nyer-
My total T went from about 389 a few months after cessation of Fin to nearly 700 a few months after that. That was before clomid or TRT. Even though my T had doubled I was still hypogonadal. I’m on TRT and HcG now. I’ve been injecting .5 to .75 cc about every 4 days for a few weeks now. My T should be off the charts by now and I’m still bloated, no energy, no strength, shrunken penis, etc.
I wouldent be suprised if your cortisol levels are elevated. Id do serum and saliva testing if i were you.
I think you’re probably right about that. I have trouble sleeping too. I ordered a full panel saliva the other day but they emailed me back and said they couldnt mail it to me in NY without a perscription.
You really need to do a 24 hour cortisol test. Not being able to sleep is a thyroid/cortisol problem. It has nothing to do with low t. In my case its weird, because my thyroid hormones are screwed up, along with low cortisol, and yet I sleep like a baby. Usually 8 hours straight. The problem is waking up refreshed, and thats just doesnt happen for me.
Has anyone here ever tested their electrolytes? More importantly their sodium/potassium?
I think a lot of us are sodium deficient.
I tested all electrolytes. They were normal. I do however benefit from sportsdrinks with electrolytes when i take them i feel better.
You cant say T has nothing to do with not beeing able to sleep. When i take T gel the first thing that happends is i get a tired alot earlier in the evenings and i sleep sooooooooooooo well. Its the main reason i take Tgel at times, cause it relaxes me. Possibly by lowering cortisol. Either way the change in sleep habits is very noticable and dont just get alittle better but the insomnia dissapears!
But it has more to do with the fact that whoever is low on cortisol rather then T. being low on T is probably from insufficient cortisol/thyroid…
but my initial response wasnt directed at you… idk if you have tested cortisol/thyroid… I know he hasnt, which is why my post was to him.
Actually high cortisol decrease T and T lowers cortisol. Theres a better chance that high cortisol causes insomnia then low imo. Wich is probably why T helps me get to sleep. Alltho ive been toying with the idea that perhaps its elevated estrogen blocking my hyperthyriod when taking T but yeah thats abit of a stretch 
Ive tested cortisol both high and low and im more or less hyperthyriod if looking at free t3 t4 but my tsh is around 2 for the most. I awnsered cause i felt your claim that insomnia is not because of low T and that it is cortisol / thyriod related might be flawed. This atleast is disputed considering my experience.
my cortisol, and my T (450-500) are both low, and I sleep just fine. No two ppl are alike in this mess. That’s the trouble with finding some common cure, because each individual hormone make up is different. I think partly because we are all not the same age, height weight, and do not live the same lifestyles as well.
I dont think you are following or im not explaining this well…
Thats what im saying bad sleep / insomnia is more likely an effect of high cortisol! For me when i take Testosterone i feel like my cortisol is reduced and this makes me feel calm and relaxed and stop the insomnia / bad sleep.
Infact alot of illeffect like bloating moanface constricting blood vessels anxiety etc etc are alot more likely to stem from high cortisol and not low. Yet if one were to read this website one could easily get the impression that we get a procentage on hc sale the way we push high cortisol levels to be the norm.
Most health ppl and all the doctors ive spoke to would say that having high cortisol is a bad thing not the other way around. Yet we are determined to dispute this and claim that we have a cortisol insuffiency. Why? Sure if you are rock bottom in cortisol i could understand this reasoning but thats hardly the case for most here.
Dont get me wrong i still belive the main suspect here is adrenals but ill eat my hat if turns out that the reason we are feeling like we do are becuase of low cortisol. Infact ill gladly eat it cause this would easily be fixed.
ive seen this trend among everyone who gets the tests…
too much reverse t3 in their body
too much estrogen
cortisol out of tune. ive seen many people with high cortisol… i’m personally waiting on my test result. i know JN was on HC so I’m assuming he had low cortisol, so an out of tune would be more appropiate.
me personally, i have high thyroid anti bodies and iron that is low as well.
Low 3-Adiol-G
High Cortisol
Everything else with me is in range among that which has been tested. Test is consistantly over 800, DHT flucuates within the normal range. Estrogen is 32 (pretty good).
I have not gotten the 24/hr urine panel done yet and am still waiting on my reverse T3 results however.
I would guess that my 5a-THF/THF ratio is off.
Right now I would say the best marker for PFS would be the low 3-Adiol-G or 5a-THF/THF ratio.
Agreed.
Low FSH is another one for the list.
And what is not right is that most PFS docs are treating the condition by treating the symptoms, not the underlying cause.
Many of them seem to believe that PFS is a condition unique to each individual… while some of the side effects are in fact unique and blood tests do differ from person to person the fact remains that these appear only to be manifestations of the effects of PFS in different people.
Like treating my high cortisol… the high cortisol is most likely only caused by the immense stress that this condition has put in under and the fact that I am now living 2300 miles away from all my friends and family.
I have singled out and determined that every other hormone lvl in my body is relatively within range apart from my 3-Adiol-G and cortisol.
And low 3 adol G is a common denominator to almost everyone on this board apart from what? One person?
Mayo uses 3adiolg as a marker for peripheral tissue androgen metabolism by 5AR2, not AR insensitivity… which although I respect members with the opinion on this, AR insensitivity doesn’t make much sense… there are other reasons for muscle wastage and not many of us have this symptom. I am still 220 lbs 12% bodyfat… on the outside I look completely normal, on the inside I feel like my mind and emotions have been destroyed.
Just go to pubmed and look at all the studies linking 5AR2 to sexual behavior and defeminzation of the brains of developing male animals.
5AR2 metabolism is the problem here. We have DHT because of 5AR1 or perhaps deactivited DHT, but we are not getting the tissue metabolism that is required of 5AR2 for DHT to activate libido, sexual arousal, sleep (allopreg), and control brain fog.
Most of our proven evidence points to this. Why even focus on other ideas besides this and trying to figure what triggered it in us but not other men. Hyper sensitive immune systems, vunerable genetic dispositions, lack of DHT causes down regulation in 5AR2…
We have evidence that points to 5AR2 issues.
We only have theories about the other proposed causes, and dispite that some of these theories do fit, not all of them do in all cases and we have no actual evidence pointing to other causes.
I have muscle wastage. I have lost muscle from all over my body, including my face (to the point my face feels numb) and the padding of my feet has also largely gone. Unless I have two different mystery illnesses running at the same time its all due to fin. Of course, we may be effected in a different way, but theres no point dismissing peoples symptoms that arent connected to 5aR (unless you can think of another reason why this should be happening).
You are right, I shoudln’t dismiss it as not being 5AR related, it could be. Could be cause of 5AR affecting testosterone… or a number of reasons.
High FSH in my case.
Another similarity is that most people on the board are skinny or very skinny. No fat men around here (prior to fin), although out of thousands you would expect a few tens.
I am 5’9 (176 cm) and weigh 138 pounds (~62 kg).
Yeah my doctor mentioned that he has seen many cases of odd or persistant type side effects from other drugs with people who have low cholesterol. He was noting on my low cholesterol from before propecia.
I’m very skinny, 133 and 5’11" from last doctor visit.
I had high cholestrol before SP, don’t know now. Doctor put on statin in 2005 to lower my cholestrol but I got fatigue, appetite loss etc so stopped it. I read SP contains betasitosterol which is good to lower cholestrol, and it does but at what cost! we know now.
sps