Where I'm at

General Discussion
#1

Let’s face it, we’re irreversibly fucked.

Having read all the case studies, and considerd what is most likely to have happened us, that’s were I’m at.

There are guys who haven’t recovered who are eight years + off Propecia. There is no recovery from this condition. We can mitigate some of the symptoms by taking GHB, crack, or God knows what else, but that’s it. Something has changed about the way we respond to androgens, and it is permanent.

I was on the verge of a beautiful life. Massive career success. It took me 15 years of hard slog to get there. Now, all that is gone.

I’m going to find the easiest way to kill myself, and do it. Hope I’ve got the guts.

#2

i’ve been there man trust me but me and a few others are proof that this can be reversed or at least partially to some extent. about a year ago I was in the same place you were so I can relate, but after pursuing the various items to try to fix all of this I slowly got better over that time to the point now where I’m very much better and almost back to where I was. It’s a difficult road but you have to try to calm down and keep on goin as hard as it can be at times.

#3

Thanks for the encouragement Ithappens.

I’ve read your case. You didn’t suffer the sexual sides, right? It was only ever a sleep problem for you?

#4

i suffered sexual sides too it just wasn’t to the extreme that some other users on here have had. i still was in hell with my sleep, mental, and physical problems etc. a word of advice from my perspective when using this site is that while i read a lot of the other sections i stay from the member stories as i find them too depressing so maybe that will help. However, i would advise against offing yourself anytime soon for the simple point that over the past couple years certain users have tried different approaches and it seems there are some new insights and items which may help get us over all of this that are starting to come out. I can’t guarantee anything but think of in a year or two if we figure out something to end all of this for most of us and you’re dead, what a waste that would be.

#5

Yeah, it would be.

But I really doubt that anything is going to be found. No one knows for certain what has happened to us. The best bet is an epigentic change in the function of the androgen receptor. If you check out the case studies, it doesn’t seem to be reversible. I wanted to believe that it is, but it isn’t.

I can’t live like this. I already pulled myself out of the shit once in my life. I was so close to being someone. Now I never will be. I’m likely infertile. I can spend the next 40 years battling ED, no libido, chronic insomnia, bone and muscle pain, and chronic brain fog. I can take my chances with osteoporosis, early onset dementia, and heart disease. I can drag myself out of bed every morning feeling like shit. Or I can end it now.

Never thought it would come to this, but I’m out.

#6

Life is what you make it. Bottom line. You can choose to take the route it seems you may have already decided on, or you can choose to do something about it.

Whining, bitching and being negative are going to bring you nothing but more negativity.

If you want to kill yourself, why don’t you try starving yourself to death. I guarantee by week two you will have a change of heart…

#7

ScaredMale30 – first of all, considering suicide is not the answer. People from all walks of life have terrible things happen to them during their life, and they find ways to live as full a life as possible. We are not quadrapalegics, for instance, yet people who are adapt and find beauty in all life has to offer – it’s just a different way of going through life compared to before, that’s all.

For the time being, you need to ACCEPT your condition as the way things are for now, for the time being. That’s what I and others have done, as a way to compartmentalize the emotional impact and go on with life in the meantime as we try to resolve things. Yes, things aren’t as good in the sexual department, but that doesn’t mean one can’t have a full life in every other area.

We really don’t know if this is “permanent” yet, and nobody knows if epigenetic changes are in fact at the root of the matter – that is still all just a theory which has yet to be proven. So getting all worked up over it is pretty pointless at this stage.

It would be far better to focus your energies and concerns on getting involved from a legal standpoint, to make a difference, and make Merck pay for what you have suffered. Without any action, more and more men will end up like us – how can we let this go on? If you are not here to effect change, it won’t happen… same goes with drawing media and medical attention to our issues. The anger that you have directed at yourself should be redirected towards Merck… otherwise it will consume you to the point you have gotten now. You need to learn to accept it wasn’t our fault, it was the drug company, and they are the ones who must pay. Only you can make a difference if you are around to make that difference.

I would seriously reconsider your position. No matter how hard it gets, there is light at the end of the tunnel… we still have friends, family, loved ones etc and that is what is truly important at the end of the day, even if we were quadrapalegic or had some other affliction.

Stay focused, stay strong, and together we can make a difference. If it makes any difference, we certainly appreciate your insights around here. Maybe you should just take a break from this site and try and forget about all the discussion here for awhile, clear your head, take a vacation. Enjoy everything else life has to offer and realise that everything spoken about here, for the most part is opinion and hypothetical, we are just laymen and not scientists… I hope this message finds you well and you can relax.

