When few days could cost you a whole life!

Welcome to our community. Please fill in the following template as a way of introducing yourself, and helping others to understand your background and situation.

Where are you from (country)? Eastern Europe

How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?) Google, Propecia side effects

What is your current age, height, weight? 36, 174cm, 72kg

What specific drug did you use (finasteride, dutasteride, saw palmetto, isotretinoin/Accutane, fluoxetine, sertraline, citalopram, leuprorelin, etc…)? Saw Palmetto, Regaine

What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)? 1800 mg divided on 2 servings

What condition was being treated with the drug? Hair loss

For how long did you take the drug (weeks/months/years)? 2.5 days - Saw Palmetto, 6 months - Regaine

How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start the drug? 34 years old/17.03.2017 - Saw Palmetto, 33 years old/09.2016 - Regaine

How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit? 34 years old/19.03.2017

How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)? Cold turkey

How long into your usage did you notice the onset of side effects? With the Saw Palmetto on the second day, with the Regaine noticed some strange stuff going on that I didn’t pay attention at that time

What side effects did you experience that have yet to resolve since discontinuation? Joint issues (Stiff, dry, clicking joints), Low libido, flu-like symptoms

Check the boxes that apply. You can save your post first, then interactively check/uncheck the boxes by clicking on them. If your symptoms change, please update your list.

Sexual
Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
Erectile Dysfunction
Complete Impotence
Loss of Morning Erections
Loss of Spontaneous Erections
Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
Reduced Ejaculate
Inability or Difficulty to Ejaculate / Orgasm
Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Confusion
Memory Loss / Forgetfulness
Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
Slurring of Speech
Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
Severe Depression / Melancholy
Suicidal Thoughts

Physical
Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
Testicular Pain
Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
Prostate pain
Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Tinnitus (ringing or high pitched sound in ears)
Hearing loss
Increased hair loss
Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

Other (please explain)

What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug? I tried a lot of things, I can only suspect that certain things helped me for certain symptoms, will mention what I did and what helped me IMO down the thread

If you have pre or post-drug blood tests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (please post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)? After I crashed
09.Oct 2017
D.H.E.A. Sulphate - 9.4 umol/L (0.44 - 13.4)
FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE - 4.3 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)
LUTEINISING HORMONE - 4.3 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)
TESTOSTERONE - 12.0 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.4)
Reference Ranges apply to adults
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOB - 29 nmol/L (16 - 55)
Testosterone/SHBG Ratio - 41.4 (24 - 104)

28 Jan 2019

TESTOSTERONE - 11.2 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.4)
Reference Ranges apply to adults
17-Beta OESTRADIOL - 87 pmol/L < 192

Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience?

Tell us your story, in your own words, about your usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

