So now Tribulus is an anti-biotic, and still no one has recovered with it?
Several dozen cycles of Tribulus have improved my condition a LOT.
It has enabled me to use things that people (including myself) crashed on before, such as creatine, sorghum, and even straight up DHT. I had hormonal suppression when attempting to use 2-3 mg of 11-keto DHT before, whereas now I can use up to 15 mg drops with NO negative side effects. Couldnât use creatine at all. Now I can take any of those things if I choose. I am literally now on 15 drops of keto-DHT trying to further shock my system back into 5-AR production. Nothing I do affects me negatively since I used sufficient quantities of (quality) tribulus. My testosterone reading went up from 600 to >1000. Now the only thing left to work on is my low serum (and tissue) DHT levels.
Before you attempt to increase DHT, you HAVE to have sufficient AR density, or your CNS 5AR1 will shutdown due to negative feedback. This is a simple fact and reason why people feel bad when they reach for DHT-boosting supplements without having laid the groundwork of restoring/resensitizing their androgen receptors.
And this is where Tribulus really helps. Iâm glad I found this thread, and Iâm definitely glad Iâve taken it because it set the first steps on my way to recovery. For the record, everything that gave me any improvement, there was someone here who said it was dangerous or a bad idea. Which it probably is if you donât do things in the correct order, or take supplements of bad quality.
My 2c.
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Watch out, people! With tribulus terrestris I had a catastrophic reaction that left me disabled. I canât work, watch TV, play videogames, do sport.
Every body is unique and may have an unique reaction.
We should avoid experimenting, until weâll know whatâs the cause of PFS/PSSD/PAS6
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Itâs amazing to me how many people are still enthousiastic about Tribulus after being told that:
A) Itâs a 5ARI
B) Several people have reported to have significantly worsened conditions because of it
C) There is no scientific proof of itâs beneficial effects regarding sexual function in human beings, as far as I know the only research that pointed towards a positive conclusion was conducted on rats and rabbits. I believe it was Indian or Chinese traditional medicine that promoted the consumption of Tribulus for sexual functioning, and if something should obviously not be trusted in general it is traditional medicine.
D) They come in unsafe unpredictable shippings of highly variable quality.
E) Known scammers are tirelessly promoting it.
Tribulus is definitely not one of the first things I would try.
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If you look on google, Tribulus improves libido. Boom. There you go. Problem solved. Popped a pill and lost your libido? No worries, just pop another pill that increases libido according to people on the internet.
People are enthusiastic about it because some have genuinely improved their condition due to it. There arenât many things out there that can be said about.
I get it that people here are feeling bad, but there is an unhealthy amount of negative energy vented towards substances with claimed benefits (and the people using them). It gets old.
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Seems like the majority have gotten worse with it. The focus here should be on figuring out what our problem is first (I.e., creating a movement to get scientific research performed). Once we know what our problem then we can roll dice with more pills. Blindly Googling pills and spends years of time and money doing the same crap over and over for decades is utterly insane.
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Holy words!
Fair enough, thatâs your perspective and indeed taking the cautious approach is the prudent thing to do for some people.
Look, Iâve done my share to support the research - I filled out the survey and donated a decent amount of money to the foundation. However for me personally, during the first two years of PFS I did not get any better on my own. Hence, I had to start doing something and in this case, that was researching and taking supplements. The waiting game isnât one Iâm willing to play. Considering there are things that I respond positively to and that I feel are genuinely improving my situation, tribulus being one of them, I will continue to do what you claim is insane, as from my POV, sitting and doing nothing is at least as, if not more insane.
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What brand of tribulus did you use again?
You may be a lucky one who has gotten better with home remedies, and you might also be one who would e gotten better anyway with or without the herbs, but if the same effort had gone into organizing as a community, unifying with the PSSD and PAS groups, and generally getting heard, then we would be several years closer to a cure. So while weâre dicking around with herbs weâre losing our lives. Five years earlier cure could make all the difference in world between becoming too old to have kids/living the majority of your life on the sidelines without purpose watching all your friends move on and focus on creating families vs getting to have a life thatâs actually enjoyable. Good luck though. Maybe youâll be able to just take Tribulus the rest of your life. Donât mean to sound like a dick. But I think the notion that we should first google a bunch of crap and order a million pills online thinking that will enable us to live normal lives has been proven childishly naive and incorrect. Itâs been over a decade now. The more we donât do anything to advance research the more we lose our lives. The majority of people evidently got worse with Tribulus rather than better. I certainly wouldnât tell someone not to roll the dice though.
Iâve searched the net for years and tribulus improved and/or cured many people with PFS. Iâm sure Iâve encountered 20-30+ positive stories involving tribulus. Only a few that claimed it made them worse long term.
And youâre naĂŻve if you believe the upcoming studies or organizing⌠would cure us. Iâm sorry to say, but the bitter truth is, weâre on our own to recover. You can wait for studies or think organizing ourselves will magically spawn a cure in a couple of yearsâŚbut thatâs very naĂŻve sadly. Even if studies come out and they start searching for a cure, thatâs still a long way to go. In the most optimistic scenario itâs probably 10+ years away. Do you know how long research and trials take?
Donât want to be rude but againâŚweâre on our own to find a way out of this. And to be positive, many recovered with herbs,⌠For a lot of pfs patients it will of course require more than just herbs to recover and maybe they need to go on cycles of proviron, pct, test boosting,⌠And yes some pfs patients are in a bad state and could get worseâŚbut guess what? Weâre already in a pit and thereâs no cure or alternative.
So Iâm sorry but your strategy; âjust waitâ is the wrong one. If you do not take action you could be here for a very long time and your life will fly by waiting for studies, organizing,⌠instead of doing what is necessary, taking action.
