basis, then, do we believe it about raw food?

It boils down to this: you can have our condition and live healthily, or you can have our condition and live unhealthily. You’re likely to feel better if you do the former. But let’s not kid ourselves that this gets to the heart of our underlying condition.

See what I mean? You’re not a guy who ate some raw food and was cured, or partly cured, of our condition. You’re a guy who still has our condition just the same, but now feels better in some areas because he ate a healthy diet.

#24

I would say that I am “fixed” in certain areas. Not just feeling better. I no longer have crushing fatigue, its fixed, its gone. I no longer have brain fog, its fixed, its gone. The list goes on and on with things that have been “fixed” for quite some time now and haven’t come back. For someone who was about to off themselves, you sure seem fired up. I’m glad I could help.

I’m sorry you don’t get it. I’m going to leave this thread alone because I can see I’m not getting through and just wasting my time. Again, you need to do some serious study on health. The fact that you again compare food to pharmaceuticals is disturbing. I have given you all of the necessary source information should you choose to use it. Once you are a bit more studied in this area, you will see how ridiculous your comparisons are. Good luck.

#25

No you don’t get it.

All I’m saying is just because X makes you feel better, it doesn’t mean that X is a cure or a fix.

Let’s get this straight one final time.

Your claim that raw food is a fix is based on two points.

(i) It made you feel better

But antidepressants make people feel better. I agree with you that antidepressants are in no way a fix. Already, then, we have established that just because something makes a person feel better, it doesn’t make it a fix.

OK, so what does raw food have that antidepressants don’t? Here’s your second point:

(ii) It’s healthy. More specifically, it “builds health on the cellular level” and can cure cancer.

But what evidence do we have that raw food can “build health on a cellular level” in such a way as to fix our underlying problem? What does “build health on a cellular level” really mean in physiological terms? We don’t even know what the mechanisms that underly our problem are, so how can we know that raw food is acting to fix them? Yes, no doubt raw food is making you feel better. But as we saw above, that is not the same as fixing you.

I think you understand all that. You are just emotionally invested in the idea that eating raw food can cure you. It’s a comforting self-delusion, like Boston’s idea that all that is wrong with us is a prostate infection and if he could just get that killer prostate massage, and hike that perfect trail and take the right antibiotic, then all this would be over.

#26

i´m on rawfood since one month, it works better then every drug i tried and i tried all except of ghb.

I do also meditation one hour a day. The only way to heal is to support your body the best way you can… your body has to heal himself and if you do the right things he will heal

a healthy body makes healthy mind… i absolutely agree with cdnuts

and sure, people cured of cancer just with a clean rawfood diet… people cured of cancer just with the power of the mind… thats why i do also yoga and meditation…

i believe in the healing power of the mind too… like this one

they do qigong on blatter cancer here

youtube.com/watch?v=C9JxW7Jh … annel_page

in china they have clinics without medicince… they do hours of qigong a day and they have success in cases where drugs never will…

you have to fix the root …

#27

The only one who is under any delusion is you, unfortunately. I have given you everything you need to research and understand yet you would rather argue. It is you who is emotionally invested in this, although, I don’t really know why. Again, you need to study and realize what you are arguing about is ridiculous.

#28

OK, it’s got to the stage where I am just repeating the same questions, and you are not answering them.

You can’t tell me why or how raw food is a fix.

I agree with you that if I ate a raw diet, I would probably feel better. It’s certaintly something I’ll consider. I’d rather eat raw food to feel better than take antidepressants to feel better.

I’m not quite sure what delusion you think I’m under. I suppose you think I’m under the delusion that raw food will not cure us. I have become emotionally invested in the idea that raw food will not cure our problem.

Obviously, in reality, I have no feelings one way or another about that idea. It’s just that there is no evidence that raw food will cure our problem. I’m pretty sure the websites you have referred me to will not explain to me how raw food can cure the post-finasteride syndrome. I am not going to be able to “research and understand” how raw food can fix our problem, when no one even understands what causes our problem.

Yes, I can research and understand how raw food benefits health, but that is different, isn’t it? Unless you want to think about the post-finasteride syndrome as just some vague state of general ill-health that can be cured by healthy living. It clearly is not that.