Hello guys! Been here for almost 2 years observing and trying to find solution for my issues, today I decided that it will be good idea to share my story and experience with this excruciating condition. As I mentioned above, my issues began after I took Saw Palmetto to combat hair loss, before I took it I was taking Regaine foam for 6 months. I knew about Propecia and its long lasting sides and I was trying to evade it knowing because of that. One day I came across a shampoo with Saw Palmetto, then I google it and saw that it is a DHT inhibitor, but “Natural”, that word put me right in the trap as you can see now…I am living in London at the moment ,at that moment I took this poison I was in London too. The Saw Palmetto was berries, not extract, the daily serving according the label was 1800mg twice a day. When I took it at the first day I felt strange, the second day I got hit right away with brain fog, rubber dick, spaced out felt like I was on another planet. I was at work at this day, I remember that I was like drunk and high at the same time, I was doing something, after few minutes I was like, WTF I am doing here! I took 8 tablets in total, enough to suffer almost 2 years? According a lot of people I am probably mad and I need to go to psychologist :slight_smile:
I lost my nocturnals and the morning wood right away on the day I got hit, then I panicked after I discovered that basically Saw Palmetto can cause the same damage as Fin/Propecia. Had almost 2 weeks rally when one day I drunk huge cup of coffee and got panic attack, something I’ve never had ever in my life from a coffee. Then before I crashed I ate salad with a lot of fetta in it, I was speaking with one guy at that moment, PFS sufferer from Canada, on the way home I got pain in my legs and I was like, oh I am getting flu I guess, this guy told me that it is not a flu, it is the Saw Palmetto I didn’t believe him. Then the next day I woke up with huge brain fog, fatigue, anxiety, the pain in the legs got worse, the following weeks I got insomnia on top of all that. The brain fog was so bad at that time, it was constant pressure on my forehead and scalp, I wasn’t able to read, I would stare into the word and nothing could come in my head. I went down from 72kg to 62 within a months. Frankly I don’t know what exactly crashed me, I think it was the cheese, or the coffee, or the excessive ejaculation, that was something normal for me before SP, I was hyper-sexual with the boner all along throughout the day, it could be any of these, or all of them… Throughout the months after that I tried not to take any supplements as my GP told me in few months I will get back to normal, in fact 3,5 month after the crash I got almost fully recovered, no pain, not brain fog, I had only low libido, but it wasn’t low enough to bother me as I though I will get better and better within the time. On the sixth month my GF decided to put me in huge stress, I started to smoke again and one day I went in the bed for two days with fever, all my symptoms relapsed and I got one more complication, my joints began to click and hurt really bad along with the muscle flu-like pain, my right knee was clicking really bad my right arm was so in pain that I wasn’t able to touch my shoulder. My weight got even worse and went down from 62kg to 56kg. Strangely the frequent ejaculation was giving me worsening of the symptoms, so I was not able to do it as I use to do it before. As I was not able to tolerate dairy I couldn’t put even 1kg weight on at all, apparently I had gut issues. I got some supplements at that time, I had to do something about it as I saw that the recovery I was counting on was slipping off my hands. At this time I was taking Vit D3 + K2, by the way the joint clicking started shortly after that, and I suspect the Vit K2 is the culprit as I saw one thread in SolvePFS, there is a guy there with the nickname Konflick, he got fucked his joints after taking Methyl Vit B12 and K2. I went taking cold showers, they gave me back the nocturnals and the morning wood the brain fog persisted for almost an year after that but is got better within the time to the state I was feeling only like drunk, on 2 beers, the insomnia appeared shortly after the both crashes but in both of the cases vanished after few weeks. Some more supps I took after the second crash were:
Tribulus Terrestris
Tribulus Alatus
Brahmi
Ginger, Curcumin and Boswellia
Lion’s Mane
mucuna pruriens and shilajit
Kind of CDnuts herbs, they kind of helped but not much in my case.
One thing that helped me with the gut issues was one stuff promoted from Dr. Batmandhelidj, simple solution of water and sea or himalayan salt, 1/4tsp to 1lt water, I did put some lemon in it in addition. i was following his advise to drink the watter like more than 2lt a day, morning on empty stomach, then wait for 30 min, then eat, then drink only 2.5 hours after the meal. I followed that for nearly 6 months then introduced myself to diary again and started to eat like I used to do prior SP, I managed to recover my weight completely, the muslce wastage too. Currently I am taking LCLT, BCAA, Vit D3, Vit C and Cissus Quadrangularis. Brain fog is gone, some days I have it but it is nothing comparing to what it was when I crashed. The nocturnals are recovered like 80-90%. Tried to ejaculate 3-4 times per day and didn’t crash or got worse. My legs muscles don’t hurt anymore as much as before, to the state that now I can feel that the joints are really bad. Before I didn’t pay attention as my whole legs were fucked. I know the main issue is the low T. I am thinking to start TRT, hope that will reduce the joint issues.
Any advise from you guys will be highly appreciated!

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So cold showers gave back your morning woods? Sorry but this is really strange and funny. It must be something else. Also you said that you did recover from the side effects in few months before the first crash. This is also something we don’t experience here. Anyways, stay strong and try to recover again. Time will show.

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I crashed 2 times first time was few weeks after I got off the herb, I suffered badly 3.5 months, then I got better in a way that I had issues only with the nocturnals and the low weight. Kept like that 1.5-2 months then I crashed again, even worse than the first crash. About the cold showers, it could be something else indeed, as I was loading bunch of herbs at this time. Cheers!

Forgot to mention above… one of my sides is supersensitive skin, mostly on the legs when they are fatigued. Sometimes it goes all around my whole body. It was really bad before, not it is almost gone, somedays I can still feel it in lesser degree of course. Cheers!

Are your sexual side effects 100% gone? You are lucky and be able to recover with time. Do you experience any low semen, bad orgasm problems? If so, were they gone? It is also weird that some guys experienced general low skin sensivity among the whole body. In your case its the opposite.

Also don’t use TRT. It will kill your natural Testesterone production. TRT is a lifelong treatment. Use Proviron or Nolvadex if you want to, talk to your doc. and do some bloodtests pls.

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The sexual sides, are not gone completely, I have most of the times nocturnals now, also some days I have boners when I have sexual thoughts, but it is not as it was used to be. The sexual activity sometimes gives me increased brain fog, or flu-like symptoms in my legs. Probably this is some kind of post-orgasmic issue. Semen seams to be fine, when I crashed it was a bit watery I suppose, but not in degree that could get me worried. This condition is a total joke, I still cannot believe I got so fucked up from a herb. Yeah, that sensitivity issue is really annoying. Cheers!

