Why do guys who use it for 3 days get screwed over and guys who use for 3 years come away squeaky clean?..Don’t worry joe its not this and there is mystery.
Thats EXACTLY what would happen. You have proved my point.
I think it is unfortunate that this theory has only been put forward by me and only many years after the forum began.
The adverse effects of androgen deprivation are already known to the medical community.
About my above post…
There is a mystery. And that is why some men dont lose hair and some men have a constantly poor fitness and muscle tone even long after stopping (prehaps thats what you meant). Other mysteries include the low levels of 3adiolG, Vit D and possibly Vit B12 too.
Apoptosis is the most simple cause of the majority of symptoms (ED etc.). Prehaps those with more extensive and mysterious symptoms have a mixture of apoptosis and epigenetic changes.
Your link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1477613/ says that these “Androgen deprivation” side effects go away with discontinuation of therapy (do a search for “discontinuation”). In our case, however, the side effects are present (sometimes they are worse) after discontinuation, and, furthermore, with a very good hormonal profile.
If you say that this is a well known problem, could you please find an article that talks about how these side effects persist after the hormonal therapy is discontinued?
Oscar, if you look hard enough you may find we are deficient in almost all vitamins if not all, and have crazy mineral balances.
People have brief recoveries where they are 100% back to there old self, myself included…off zinc.
There are big holes in this theory and you know it.
Btw if you want your hair to fall out again take a high dose of vitamin e (1500iu p/d).
And lobotomy, perminant brain damage symptoms…gimmie a break
Symptoms are closer to anorexia… nutritional deficiencies, rapid weight loss, cfs, brain fog, poor sexual function, depression and passiveness, lowerd core temp. and just like the lobotomy surgery that atleast i know i havent had i dont think anyone is sticking fingers down their throats, thats how dumb that sounds.
Also the sky is falling, do us all a favour and take the blinkers off oscar
GOOGLE SEARCH - “androgen deprivation therapy side effects”
First Result. supportiveoncology.net/journal/articles/0402097.pdf
Second Result. indianjurol.com/article.asp?issn=0970-1591;year=2009;volume=25;issue=2;spage=169;epage=176;aulast=Bagrodia
Third Result. uptodate.com/patients/content/topic.do?topicKey=~iiQli0uxt94zf6D
Fourth Result. (not particularly relevant? ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2213888/ )
Fifth Result. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12667885
Sixth Result. drprem.com.au/downloads/ADT.pdf
Seventh Result. sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060226114317.htm
Eighth Result. (little info… psa-rising.com/mednews/adt/79-androgen-deprivation-syndrome.html )
Ninth Result. ehow.com/about_5636936_side-effects-androgen-deprivation-therapy.html
Etc. Etc. Etc…
I would believe it myself if i didnt have that 1 day on zinc
Its not a competition by the way.
But I want to get better. If we pretend its something else then I guarantee that will never happen.
The first papers on androgen deprevation I posted are from this website. Whoever set up the site (or mew) must have suspected this long ago.
[Size=4]Why hasnt the focus been on this as the most probable cause?[/size]
If anyone reads my recent posts please do not become depressed/suicidal.
Talk to a doctor about the effects of androgen deprevation therapy (prehaps an oncologist specialising in prostate cancer) and find out what is prescribed to help alleviate the symptoms. It would also be most useful to discover what part of the brain has been damaged. Then we can work on a cure! 
I think it is unfortunate that this theory has only been put forward by me and only many years after the forum began.
Stop talking crap pal, I posted this six months ago:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3771
Then I read mew had posted similar much earlier, it’s in the studies section somewhere.
And yes, a fundamental flaw, the guys who get androgen deprivation therapy return to their previous state in most cases, albeit maybe not sexually. We don’t, as I posted.
No offence, but you’ve just landed here and posted all sorts of doomsday stuff and then have the temerity to suggest it’s all your own brainstorm. The theory of androgen resistance has been around for a while, and is subscribed to by anyone with sense who has the true post-finasteride syndrome.
btw, good luck on finding a neurologist in the UK who will work on you with your ‘nuclear theory’, whatever that is, without laughing you out of the room.
Oh Bloody Hell. You posted that people recover from androgen deprevation therapy. I have now posted numerous studies from a simple google search proving this is incorrect. There are permanant side effects – unbelievably serious side effects. Why did you not read this?
You have posted nothing of that regard whatsoever, just snippets from links which show the effects of anti-androgen therapy, nothing to show that they are permanent. I have read these links before you and posted tham on the site. Read them closely and you wil see that symptoms like anemia and hot flushes disappear when these men are taken off the therapy.
As I said, prostate cancer sufferers undergo these symptoms when placed on hardcore anti-androgens. We undergo these symptoms for the most part when we come off 5AR inhibitors. That is the difference with our condition, we acquire (some of us) androgen resistance when we crash.
As for everyone getting MRIs, if you’d read a bit you’d see many on here have had them and they’ve shown nothing. And the idea that we are suffering the sides of a frontal lobotomy, just because you put it in big, bold capitals doesn’t make it look any less stupid, in fact more so.
Do a bit of reading on here before you type.