#8

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#9

This was a comment referencing the successful 21 day fast that I undertook in October. It wasn’t meant to be taken literally. Though, I can almost guarantee that after not eating for awhile you would start to feel better. I did. You are toxic. Your body is fucked that’s why you have no appetite. The medical model has everyone gripped tight around here and I don’t think even more than two people on this site have even given it serious consideration although there is tons of info out there on it.

I have overcome brainfog, extreme fatigue, pain, and confidence issues ALL stemming from fucking fin use. I’m sure I’m missing some things as well that I got over. Just as well. Out of sight out of mind. Good riddens. In the sex department I can now have sex at will, although the sensitivity and fullness of erections vary depending on the time of day and my mood, which has also become WAY more positive. I would say out of everything I’ve done so far, the fast has been the number one thing that I would recommend.

I used to think that only tree hugging “spiritual” hippie type people fasted and did things like a raw food diet. You know what? IT WORKS. I bet out of most of the people here, I’m most improved. (this obviously is a competely opinionated statement) I was a g-damn wreck. Out of my mind hopeless.

Look, your talking about suicide before even looking into it or giving it a try! That to me is ridiculousness at it’s best. Wouldn’t you say? If you really want to die, then just stop eating. See how you feel. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE. I KNOW YOU WILL START TO FEEL BETTER. It’s just the nature of things…

#10

I know exatly what it means been disperate cause in october it ll be my 4th years of sides effect but from what i can,what if the problem is just about our brain damage? i would like you to try the pregnenolone cream bacause it’s so amizing how i was suffering hard sides for 3,5 years and in just 2 weeks i’m on my right way…i dn t know if i ll ever get rid from this mess nobody can say it,but why you guys don t try this pregnenolone/progesterone cream?..i decided to try it just because of reading from here ,our forum. so,i don t think it is an irreversible situation,i don t think that;i also think at suicide many times,but i think that if taking good care of the right part of our body (the brain damaged is one of the biggest ever from propecia,i think)we can get rid .

#11

I think also that if we do keep fighting then something will turn up, some discovery which may help with a cure. As has been said stem cell research could help us.

How can one pill do so much damage? If there is a worse form of medication out there I’d be surprised. I think that the tide is turning against big pharma and a corrupt FDA, as it is against evil corporate interests generally. This is perhaps naive but true to an extent. It’s just a shame that for me it’s coincided with my downfall.

#12

Guys, hang in there. I’ve been there too, the darkest thoughts of my life. Can’t say I’m completely over this “phase”, but it’s a lot better than it used to be. Do not underestimate your body’s ability to heal itself. By taking Fin we tried to control our hair loss. Maybe we’re all the kind of people that like things to be under our control. But unfortunately, we can’t control our current condition. There is nothing we can do that will reliably solve the problem. So the problem seems unsurmountable to us. Add depression to that and you’ve got a very dangerous combo. You MUST take this VERY seriously. Some of us will possibly need years to get better to the point where life makes sense again. But as opposed to the quadrapalegics that Mew mentioned, we at least have a CHANCE to get better. The prime objective is to live to see that day. I wouldn’t be here writing these lines if I hadn’t done something against depression. Allthough I am very critical about classic SSRI’s, due to the potential health risk involved (PSSD), I am currently using a combo of two Antidepressants which have a very good track record in terms of permanent side effects:

Remeron: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remeron
Edronax: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edronax

Remeron is taken before going to bed and significantly improves sleep. Sleep is probably to most important aspect in recovering from anything.

Edronax is taken in the morning and gives you a mental “kick”, helps clearing out brain fog and will give you better chances to survive in your job. This is of particular importance given the current economic situation.

I am not saying these drugs have no side effects and zero risk. Every drug has a risk. But for those us who have more than “just” sexual sides, getting depression under control can be a matter of life or death.

I can really suggest to give this combination a try. Start at a very low dose (7.5mg Remeron and Edronax 2mg). You should notice immediate improvement within 24hours (much better sleep and cognitive capabilities). Remeron can also make you slightly horny and should give you nocturnal/morning erections. Give it a try. If you don’t notice clear results within 48 hours or don’t feel comfortable with it for whatever reason, you can chuck it again.

1 Like
#13

OMG. It seems many of you truly learned nothing. Good luck. May what ever you choose to do not make you worse in the end or dig you deeper into misery.

This is why drugs are not the answer. Mark my words. There is not going to be any drug that can “fix” us. I can’t believe you guys don’t get it yet. I really think the majority of people here think to themselves…“well, I took a pill that fucked me up, so I guess there should be a pill that makes me better.” GUYS, IT DOESN’T WORK LIKE THAT. We have to build health. Not treat symptoms.

www.rawfoodexplained.com

www.foodnsport.com

I wish everyone here the best of luck. You’re going to need it.