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Itâs absolutely the case that for us to get a cure we need to get science started. The past approach of everyone trying tribulus, fasts, TRT, etc has obviously failed as there are borderline no recovery stories here. After like 15 years. The ones who report recoveries may not have even had PFS. They might have just had adrenal fatigue, depression, some allergy, etc.
The one thing we know is that something needs to be different or else we will never recover. Unless someone has a better idea, that thing needs to be unifying the PFS, PSSD, and PAS groups, doing public outreach, and orienting efforts toward promoting research. Google-searching, pill-popping, scientifically clueless cowboy mode has no future. The proof is in the last 15 years.
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Well guess how long it will take to âget the science startedâ? Years and years. Like I said, if youâre lucky youâll have a cure in 10 years or more.
And why are you dismissing peopleâs recovery stories and lying they didnât even have PFS or that most people who tried tribulus got worse? The irony is that you donât even have PFS but PAS that could require completely different methods than PFS patients to recover. Are you sure you donât have depression, adrenal fatigue or some allergy?..See how that works? Stop dismissing peopleâs recoveries because it doesnât fit your agenda.
I would like to remind you there are MANY recoveries on this and other sites from PFS.
Yes we need science looking into this but itâs very naĂŻve to think they will come up with a cure anytime soon.
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Yes, science will take time, probably a lot of time and there is no guarantee it will yield results. Itâs only naive if you think this will be fast and easy. But expecting a long, complicated and difficult journey to investigate this condition is the only rational approach to this. In fact, pretending that you could solve a complicated condition on your own by some fasting, exercise and supplements is naive. And it is a failed approach that has been tried and tested countless times for way over a decade.
I have been on this forum for many years and have read pretty much every ârecovery threadâ on this forum and others looking for âthe cureâ. There definitely arenât âmany recoveriesâ. Most recoveries are false dawns (i.e. people did not really recover and returned), could not be replicated by others or are people who had this conditions for only a short time. And guess what, many people improve early in, irregardless of what they do or do not do. And many people with mild symptoms ârecoverâ after some time. There is no clear pattern that demonstrates that any drugs, supplements, exercises or other actions help people recover, which means most recoveries are likely natural, pure luck or fake.
Your âletâs take actionâ stance is mistaken. First, nobody is saying people should just wait. People should take action, i.e. help with the many projects we have to generate awareness and initiate research. Second, there is no clear action to take to treat yourself. There is nothing that has reliably, safely and repeatedly help people with this condition.
Finally, please post your member story in the sub-forum, so that we know about your story, your symptoms and your âactionsâ.
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I agree with what youâre saying in regards to evidence-based treatments and research being the most feasible way forward (as that is how I am inclined myself), but I can see where @Das and others are coming from. People are entitled to make the autonomous choice to pursue treatments regardless of whether or not there is scientific literature backing Its efficacy for PFS patients. The same could be said about seeing a doctor donât you think? There has been very little proven success of people seeking treatment from medical professionals for our condition, and much of the treatments offered seem to be in vain. That doesnât mean people shouldnât have the choice to investigate and attempt to make improvements.
As long as there is acknowledgment pursuing certain interventions have the capacity to cause harm I donât think we should crap on others because of how they chose to deal with their condition.
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An this is why this forum has a bad reputation, the negativity is incredible.
Iâm not saying fasting or supplements is the key but it has helped many people and yes many did recover. It seems you didnât read the recovery stories at all or donât remember them, tribulus was part of many recovery stories. Just look at the many people in this thread alone who are saying it made them better. But yes most will need a bigger boost of course and will have to look into stronger things like PCT protocols, etc.
And yes youâre saying people should just wait. Iâm sorry but raising awareness, etc is not taking action to try and recover, it wonât help you and youâll still be here for years and years hoping some cure will pop up. Donât misunderstand me though, your type of action also has its merits but that will not get you cured and maybe they will never find a cure or in the best scenario in 10+ years. The alternative, trying various protocols to recover sounds like a better alternative no?
May I ask you what you did to try and recover? Youâre here since 2012 right? How did the waiting strategy work out for you? I know where it gets youâŚnowhere. Iâve been waiting to recover naturally for 4 years now and Iâm still not better. I was a fool listening to the advice of âjust waitâ that many here subscribe to.
Look at it logically. Weâre already down, it canât get much worse and there isnât a lot to lose.
Scenario 1: Wait and donât take any steps to recover but you raise awareness,⌠hope they come up with a cure and if lucky be recovered in 10/20 years. Meanwhile youâre getting older and life flies by. Could also be they never find a cure and you will be stuck with PFS forever.
Scenario 2: You take real action and try various protocols to try and recover. Maybe you will have to try for years and maybe nothing works. But atleast you tried and wonât be bitter later on in life that you never tried anything to improve your condition. And in some rare cases it could be youâd be even worse than when you startedâŚbut weâre already in a deep pit with not much to lose anyway. Itâs a risk any rational man would take, if not I doubt your life is really that affected by PFS.
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Thatâs where we disagree. In my experience more people get worse than better. And yes, many people have much to loose. Many here just have some libido and ED issues. Now compare that to the worst cases here whose bodies are basically falling apart. A lot of people say âit cannot get worseâ, only to find out they are wrong. I have seen enough cases go from mild to severe, and I have been in a much worse place than now with my condition to know that it can get significantly worse. Thatâs a very real risk, while the evidence that you get better with herbs and stuff is murky at best.
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Yes I will. And to be clear here, I support all of the various actions this organization does like raising awareness, organizing, etc.
I just hate the negativity of some of the users here but I understand why they became bitter, PFS is horrible.
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