What has provided temporary ~100% return to normal for you?

I doubt the gut microbiome plays a role in PFS.

#1, it is very unlikely you felt “90%” better on just 1 day of carnivore. How can we trust you to quantifiably measure the degree of your PFS anyways? Will the average, non researcher person be able to tell the difference between 25%, 50%, and 75% “recovery”?

#2, How would 1 day of carnivore diet effect your gut microbiome? What likely happened if the lack of carbs caused a spike in androgen sensitivity, or had some other positive effect on your androgen receptors that pushed you in a positive direction temporarily. It is not a “cure” nor is it a “recovery”. It’s just like how most PFS users feel better while sick, I think it’s because their immune system goes down while they are sick and that pushes their androgen receptors in a positive direction.

PFS is not a chronic infection, it is not an issue with gut microbiome, your gut microbiome has a negligible effect on your libido and most importantly finasteride, isotretinoin, antidepressants, ect have little to no effect on your gut microbiome. Any measurable effects you may present to me in studies can be explained by how the immune system is effected by PFS.

You are close but still wrong. Being sick not only lowers immune system but also decreases testosterone and most other hormones. Which makes the receptors more sensitive (or pushes them in just a general positive direction) which is why we feel better temporarily while sick.

I’ve never heard about cold or flu reducing testosterone levels, any sources?

I’m also someone who took a year of doxycycline (yeah, I know, I know) for acne right before taking accutane (ugh it hurts to even write this) so I guess you might be right. But after finishing my 1.5 courses I had problems like seb derm and oral thrush which fucked me up pretty bad whereas I didn’t have those problems before.

What I do know is that our gut microbiome plays a role in hormone production. This might also explain how antibiotics might give some temporary therapeutic benefits. I feel like there has to be some gut component that affects us if it makes at least accutane users susceptible to IBS and Crohns, no?

To me it looks like all the theories we have with DHT or 5AR2 are just dead ends. Doesn’t it make sense to see what leads to temporary relief and try to work out a solution from there instead?

I think things that give a temporary relief are things that modify the androgen receptors and immune function. Your carnivore diet did not effect your gut microbiome in the first few days. The no carbs put your body into ketosis which decreases T and makes receptors more sensitive.

But you can go ahead and do things that “mess” with your gut microbiome. People have been proposing this for years. There are posts from 2008 that claim Minoxidil-induced PFS was “proof” that it was a gut microbiome issue because “Minoxidil does not effect androgens.” Now studies show that Minoxidil actually destroys the androgen receptor and 5a-R2 transcriptional activity just like Finasteride does. (Albeit despite not reducing DHT levels - this has nothing to do with DHT directly)

I’m interested in that you use the word “destroy”. What is your view on the AR de/re sensitizing hypothesis? Do you think it is rubbish because the receptors have irrepairably been killed off or do you think it might be possible somehow?

There is absolutely nothing interesting about me using the word “destroy” because that’s exactly what Minoxidil does.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/

“ Dissecting the underlying mechanisms, we found that minoxidil interfered with AR-peptide, AR-coregulator, and AR N/C-terminal interactions, as well as AR protein stability. Furthermore, a crystallographic analysis using the AR ligand-binding domain (LBD) revealed direct binding of minoxidil to the AR in a minoxidil-AR-LBD co-crystal model, and surface plasmon resonance assays demonstrated that minoxidil directly bound the AR with a Kd value of 2.6 μM. Minoxidil also suppressed AR-responsive reporter activity and decreased AR protein stability in human hair dermal papilla cells.”

It’s compromising the AR on a transcriptional and protein level. The effects that can have long term after applying generous amounts 2x a day for 6 months I don’t know. So far, it looks like people have had success with both desensitizing and resensitizing.

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There’s too many connections to the gut and mircobiome to ignore its relation to PFS. It’s possible that PFS from 1 pill can be gut related. Or side effects that happen after symptom free months following discontinuation.

On the curezone site, the guy said he was cured from PFS, and listed brain fog, ED, etc by a diagnosed and treated e. Histolytica infection.

Hormones and the immune system are connected. Older guys may have been exposed to light parasitic infections more often in their healthy, non finasteride damaging days, and developed immunity.

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I had a good window of symptom relief with an antibiotic years ago. That was in my worst days too.

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That’s a very fascinating read. https://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=2359277 for those interested.

When I have temporary recoveries, my stools harden more like old times, otherwise they’re soft and nasty. I had a 3 day mini symptom remission recently and I was going to announce that I was cured lol. My stools were harder and I rubbed one off a few times. Now I’m back to soft stools, ED, depression, low libido

I’m 100% sure the connection between gut and PFS.
I can’t figure out if gut is the cause or a consequence. Studies say DHT helps keep autoimmune diseases and infection under control.
For me it’s a combination of both.
It took me months to get rid of SIBO and I still have a lot of food sensitivities and inflammation.
When I follow a strict diet, eating only foods I know are safe for me, I feel undoubtedly better.
The deal is to maintain a perfect lifestyle long enough to give your body the opportunity to find the balance. Not easy tho.

I have had proper stool majority of the time lately, but I don’t correlate it to anything but a clearer mind.

If I have a sexual improvement, I’ll notice bigger testicles.

If I do HCG, my testicles will be bigger sometimes, but it doesn’t translate to sexual improvements.

I think the next testing I have will be one of those super comprehensive stool examinations. Parasites, amoeba, good/bad bacteria.
Does anyone know about a test like that?

This recommends to do testing before any probiotic “dumping.” Bifidobacterium is the best apparently.

I also recommend the low histamine diet, which helps me with uncomfortable feeling in my torso, that accompanied fast heart rate. It’s been gone for a few days now.

Viome Test Results

We could use a few comparisons.

They test a lot. No e. Histolytica?

I did the GI Map last year and it includes marker for E. histolytica also. I was negative, but I had high level of zonulin (marker of leaky gut) and a certain degree of dysbiosis.
I’m not sure how reliable these tests are.
Sometimes I’m tempted to take a round of metronidazole and see what happens, but I’m scared to mess my gut even more.

Could you take our survey please @fuckpropecia

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