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I am desperate about my joints bro! Maybe I got lucky because my sexual sides are not as severe as the oter guys here. But I have hard time to work and do my regular daily stuff because of the joints issue. Also I am afraid that my cartilages could wear off because of thar. Then I will be totally fucked. Thanks for the TRT advice!

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Update:
Currently I am staying away from any self-supplementing as the worsening I got was due to experimenting with supplements and vitamins. I don’t advice anyone reading this thread to experiment with his body the way I did.
God bless you all!

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Do you consider carnivore or keto diet? I think everybody in this forum should try this. Im mentally very depressed due to hospital visitings these days. But it actually make me feel better sexually. I have better flaccid penis and experienced 4 morning woods on this diet!

Im still doing it its my second week.

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Yes and no :slight_smile:
Here in London the meat is not that healthy to consider a proper carnivore as viable solition. Probably if I get an organic meat, but mate, I don’t really trust what the labes says anymore lol
I am trying weekly 36 hours dry fasting, hope it will help as I have no other cards in my sleeve.

Meat (beef) in the uk is mostly grass fed and free range chicken isn’t that expensive if you buy in bulk. I think carnivore is very doable here. Check this link out https://greatbritishmeat.com/blogs/butchers-blog/do-we-sell-grass-fed-beef

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Thanks man, will try it out, should be better than the Morrisson’s meat :slight_smile:

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Hey Cooper,

How’s your diet going? I might try Paleo, keto, or carnivore.

Can you please explain a typical day of eating?

I’m so sick of waking up depressed with no libido and limp penis. Gotta try new stuff lol

Hey, my diet is going good actually. Some morning wood came back and my flaccid penis looks bigger than usual. That made me really happy and optimistic. But thats fluctates. Sometimes no morning wood…

Other than that i didn’t saw any improvements so far :confused: I lost 5kg’s and this is my third week on Carnivore diet. I want to end this thing in saturday. I eat eggs and meat all day. Nothing else. In mornings, i eat eggs with some tuna fish and lunch is usually steaks… but this gets really boring… i have a strong will and can even do it for 2 weeks more but i think those 2 weeks wouldn’t change my symptoms, i think its not worth for me to go more.

I tried to PM that message to you but just left it in the thread lol. I might try to eat more meat like your doing but also maybe add some greens. The only issue is I’m an ectomorph and will lose weight fast. I’m going to wait on carnivore till after my trip later this month because I’m going with a girl and want to look good.

I’m the strongest I’ve ever been despite this condition because I’ve been trying to fight back by hitting the gym. 225lb max bench at 160lbs…

I think I get more nocturnals and occasional weak morning wood when I lift heavy and ED is definitely improved. Adding the carnivore diet I’m hoping will push this to the next level

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I hope, you see some improvements. I pm’ed Ozeph to get some advice about to stop this diet or push it more like 2 weeks more or not. He knows a lot about the science. But i think i’ll call an end this week. Not sure. If you do carnivore, i would cut out the greens too. It will be better not to eat them. You will get used to it.

PS: I hope this small improvement in my baseline will stay when i quit the diet. Many people say that the improvements with the diet stays permanently. Im curious about this.

Wait so you’re improving but are gonna stop the diet cause you’re sick of the food? Idk man I’m doing keto and haven’t improved yet but I’d stick with whatever would help

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How long you been doing keto? Keto is useless, believe me. Those veggies will still inflame your body. Go full carnivore, thats the thing.
Yes, as weird as it sounds about quitting, but really, i don’t see a real improvement. I mean, i would get morning woods too before keto, very rare though. Now i get them more often. But thats all.

Ozeph said i need to do keto for 6 months to see the sexual sides go away… i am not sure that i can do this for 5 more months. But i think i will cheat tomorrow only with beer, and do this diet for 2 more weeks afterwards and see if i improve more or not!

Ps: i lost 5kg’s and meat is very expensive here, but i know this shouldn’t be any kind of excuse. I would give everything i have to treat PAS. I need to push forward and beat this disease once and for all!!

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Same experience for me. Noticed no improvement except sleep and I was rapidly losing weight.

tried adding things like butter and raw milk?? both awesome tasting and bring in lots of calories i coudnt tolerate raw dairy but now im used to it its great .

as of wednesday this week my diet will be raw butter raw milk and raw meat i got good results from carnivore but the lack of carbs was noticable. this will be my new diet for atleast 6 months.

i am not suggesting people eat raw food this is not advice its on my own discretion. I did normal carnivore for 6 months brain fog was greatly reduced better energy and more motivation slightly better libido . this is my next step to go even deeper down this route and see how it heals .

for me personally keto is too harsh needs some carbs but clean carbs and the raw milk is perfect for that

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