What are the primary similarities we've discovered about our cases?

General Discussion
#1

I know that this has been examined and discussed frequently, but I can’t find any area where we’ve collated the info. But I’d like to learn about the efforts if anyone can point me to the right thread or section of the board, as I think it will help each of us in our personal investigations and doctors as they continue to study PFS.

I know, for example, that low 3 Adiol G and low Vit D is something that many of us have in common in our hormone profile. Is there anything else that seems to be a very frequent common denominator that I’m missing? (I’m asking b/c I’m trying to do as much research as possible before I start talking to docs- setting up an appt with Jacobs currently, and I’d like to shortcut things versus spending another 100 hours on this board trying to piece it all together.)

Also, have we discussed our medical backgrounds to see if there is anything we starkly have in common? For example, I do have a family history of cardiovascular disease (although I am very healthy with great chol. levels, etc.). I also was (unfortunately) on an SSRI for a short time in college, which disqualified me from Irvig’s study. (Obviously many of you were able to participate so I doubt this is something we have in common).

Quick summary of me:
36 years old. Suffering from low libido and ED for 10 years, after 2-3 months on Propecia at age 26. No morning erections, very infrequent nocturnal, and no sexual erections without manual stim. I can, however, masturbate and can even complete sex unassisted - it just sucks b/c I have to concentrate very hard on my erection and there is no pleasure anymore. Haven’t tried any tx yet as I only really clued in to PFS about a year ago, and was too freaked out to really dive into this until a few weeks ago. My hormones (at least the basic ones) are normal. Never really had the “crash” a lot of you speak of. And I don’t have any of the mental sides, to my knowledge. (Have had trouble concentrating in the past few years, which I address with medication and yoga, but I was also diagnosed with ADD in my early 20s. Also the medication/yoga seems to really help so I doubt this particular symptom is PFS related for me.)

If anyone can post the top similarities in medical profiles, that would be helpful! Thanks.

#2

I’ve always thought low 3 alphadiol G and out of rangle low vit d have to be a clue here. I supplemented vit d and drank alot of vit d added milk and was still out of range low. Just seems too coincidental almost all of us would test this way.

Another possible similarity is hypersexuality among alot of us prior to Fin. I think this went beyond just being “a guy” for alot of us. I know I had an extremely high sex drive prior to Fin crash and was above average size. Quite a few of the other guys here have expressed the same thing to me privately or on the forum. Losing that completely , esp going from large to tiny, has been a devestating experience.

#3

Boston- very interesting. I’m going to have to add my name to the list of the hypersexuals. I was pretty damn into it, and also was definitely above average in size. I’m truly lucky that my post-fin flaccid penis is the same size, and my post-fin erections when aided with viagra, get pretty close. (But un-assisted erections are tiny and really pathetic in comparison). Thanks for the 2 cents. I wonder if this means that our general baseline Ts were likely to be higher than the norm.

Remind me again- what is your T like now, post fin? I wonder if there is any correlation between T levels and extremity of symptoms? I know it’s a relative scale, but making the super broad assumption that we all had high T levels, I’d be curious to see whether those of us with “normal” T levels have less post-fin symptoms than those with low T levels…

Anyway, just speculating.

#4

I’m wondering if we all shared some added extra sensitivity to androgens prior to Fin or extra production or both. Mew mentioned something about this and I believe is aware of a paper documenting the condition.

#5

My sex drive certainly seemed to be higher than anyone I know… :laughing:

Seriously, it was pretty high and I wouldn’t say I was small either.

#6

I had a very high sex drive before, literally 5-6 times a day I would have sex with girlfriends. Although, I am very average in size and always have been.

#7

I was a hyper sexual too I think, masturbating or having sex on average more than 3 times a day. I don’t know the definition though.

#8

I am deleting my post since feel what has gone is gone, no use to repeat.

#9

I wasent hypersexuall. Dont think i was a very high T level either but thats impossible to say i guess.

#10

I wasnt hypersexual, i would wank once every 2-3 days. My size was not big, just normal i think, hard to know cause i hadnt been studying other guys cocks.

#11

LOL

I was hypersexual, felt the urge anywhere and everywhere. Sitting in a subway train could elicit an erection from the bumps. And here I am now, half the man in every sense.

#12

One thing that jumps out at me with this hypersexuality stuff is that it inevitably results in a chronic zinc deficency, with or without Finasteride.

Namely, when you ejaculate, you also lose a LOT of zinc. This is fact. So you could say that had finasteride never come in contact with any of us, those who ejaculate a few times a day or more WILL end up losing zinc and therefore testosterone and become somewhat hypogonadal (around 30% loss of testosterone which is actually right on the button for me).

#13

Have you seen any studies which indicate this about zinc defeciency and its effect on testosterone? I’m interested as I masturbated a LOT on my last round of fin, 4-5 times a day plus probably. I have wondered if this is what pushed me over the edge as I had full recoveries from the stuff when going off it at various times before, three times at least. Chronic masturbation certainly depeletes your system, although I’m not sure of direct hormonal effects. Certainly doing it while you have fin sides isn’t a good idea I think.