I have to admit something. I assumed Androgen Deprevation Therapy only lasted a week or two, not months or years. This has skewed my interpretation of the informtion in the links I provided. They do not mention if side effects continue.
So do side effects persist after such treatment? It would appear that even academics are uncertain,
Long-term side effects of androgen deprivation therapy in men with non-metastatic prostate cancer: A systematic literature review (2006)
There are currently 600,00 patients undergoing hormone therapy for prostate cancer in the USA. If side effects do not persist normally it means we are the only men in the world suffering these effects after taking antiandrogens.
[If that is true it means there is something unique about taking 5ar2 inhibitors then having low levels of T as a result of the ‘crash’. Or as a result of our DNA we dont get prostate cancer, but do react this way to antiandrogens]
Those links are all to papers discussing the effects of being on androgen deprivation therapy. We are not on any form of ADT, and have serum testosterone levels in the reference range, but are showing the symptoms of androgen deficiency. Do you see what the mystery is now?
That’s completely untrue. The side effects of androgen deprivation therapy only last for the duration of the therapy. Read the PDF you cited.
See this paragraph on 644-5: “The increasing trend of younger men with prostate cancer potentially leads to the earlier use of ADT if attempts at cure are unsuccessful. This means that increasing numbers of men will be using ADT for longer periods. As a result, potential long term side effects need to be addressed early.” It’s saying that long-term use of ADT raises the issue of managing long-term side effects. How does that make any sense if ADT always causes permanent side effects?
Wrong. TRT has had a significant effect on many PFS sufferers who have tried it. I’m one. It requires a supraphysiological dose, which is probably where others have gone wrong.
This is nonsense. Our symptoms respond to testosterone replacement. If we had permanent brain damage or ‘penis damage’ that would not be the case. I agree there has been permanent damage to our androgen system though.
Wrong again. Androgen deficiency is probably the leading theory on this site. What we don’t understand is the mechanism by which we continue to be androgen deficient despite ceasing finasteride and having normal(ish) levels of serum testosterone. As far as I can tell, you haven’t contributed anything towards our understanding of that.
You are correct, I apologise. I have edited the first post in the thread to reflect this. There is no information of permanant side effects from Androgen Deprevation Therapy (after discontinuation of treatment) in any academic paper I can find. I am sure if such side effects do exist they would be more prominantly mentioned.
I was influenced by ‘Deca-Dick’. 
BB’s get permanent sexual dysfunction (ED and/or low lobido) in a short space of time after their T/DHT levels drop. This is permanant damage to their brain and penis’ - if not, then what else could cause it? So clearly permanant damage can occur, it is not ‘nonesense’.
I suppose there is only one point I wanted to get across. If we have normal hormone levels and our bodies do not respond to those hormones there can only be two reasons;
1. Epigenetic changes to the way our bodies react to hormones at the cellular level.
2. The cells that are supposed to respond to those hormones are no longer there.
Yes, many here spoke of androgen insensitivity. I’ve spoken to three of the PFS doc’s in the last few months and they all say that is possible. But, Its not necesarily a fact that androgen insensitivity is permenant. Dr. Jacobs states that he had a patient who took enough thyroid meds to kill a normal person. Over time she somehow resensitized to thyroid hormones. Some here have had the same outcome with high dose TRT. Super high doses maybe turn back on the androgen receptors? Maybe this is Jacobs line of thinking and why he puts everyone on TRT right off the bat before clomid? Just a guess.
Here is a post from a member that got his T levels to record levels and was/is a patient of Dr Jacobs. viewtopic.php?f=0&t=3757&p=24469#p24469
Actually the idea of using supraphysiological doses of androgens to ‘force’ something to happen has been around for a while viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1417
It depends on what has happened in the first place. Why does Dr Jacobs think using massive levels of thyroid hormones worked? (btw Im not at all a critic of dr jacobs despite the first post in this thread!)
This is from the website of a leading expert of methylation…
medicine.mcgill.ca/pharma/mszyflab/Main.htm
Prehaps our androgen receptors are methylated creating a lack of gene expression. Prehaps this occurs when then stop working due to a percieved massive dose of DHT. Prehaps they just need to be kick-started into working again. Or prehaps we need to lower the levels of androgens in our bodies to resensitise the ARs. Who knows?
By the way, kudos on still working and actually being a manager of other people!
He didnt really theorize why she became androgen sensitive again. I think I was being very negative and saying why bother treatment and he was saying he’s seen alot of things happen. I think the basic idea is bombarding the receptor “might” switch it back on somehow. You’d like Dr. J - very positive, very bright, a bit of a maverick, and I think he honestly wants to help us.
Jacobs also said he had someone with a total Testosterone of 4000 and they felt nothing. Dont know how long they kept up that level though. I think high dose TRT/ Wellbutrin is gonna be the next thing I give a shot. Not looking forward to the shrunken up nuts.
I guess all we can do is try a treatment and share the results, Googling things will only get us so far.
I’m in the wrong country to see Dr Jacobs, but I’ve managed get an appointment to see the top endocrinologist in England, he is a Professor with over 400 publications on PubMed and has an excellent international reputation. Ill report back what happens.
who is this guy?
could you pm me any details
thanks