#14

It’s quite clear that Awor is not under the impression that antidepressants will fix our underlying problem. He is just saying that they have brought about symptomatic improvement when it comes to mood, sleep and mental clarity. He’s also saying that this symptomatic improvement has made the difference between an intolerable situation and one that is tolerable.

I’m sure we all realise that antidepressants don’t get to the heart of our problem. Then again, neither does raw food. You can eat a ton of lettuce every day for the rest of your life, and you may feel better - which is great - but it’s not going to fix you, as you know.

Our problem, at present, can’t be fixed. We don’t even know what it is. I’m certainly not under the impression that there is a pill out there that will fix it, and neither is Awor or any other reasonably intelligent reader of this forum. That means that all you can do, then, is mitigate symptoms. You might do that by taking more meds, or you might do it by living a healthy lifestyle. If anything brings some relief, then great.

But lets not pretend that eating raw food in any way gets to the heart of this problem any more than taking antidepressants, or that you understand something that the rest of us “don’t get”.

#15

That is a completely ridiculous statement. Whose pretending? Well, I think I do understand something that you don’t, that’s clear from your statements.

How do I know it’s not going to fix me? I would like you to tell me. My experience shows different. Better yet, how do you know? Have you tried it? I would guess, no, you haven’t. I have seen MUCH improvement. How about you? I don’t want to kill myself anymore. Been there, done that. If I would have stayed on the diet, would I have healed more? It completely stands to reason, that yes, I probably would. I am going to give it another go this summer, when the food is at it’s height. I’m not going to argue with you because you are obviously very ill informed when it comes to raw food and health. Not to mention in a very weak place emotionally right now.

I highly suggest you read as much as you can on the two websites I have listed. It would do everyone a world of good.

There are no contraindications to healthful living.

#16

I’m a bit confused about what your position is.

What is it, exactly, that you understand about our condition, or how to fix it, that I don’t?

If you’re saying that eating raw food made you feel better across a number of areas, than I believe you and that is great.

But Awor just said going on antidepressants made him feel better across a number of areas.

Why is one (raw food) a fix to our underlying problem, while the other (antidepressants) is just “treating symptoms”.

Your experience does not show that you ate raw food, and this helped to fix you. It shows that you ate raw food, and felt better. Awor took antidepressants, and felt better.

They are both just different ways of treating symptoms.

We took a powerful endocrine disrupter, as you know. It has done something weird to the way our bodies respond to androgens. You can’t seriously be telling me that you think that this underlying problem can be fixed by eating raw food? You went on a fast and felt better: that is good.

But you’re kidding yourself if you believe it is a “fix” any more than antidepressants, or GHB, Phenibut, etc.

#17

That is still speculation, one of many theories posted on this site which you have now decided for yourself is correct, and are now basing all of your current angst and anxiety on. Until we actually get research done on us, we won’t know for sure if this theory is true.

Like I said before, we need the help of the medical community to investigate our condition and provide us with answers. We can only accomplish this thanks to people like yourself, who make an effort to “stick around” and drive this process forward.

We’re all in this together and as much as things suck, we need to stay focused, positive, and work together to get the answers we seek, from those who can provide them (medical professionals, research scientists willing to help our cause).

Awor has already found such a person – perhaps in time you will too. But you need to actually be here to do that, otherwise it will all be for nothing and we will not make any progress in getting answers, or making Merck pay.

#18

The fact that you are comparing raw food (our natural diet) to antidepressants (toxic pharmaceutical substances) is really shocking to me. Sure, they both make you feel better, but one really makes you feel better on a molecular level. I’m really not going to go into why raw food is better then drugs. Are you kidding me? If you are serious then I feel bad for you. You need to educate yourself on health and you need to do it stat. Seriously.

#19

There is definitely something to this raw foods thing. If there is a jamba juice near any of you, I recommend trying a wheatgrass shot. It doesn’t taste great, but it makes me feel better.

I think offing yourself is a big mistake when the cure could be right around the corner. That’s what keeps me going. I really believe this thing can be fixed.

#20

One important thing I always focus on and I give thanks for it’s that our condition slowly gets better and not worse. That should give us hope. Could you imagine the other way around? Everyday (with our ups and downs) we feel better than the day before.

So hang in there ScaredMale, try to adapt to this new situation. Many of us have seen ourselves near the edge, it’s worth to fight and enjoy again of life. Remember your body heals with time and there are fixes that helps you go through it.