#29

I have directed you to resources that have enough information about this subject to keep you reading for weeks, literally. These resources can do a much better job than I at explaining what I’m trying to get through to you. You are not even bothering to read, but instead argue about it?

NO!! It’s not! You can’t be 100% healthy and suffer from some type of syndrome. That’s a complete false hood. It’s like someone saying, yeah, I’m 350lbs, but I’m healthy. No, you’re not… Or, I have high blood pressure, but I’m healthy. Again, no, you’re not. There is a reason you feel symptoms in your body and it’s because your off center, out of balance, unhealthy. You need to understand what it is to be in a state of health. You can’t be in a state of health yet be unhealthy at the same time. It’s IMPOSSIBLE.

Listen, it doesn’t matter that these sites won’t specifically mention post-fin syndrome. A state of health is a state of health, period. It doesn’t matter if it’s cancer, heart disease, yada, yada, yada. The way to fix yourself being unhealthy and out balance will always be the same for EVERY malady that the body can have. Now, if the damage is permanent this would be the best way to find out, because it would give your body the best chance to become as healthy as it possibly could. But, as I have already mentioned, I have gotten rid of many debilitating symptoms through fasting and raw food. I haven’t been raw for some months and have even went out drinking a few times, yet my symptoms did not return.

This is because the reason for me feeling better was that my body was healing itself from these things, not just covering up the symptoms. If that was the case, I would have come crashing back down once I got off the diet. That hasn’t been the case.

Please, read into the info I have given you. You will learn so much.

#30

Perhaps you should consider the remote possibility that adopting a rabbit’s diet won’t eliminate these problems in everyone, and stop acting holier-than to correspond without preaching and shunning. We’d like to know what you do but you really only respond with defensive remarks.

Despite there being annals of writing on this diet, specifying why this method would be so fabulous would be better than regurgitating the tiring “you’re all ignorant” routine. It can’t be harder than a few sentences of relevant information. Every raw food website I’ve seen drones on redundantly, making finding the answers to these questions like finding a needle in a haystack.

I’m not coming down on this diet at all and I’m thrilled it has erased a portion of this condition from you, but everyone’s needs differ and to get through the day and remain strong, they require proper supplementation and energy. There’s a reason why the response to low energy and hunger is to eat.

To say something on this thread’s subject (aka wall of text, lol)…

I, like anyone in our situation, have definitely crossed the threshold where I concluded that my quality of life is annihilated, the impressions I leave on others due to these symptoms deeply damaging and perturbing to my heart, and looked at ending my life as a satisfying solution to living in truth rather than living as a facsimile - a warped version of myself - with no outside help or recognition. I think my worst days are behind me, however, and as the months elapse you do sort of get a sense of a healthy body and mind again. You must work hard at it and exercise discipline. I used to be so brain fogged that I couldn’t satisfactorily describe and explain this illness to others, and when they would not understand or work with me, I felt very much like people were, by intent or ignorance, detracting from my chances of recovery. Now I feel much better, and am glad to know that I do have a doctor that understands what I’m going through and can offer help. It’s important to be honest with others in situations like these, and to suspend your pride if need be, because this dilemma does demand that we get support from others.

Of course, my recent success has me happier, too. Like ithappens said, I know that it is possible to reverse the ailment and be free of the burdens. Life is attainable again, it just requires a keen medical eye. Again I’ll say that I disagree that I was just “on drugs” - I was on an alleviator of my symptoms, which ushered my endocrine system into functionality again. I’ll have more to say after the sleep study, but likening this to crack is the wrong attitude. Recreational drugs are momentary “treatments” and have their own serious risks. What I used was prolonged until I became tolerant, and lasted many days beyond application, so I was not high - just functional. Please try to not be so negative about it, unless you think every medication belongs in the same category as crack.

Beyond the frivolous debating though, you should probably step away from the website and just enjoy nature. Get your mind off of this situation, and focus more on your everyday life. I guess what I’m saying is, fuck this shit. Be there for your friends and family. Your honest post is quite appreciated, but pulling through is better than hurting yourself and those around you.

