Update: still completely recovered, raging libido for the last four years

Therapeutic Efforts
#23

Yes i believe our androgen is up-regulated not down-regulated.
But keep in mind AR up-regulation is different to AR density, so your theory still makes sense, because the tribulus would increase the receptor density and then the receptor could function better on lower levels of DHT. Because our DHT level is normal but it is the receptor that is up-regulated, so we either have to down-regluate the receptor to come inline with the normal DHT level or increase each receptor density so they work with the normal DHT level.

Our receptor is down-regulated while on finasteride as per this study:

But it becomes up-regulated 2 fold when we cease finasteride as per this study:

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#24

What about 5-AR? One of the main hallmarks of PFS are reduced neurosteroid levels in the CNS which points to a permanent, likely epigenetic downregulation of 5-AR (type I). Simultaneously, having symptoms like reduced genital sensitivity would point to a concurrent downregulation of 5-AR type II as well.

I am not aware how levels of 5-AR are normally controlled by the body. Restoring androgen receptor sensitivity is one thing, but unless this also somehow contributes to a restoration of 5-AR enzyme activity throughout the entire body we will not be attacking the root cause.

Well whatever the way that Tribulus works, it seems promising for at least a few of the issues, so I will continue taking it even though there is no way for us to know the exact science behind what is happening here.

#25

You must taper off or you will lose the gains

#26

Sorry it took me a while to reply, I did not keep a journal but I reeconstructed my schedule above to the best of my ability

#27

Thanks for the info Apr1989, so how many cycles have you done? how many before you notice an improvement. Also will you continue this protocol indefinitely?

#28

@Apr1989 Thanks for posting this, trying the Sopharma Tribulus in the next few weeks. Just to be clear, you’re saying you’re cured? But it seems you need to keep up these Tribulus cycles and you can’t ejaculate a lot or you run the risk of crashing? Is this correct?

#29

No, I stopped taking tribulus from 2015 through 2018, I went back on it last summer to see if I could get my mustache and chin to turn completely black again, during pfs it was mostly blonde and it had darkened with each tribulus cycle, from 2015-2018 when I had no tribulus I was completely cured, there were a few times when I was ejaculating multiple times a day for many days in a row that I felt a slight dip in libido, and once at the end of 2014 in the winter that I ran out of tribulus and was not careful to wean off slowly enough, I was taking three pills a day if I remember correctly, and some of my symptoms partially returned, and it took a few cycles to get back to normal, and another time I stayed awake for more then 36 hours and I also had a significant drop in libido, and I cannot remember if any of the other symptoms slightly returned, after a few weeks of reducing my ejaculation fequency I was back to normal

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#30

I cannot remember exactly how many cycles I did or how long before I saw improvement, I think I started seeing signs of improvment within the first month, I took the cycles for about four or five months before I was cured, then I had no tribulus for three years, but started taking it again last summer because I wanted to get my mustache and chin to turn completely black again since it had darkned a little bit every month that I was taking tribulus

#31

Be careful with that, you might get a brand that does not work and then just give up because you think tribulus does not work, if I were you I would just take MediHerb and not mess around, if you take another brand make sure it is made of only the aerial parts (leaves and stems) with no fruit (the prickly part) or stamen parts (flowers) because I tried a liquid tribulus brand first that someone had used who was cured and had posted his story in the cured section on the old propeciahelp website, and it was also Bulgarian tribulus and the bottle read that it was made of either the flowers or the whole plant or maybe it just read stamens, I cannot remember, and during my research on protodioscin I called that company and they had changed their formula within the last couple of years, and they used to only use the leaves and stems, I did a lot of research on tribulus brands and most brands for some reason do not use only the leaves and stems, MediHerb exclusively uses leaves and stems, which was exactly what I was looking for, they have an entire description of their harvesting process on their website

https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/MediHerb/Tribulus#.XGL6GHROnqA

1 Like
#32

Hm good point. It says here that fruit does not contain a lot of protodioscin and the products which are made out of fruit are inferior:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/protodioscin

The VemoHerb Tribulus that I use claims it uses the fruit, sadly:

image

I paid a lot for it so I will try to finish the bottle - and I do feel some effect, but if it doesn’t turn out to be enough then I will use the brand that you used.

#34

@Apr1989, what was the length of time between quitting finasteride and the beginning of your recovery?
Were you still in the first year of PFS when you started improving?

#35

It had been about one year, maybe ten or eleven months before I started taking tribulus, I was cured probably about one year and four months after the crash, for those ten or eleven months I had no improvement at all, I was completely impotent, my penis was numb and narrow, I had constant ringing in my ears, I had muscle twitches all over my body, light sensitivity, cognative and memory problems, and I could only sleep for a few hours at a time with zero change or improvement, if you are wondering if this was something my body did on its own, I can assure you my body did not suddenly change with no improvement after almost a year of no changes at all, also on the old layout of this website they had a section for cures, most of them involved tribulus, which is why I first started reseaching tribulus, this was not something my body just did on its own, the beginning of my improvement directly correlated with starting tribulus, and I could see the progressive changes with each cycle, I also was diagnosed as having pfs six months into the disease by Dr. Michael Irwig of George Washington University School of Medicine who is one of the pfs specialists listed by the pfs foundation

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#36

What old propecia website? I thought this was the original?

#37

On this website there used to be a cure section which had about 15-20 stories in it, most of them involved tribulus as part of their story, and many of them were cured only from taking tribulus

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#38

Interesting. Adding it to the list of things to try if what I’m doing now doesn’t work

#39

I’m wondering, lots of people have tried the Tribulus protocol - various ways. Some even using the real Bulgarian potent stuff. But there are many who didn’t really notice anything happening to them, even when starting with a very low dose and building over time. I’m wondering if anyone has not seen an effect from Tribulus and then suddenly started noticing effects when they tried a different methodology, such as dosage, timing, etc?

What can be said of the people who simply notice nothing? Do they have an androgen resistance that is so strong that their body just simply doesn’t respond to something like Tribulus period?

How those people optimize their sensitivity to this drug? Or is there a different protocol or strategy all together that these people should use?

I’m starting my Sopharma Tribulus treatment when it arrives later this month, but having tried Tribulus before, I noticed it work for maybe a day upon first use, and then suddenly my body had zero reaction to it after.

#40

Great questions.
Seemingly, there is some silencing in receptors. Most recoveries stem from repeated introductions of a pro-5ar substance.
Myself included, it took about 4 cycles of R andro, and then abstaining for some time to reach how I feel today.

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#41

What is R-Andro? Basically pine pollen?

1 Like
#42

Thanks @Trump_1776,

I’ve heard of R-Andro mentioned here a few times with some success - I wound up purchasing what I thought was the correct stuff here: https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/r-andro-shred-by-hard-rock-supplements

However, it really didn’t have any effect whatsoever on me, I literally felt nothing (kept upping the dose etc
 and still nothing). Is that the correct formula?

What effects have you noticed from having done 4 cycles? You said these cycles are what got you to where you we’re today, can you let us know how this changed you and what symptoms it affected? Thanks!

#43

How is your tinnitus and penile and scrutom numbness?