Anybody has any data about that?
I wonder why doctors and Merck itself does not take under consideration the potential permanant loss of this intracell enzyme. If it is so irrational to make such clues, I wonder then what is the specific action of it, which make them so confident that evenything must be ok after quiting.
i also wonder what it means that finasteride is a irreversible inhibitor of 5 alpha reductase type II.
Wow I just read the article. So supposedly finasteride permanetly changes the 5AR enzyme and thus deactivates it? right? And also it could be a suicide inhibitor causing the immune system to attack the newly converted and changed 5AR too? If this is the case granted we all may be fucked big time which would suck, but we could have one hell of a law suit on our hands.
I do not think that irreversible is a medical term for something permanent when it comes to Finasteride.
You have to be aware that even after devastating anti-cancer chemical teraphy, people come to normality and their cells begin to be produced as then primarly should. I rather doubt that finasteride could permanently damage cellular expression. On the other hand we are only a small group of people and we are statisticaly invisible, so maybe we are those exceptions.
“It binds to the 5AR enzyme irreversibly, thus inactivating it. Once you stop taking Fin, 5AR begins to regenerate” Could the problem be that there is some kind of mutation i.e. 5AR enzyme does not regenerate to the form in which it was prior to fin? This could explain permanent problems even if hormones are in check…
That question was posed by myself (as “madclown”) in the following thread, as Bryan is one of the most knowledgeable hairloss posters around and has studied and looked into Finasteride’s mechanisms of action for many years:
hairlosshelp.com/forums/mess … TARTPAGE=1
Short answer – I do not believe this is the case, I believe 5AR-II is still regenerating correctly as anecdotally Dr. Crisler has noted 5AR metabolites have been “fine” in some ex-Finasteride patients… thus there must be another reason, ie perhaps something to do with the androgen receptor not being able to harness the effects of DHT correctly post-Finasteride… this is all just a theory though – one which the user “awor” on this forum is furtherst along in investigating, with the help of his doctor:
Tonight I was going through medical publications about DHT inhibitors both Fin and Dut and these medications are considered safe and both were tested with much higher quantities among testing groups without any negative long term feedback.
Cannot realy comment on that because, with all the knowledge that I have regarding its devastating influance on allepregnollone, gaba I do not know what to realy think. Most of these studies look as if they were prepared by Merck/Glaxo employee…
scary stuff really. This is just from my personal observation it seems there are two groups of sufferers on here those suffering sexually and those suffering mentally and physically. Obviously it varies and mixes in between, but if there is some kind of mutation at the receptor site and/or some sort of auto-immune response, how would one prove this medically/scientifically. If someone could as said before that is a big time multi-million dollar lawsuit. Also, I too don’t feel that it has the power to genetically change 5AR, but obviously something is way off here. It isn’t just an adrenal/hormonal issue there’s something else we have to figure out.
For the long term sufferers that have not been helped by TRT or any kind of other medication or regiment, I’m convinced the problem is with the 5AR enzyme. I took fin for 7 years and never really had many sides. I ended up stopping cause I was tired of the routine and had no money at the time. When I quit the poison I was feeling fine but over the following 3 months I quickly deteriorated into an anxious depressed mess. I had no clue any of it was related to Fin. Then one day 5 months later I suddenly felt like my old self almost overnight. It was at that point (June 2007) I took another pill and within a few hours the nightmare started again. Over the next 2 weeks I experienced the worst hellish depression that cannot be described in words. For 5 months after that it was a consistent painful depression that I had.
So it’s clear to me that since Fin binds permanently with 5AR, my body could not create the necessary neurosteroids to keep me mentally stable. This would explain why depression and anxiety hit me so soon after that last pill. As for why I and many others have deteriorated after quitting, I believe that by taking Fin for a certain amount of time our bodies adjusted to the new low level of 5AR in our systems and thus we could function normally. However, after quitting and the body regenerating 5AR to it’s normal level (within 2 weeks to a month later) the body sees this as too much and immediately shuts it down or down-regulates it. From there it could be months to years before the body returns to it’s pre-Fin state, if at all possible. This would account for the short periods of improvement followed by periods of regression due to the body constantly adjusting itself to get back to normal.
I agree but the problem with that is the guys with high amounts of DHT after fin use. I dunno perhaps it is really meaningless and it’s just free DHT in the blood etc etc. Markus I’m curious how was your sleep during all of this? I know as soon as finateride shot my sleep to hell over time everything else went with it.
This is was scares me. I starting to stop propecia due to depression and anxiety, I afraid that my syptoms will get worse now.
I was also extremely anxious for almost three months after quitting, I could not calm down. I remember sitting in a cafe with my laptop and I felt restless all the time.
I’ve never got anxious or depressed.
Of course sometimes I feel a little tired of this shit, but it is because of the problem themselves, but not because of a change in my mind.
I have now seen 2 Endos and both have said that DHT can be produced by both 5AR type I and type II. Maybe this is why people have high levels of DHT? Maybe after quitting the balance between type 1 and 2 is completely disrupted causing us to have too much of one and not enough of the other? I have read on this site that Fin inhibits type II which is the only type that can create neurosteroids. I don’t know if they can be made in the body any other way. I also don’t think everyone on this site has a problem with 5AR but I’m convinced it is for the majority of people who are suffering from long term metal problems yet have normal/close to normal hormonal profiles. Both my Endos said I had nothing wrong with either my adrenals or my hormones. When I asked about 5AR the one had no clue and the other said “You have to prove there is a problem with 5AR before we can look into it.” In other words, they know very little about 5AR, even less about testing it, and most likely ZERO about how to treat it.
As for sleep, yes I have had a very difficult time. Only in the past 2 months have I been able to get better, deeper sleep at night. For the first 6 months it took about 2-3 hours for me to fall asleep each night and I would only get about 4 - 5 hours of rest. I had terrible twitching in my muscles and my mind would race all the time. Now it seems I only have the odd muscle twitch and a light buzzing feeling in my body but I can usually fall asleep within 30 mins of laying down and not get up for about 8 hours. Sleep is definitely key for recovery. I recommend getting to bed by 10 pm each night and getting at least 8 to 9 hours of sleep (difficult cause us guys want to stay up and watch sports, etc.).
It is possible to test for 5AR activity, although it may be very difficult to find a lab that does such a test – may have to resort to University or Hospital research labs is my guess: propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=761
Also, here are other hormones Finasteride impacted that can be tested (ratios):
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1079
^^ Look for my post halfway down with the screenshot.