#31

Okay, so kill yourself before you even give it a try and see. Or even read the material being offered to you. Makes alot of sense.

I’ve said it plenty of times and in a non-holier-than-thou way. I’ve fasted and went on a raw food diet. I’ve even given the specific references I’ve used along with the exact websites. Your haystack just got alot smaller. I don’t know how much more I can break that down.

This is why it is better to read some of the info I posted rather than having me try and dole it out. It’s like coming to a book club meeting where no one else has read the book but you, it doesn’t work. You are correct in the above statement that when you are hungry, you should eat. Unless you are fasting.

Supervised fasting is a natural and physiological adaptation that all humans have from back when we couldn’t go grab a burger at the corner. Many things happen during a fast. One of them is rapid detoxification. Something every post fin user needs. Did you know that as long as you have body fat, you don’t need to eat, as long as you drink water? Most people don’t know that, and are actually fascinated by it. I have seen people fast as long as nine weeks. That’s 9 weeks. Body fat, just like in say, a bear, is there for fuel and storage of body material to be used a later time. Fasting burns through those reserves and gets rid of anything you may be holding onto that can be hurting you. It is not the same as losing weight by exercise. The physiological rest is also very beneficial for your whole system. You completely detox everything and start with fresh new pure material, supplied by a raw food diet. Everything slows down and rests.

When you are fasting you are not going through your normal day. You can’t. You have to rest and lay around. That’s it. Your not out driving around and what not. You completely rest your whole body. No digestion, no nothing. You are so refreshed after a fast it is unbelievable. Your adrenals are fresh and rested. Your brain is clear as are you thoughts. You just feel better. And not better in a put a patch on it pill popping way. In a way that you know certain things are gone. You can feel it. You really should experience it for yourself.

Is is hard? It can be at times. No body said starving yourself was any fun. But is living all finned out? Really, you should look into it.

#32

hello ScaredMale,

I just want to tell you that there are people like me who have recovered 90% and more.

I had no improvement during one year post fin, and believe me, I was feeling horrible : ED, hard brainfog, chest pain, gyno, heart crazy palpitations, etc. etc. and it was constant : every day, every hour, every second. Nightmare.

Then I slowly got better till now, where the nightmare is clearly part of the past.

So first try to be positive and think of the people who recovered rather than those who didn’t, that’s what I always did, even in the darkest days of my post fin condition, and I’m sure it helped a bit.

Good luck man

#33

hello,hope i’m not speaking too early,but has been something like 2 weeks and now i’m at a point where i can say that i think to be on the real right track of the recovery,stil not 100% but going well . So my plan is to have the same fucking bloodtests next week to see what has gone on ,because the recovered ppl still here on the forum never took bloodtests after their recovery . I do this for me,to understand what hormones to push more and for you all to try to figure out (on hormonal balances) what’s going on… hope this help .

#34

I take it Mew has added the ‘legal disclaimer’ in case we all go off and starve ourselves or get hooked on anti-d’s after this thread? Maybe I could sue 'cos there wasn’t enough importance attached to weening off. :imp: j/k

#35

ScaredMale30 i have been trough hell on earth, at least that’s what
i think. I suffered badly. Can you imagined a normal guy with A cup
size breasts. It is not a pretty image but that is who i am right know.

Yes you are correct we can only mitigate some of the symptoms by
taking varius drugs. I for my self take Arimidex, so as long as i take it
i feel much better and if i do not take it, gradually i feel worst again.

But somewhere down the road there is a possibility of cure for all of
us, why would you end your life when there is still possibility? we
can do this all we need to do is to stay focus on our goal.

That is to find out what the hell is wrong with us. As long as we still guessing i dont think it is wise for you to think that this is irreversible.

One more thing do you think it is fair if you quit on your family ?
Just think how devastating your mother and father would be if you
decide to kill your self. All those time when they put all that energy
and effort to safeguard you from baby to where you are right now and
you decided to quit on them.

The answer is no, and for your info i was thinking about killing myself
a long time ago and that very same thought stop me from doing it.