Going back to similarities, I had a high libido before fin. To be honest I think most guys do unless they are on SSRI’s or this shit. Low libido is very unusal among men, certainly young men, it’s a lot rarer than ED itself. On fin I probably went from 10/10 to an average of say 5, apart from an early burst of higher libido which probably made me think I wasn’t going to get sides. I wasn’t in a relationship when starting so didn’t notice, then loads of girls appeared and I was barely interested in fucking a lot of the time. Still watched porn though. I knew there was a problem but just never made the connection, my fin use was pretty naive, but I’m not alone there.

I also had an early puberty and had chest hair etc before many peers were even shaving. This even presents a problem with some doctors who think I can’t have low T because I’m ‘virilised’. However, some guys on here I’ve read are the opposite.

Basically I think anyone who gets sexual sides is prone to PFS, and going by actual studies that’s up to 38% of users. If it was purely genetics everyone would take fin and crash or have lingering sides the first time, but plenty guys here stopped and started without persistent problems. I think in my case the gaps were too short and didn’t allow my body to properly reset itself, could perhaps have had elevated E2 or cortisol which then unravelled everything the final time.

Perhaps an idea, maybe we all had higher DHT levels than normal? Or the T/DHT ratio was slightly more skewed? Then we were more susceptible to a DHT blocker causing more problems.

#14

Effects of dietary zinc depletion on seminal volume and zinc loss, serum testosterone concentrations, and sperm morphology in young men.
Hunt CD, Johnson PE, Herbel J, Mullen LK.

United States Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research Service, Grand Forks Human Nutrition Research Center, ND 58202.

Abstract
Identification of the andrological variables most sensitive to zinc depletion would expedite the diagnosis of male reproductive pathology induced by zinc deficiency. Eleven volunteers living on a metabolic ward were fed a diet composed of a mixture of a semisynthetic formula and conventional foods supplemented with ZnSO4 to supply a total of 1.4, 2.5, 3.4, 4.4, or 10.4 mg Zn/d. After an equilibration period of 28 d (10.4 mg Zn/d), all treatments were presented for 35 d each, the first four in random order and the fifth last. Compared with when they were consuming 10.4 mg Zn/d, volunteers consuming 1.4 mg Zn/d exhibited decreased semen volumes (3.30 vs 2.24 mL) and serum testosterone concentrations (26.9 vs 21.9 nmol/L), and no change in seminal zinc concentrations. Compared with 10.4 mg Zn/d, treatments of 1.4, 2.5, and 3.4 mg Zn/d decreased the total semen zinc loss per ejaculate (6.29 vs 3.81, 4.68, and 5.03 mumols/ejaculate). Seminal loss accounted for 9% of total body zinc loss when 1.4 mg Zn/d was consumed. Seminal phosphorus concentrations were elevated during all four phases of zinc depletion (28.4 vs 32.9, 31.0, 34.2, and 33.6 mmol/L). The findings suggest that serum testosterone concentrations, seminal volume, and total seminal zinc loss per ejaculate are sensitive to short-term zinc depletion in young men.

#15

nyer-

My total T went from about 389 a few months after cessation of Fin to nearly 700 a few months after that. That was before clomid or TRT. Even though my T had doubled I was still hypogonadal. I’m on TRT and HcG now. I’ve been injecting .5 to .75 cc about every 4 days for a few weeks now. My T should be off the charts by now and I’m still bloated, no energy, no strength, shrunken penis, etc.

#16

I wouldent be suprised if your cortisol levels are elevated. Id do serum and saliva testing if i were you.

#17

I think you’re probably right about that. I have trouble sleeping too. I ordered a full panel saliva the other day but they emailed me back and said they couldnt mail it to me in NY without a perscription.

#18

You really need to do a 24 hour cortisol test. Not being able to sleep is a thyroid/cortisol problem. It has nothing to do with low t. In my case its weird, because my thyroid hormones are screwed up, along with low cortisol, and yet I sleep like a baby. Usually 8 hours straight. The problem is waking up refreshed, and thats just doesnt happen for me.

Has anyone here ever tested their electrolytes? More importantly their sodium/potassium?

I think a lot of us are sodium deficient.

#19

I tested all electrolytes. They were normal. I do however benefit from sportsdrinks with electrolytes when i take them i feel better.

You cant say T has nothing to do with not beeing able to sleep. When i take T gel the first thing that happends is i get a tired alot earlier in the evenings and i sleep sooooooooooooo well. Its the main reason i take Tgel at times, cause it relaxes me. Possibly by lowering cortisol. Either way the change in sleep habits is very noticable and dont just get alittle better but the insomnia dissapears!

#20

But it has more to do with the fact that whoever is low on cortisol rather then T. being low on T is probably from insufficient cortisol/thyroid…