Applying DHT gel/cream to chest (breasts) should theoretically at least keep gyno in check. Does anyonhe know if such a product is on the market? I looked at Andractim but am confused. On the one hand Ascend/Belsin seems to have such a product in clinical phase III trials. On the other, a UK based company is also selling a product under that name. There also seem to be fakes etc. on the market. Does anybody have a clearer picture on this topic?
BTW: I am not talking about some form of testosterone gel because in our case it won’t convert to DHT like it should. Hence the idea to directly apply DHT gel to target areas. Of course this won’t solve the problem globally because DHT is not serum based and will get neutralized in the body through other enzymes, specially in muscle tissue.
Yes It does indeed do that where gynecomastia is developing due to a lack of androgens or often when it is due to a poor androgen to estrogen balance.
Andractim has passed phase three trials in certain European countries (Belgium for instance) and has long been prescribed to treat hypogonadism and gynecomastia for which it is licensed. Andractim is dihydrotestosterone (DHT) gel and it is produced by Besins pharmaceutical company.
Where do you get that idea from?
The fact is what you have said here is simply not true for most people post finasteride use, something that is evidenced by pathology.
You cannot presume that a lack of DHT or an inability to metabolize testosterone to the by-product androgen dihydrotestosterone is the cause of symptoms post finasteride use.
Pathology is required by a competent andrologist/reproductive endocrinologist and a proper evaluation of what is actually causing symptoms is required.
To just treat with DHT because you have symptoms post finasteride use is like a medical game of pin the tail on the donkey. Often problems post finasteride use are as a result of a low level of testosterone and or elevated SHBG or estradiol. In such cases DHT will not remotely help.
If DHT does not work it your body, then it doesn’t work in your body irrespective of the method of application. For most people the issue is not low DHT post finasteride, for the minority of men where DHT is the problem, it is a lack of DHT, not an inability of the body to use it that is the problem.
Why are you trying to use medical terminology and concepts that you do not understand?
What you have said is like pseudo medical science, it just doesn’t have any basis in fact.
DHT is a metabolite of testosterone just as estradiol is and it can be measured in serum just as testosterone and estradiol can be measured.
DHT is not particularly anabolic unlike testosterone so it doesn’t really have much of a role to play at all in terms of muscle tissue- it isn’t neutralized in the manner you speak of.
DHT has a half life just as other hormones do, the half life of DHT is quite small, which is why DHT is harder to test for and less often tested than testosterone.
The bottom line is that you require hormone pathology to identify the nature of the problem post finasteride use, then and only then should a competent clinician treat on the basis of what is found.
If you throw DHT or in fact any medication at the problem then you are trying to pin the tail on the donkey, flying blind and all those other similar analogies.
P.S
I have hypogoandism, I have been prescribed Andractim gel and many other medications, I have had DHT tested and I have seen thousands of pathology results, many from men who have taken finasteride and am aware of many of the effects post use in terms of pathology.
Thanks for your post and your insight into these issues.
I am assuming that DHT has somehow left my system because I
a. am feeling a burning sensation in my chest and
b. am missing a burning sensation in my scalp, which i used to have on gel
Too much DHT used to make me very sensitive and very horny (also agressive), I also remember what it felt like to not have enought dht (numbness, no libido - like now).
That is why I am so focused on the problem being DHT (in my case).
For the rest, I agree with you. Supplementing DHT by my own is not an option which I would consider doing unless it is recommend by my endo.
My understanding about DHT is that serum levels do not mean that local levels are corret. In other words, you can have a normal serum level of DHT and at the same time have insufficient local levels because 5ar might be working correctly in some areas of the body and not in others.
Btw, I do have doctors treating me and will listen to them for now.
A)
Assumptions when it comes to hormones and the diagnosis of such problems is the mother of all mess-ups. You should never assume anything in these matter, rather you should go off of the pathology and symptoms with the help of a competent treating forward thinking endocrinologist or andrologist.
B)
A burning feeling in the chest can amongst other things be caused by the proliferation/increase in gynecomastia tissue. If you have previously been on finasteride and seem to be developing some breast tissue then this is the most likely cause of this sensation. Gynecomastia is not simply caused by a lack of DHT and although finasteride initially reduces DHT and can cause gynecomastia via this mechanism, gynecomastia is often the result of a poor androgen to estrogen ratio generally and this is often seen in men post finasteride use due to a whole host of hormonal changes only one of which is reduced DHT. In fact reduced DHT post finasteride use is far less common than low testosterone or low free testosterone or elevated SHBG and/or elevated estradiol post finasteride use, at least that is true from all the pathologies I have seen. So whilst low DHT is a very likely cause of gynecomastia on finasteride (something detailed themselves in the literature by Merck) it is less likely to be the cause in my view of gynecomastia developing post finasteride use.
You mention a burning sensation you used to have on gel……what gel are you referring to and why would a lack of such a sensation automatically relate to lowered DHT and even if it did, why would that automatically correspond with the cause of your symptoms?
You are jumping to conclusions/assumptions, the mother of all-mess-ups- if acted upon.
A) How do you know your DHT is low now unless it is measured?
B) How do you know it was higher pre treatment unless you had a baseline level taken?
C) How do you know that your libido and aggression were not etc were not as a result of a testosterone level that has since fallen or an SHBG that has since increased or an estradiol level that has since increased- either of which could cause a crucial reduced free testosterone level?
D) Looking at the above question, if you have not had these hormones testsed and evaluated and if you didn’t have a baseline prior to finasteride use, how do you know what has caused your symptoms?
Your understandable logic;
A)Finasteride lowers DHT
B) It absolutely would have lowered your DHT on treatment.
C) You had symptoms on treatment
D) You have been left with symptoms
E) You therefore presume that DHT must be the problem
The problem is the logic and the reality might not meet and in fact because of the complex nature of finasterides mechanisms and the problems it often cause, the logic is probably wrong.
I will go further;
DHT is probably not the problem, though it could be.
You need a proper and full evaluation of your situation by the aforementioned doctors.
I hope you can get competent help, something that is far from easy.
Fair enough. I am not qualified to make assumptions and the whole thing is probably a lot more complicated than I can imagine.
You wrote:
For point D), are you suggesting finasteride might have nothing to do with my problems?
Since I have been on TRT since years many of these things have been measured in the past. So I do have baseline info for everything you mentioned except DHT. I am currently not in posession of much of the tests (the doctor has them) but will go by the lab tonite to pick some copies. I will then compile the info in an excel and post it. Can you relate to european units or shall i convert them?
