UK guy, sufferer of 10 months, story and recovery plan

Member Stories
#21

Hi Guys,
i know i said i was going away for a year, but my beautiful girlfriend tested pregnant the other day. I can’t tell anyone yet but my relief is so great (i tested infertile 3 months ago) that i thought i would post as it is further evidence of recovery. Maybe it will motivate some of you - i don’t know. It is nice to post it too as i’m very happy about it.

I don’t think i said in my first post but i was suicidal for the first few months post fin. It was the change in diet, exercise and mental state that turned things around.

I’ve read the replies, many of them negative. There are 100’s of recoveries. There are so many that just mention it in various forums and don’t post under a big recovery banner. For example i read a month ago that one user on here had fully recovered after his first use of fin, but then went back on it! - I think it was a user called bizzbee or similar. I’ve read of loads of other recoveries on the hair loss and other forums, and very importantly, there are countless examples of 70% to 95% recoveries.

Ultimately i can only tell you my story. I was suicidal, infertile, suffered ED and about 20 other symptoms. Pretty much the moment i implemented my plan (based on virtually every partial or full recovery story i have read) I felt better.

I continue to improve and to adapt my recovery plan according to need whilst never losing my discipline. I know it is tough, but it is the greatest challenge of my life and i like the difficulty of it, it is nothing if not interesting and challenging. I have found there is no greater test than looking at your diminished self and still finding positivity. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes i fail at that. But every day i get better at it and every month i notice improvements.

A big thing happens when you commit to a sensible individualised plan based around healthy living and exercising like an alpha male - you get improvements, you get hope, you build on improvements and at some point you know for sure you will recover 100%.

I now know for sure i will recover 100%. I know for sure that my protocols will get me there way sooner than i would have done by carrying on as normal.

Those arguing that you cannot recover or are unlikely to recover are failing to respond to the simple logic of their situation, which is:

1- You are ill
2- It is an inescapable fact that telling others and therefore yourself that you are a-unlikely to recover b-won’t recover, cannot help you recover, whether recovery is 10% or 100% or something in the middle.
3- Following a strict (sensible) recovery protocol will help you recover to some extent and may cure you one day

Hence, your ill, point number 2 cannot help you, point 3 almost certainly will to some extent, it may even cure you in time.

The result is that it is pointless wasting even a second thinking or typing or saying anything negative at all about recovery possibilities unless of course it is to highlight a clearly unwise or damaging protocol. It is illogical to do anything other than focus on your recovery plan and then make it your life. This is inescapable logic.

Here’s some more inescapable logic:

How you think, what you say to yourself and others affects how you feel the day after and the day after that.

We are still human beings and are still functioning 90% correctly (you breath, think, feel pain, work, eat etc. etc. - Hence:

If you implement measures proven to make humans happier, healthier, stronger, more positively hormone abundant, then you cannot fail to improve. These are the things proven to improve those areas:

1- improve gut function by testing for paracytes that thrive in times of stress - if you have any (as i did) then contact a nutritionist and make it better.
2- Test major areas like thyroid, adrenals, cortisol, T levels, because if any of those are significantly out, you must take action otherwise recovery will not be possible.
3- Exercise sensibly but powerfully, like an alpha male. sprints, lift heavy weights for short period, calisthetics (may have spelt that wrong)
4- eat a paleo type of diet, as organic as possible
5- intermittent fasting
6- Carb backloading (in my case i do this with low glycemic veg and nuts as i’m currently fighting parasytes)

The above are dead certs, evidence based methods. Personally i also cycle T boosting supplements as i get morning and nocturnal erections while doing it, i don’t so much without them. I do loads of other stuff too like cold water swimming etc. etc. but this not stuff that is proven etc.

Someone asked me whether i fasted for 8 days, like some badge of honour. The answer is no, i personally think that fasting for that amount of time is not sensible. Evidence based trials shows that there is a significant spike in LH and T after fasting for just 56 hours and potentially much less. I might be wrong, but logic would suggest that taking a weakened human with muscle wastage etc. and putting him through 8 days or even 14 days (like cdnuts) with just water is not going to help. Will it make you feel better after it? Of course it will, it is an achievement, a big one - but is it a sensible one that makes you healthier longer term? For me no, but maybe for you yes. This is just my opinion.

I’ve gone on a bit longer than intended, my main point here is my astonishment with those dwelling on the odds of failure etc. Forget that shit guys. You’ve life to live, get the fuck on with it and get a bit better, a lot better or cure yourself - any 3 of those is better than the former.

Now i’m off my soap box, i have one nagging problem that isn’t improving and i think it’s because i have tested 3 times with undetectable levels of estrogen (ie below 18) - my knuckles hurt 2 out of 10 and i think i am having a bone density issue.

I need to increase estrogen a little, does anyone know how to do this? - please don’t suggest estrogen mimics like soya etc. as they downgrade the receptors to real estrogen which is way more powerful (i will have some real stuff i just don’t know how much) I’ve cut out the powerful anti aromatose agents from my diet like pomegranite juice but issues persist and i’m a bit stumped on this. I am doing my best to raise T to a level that natural aromatisation solves this, but in the mean time does anyone have any suggestions?

Also, does anyone else have achy knuckles/hands/bones and what are your estrogen levels?

Thanks for any answers to that, i really did just come here to tell you guys my girlfriend is pregnant. The little fucker talks to me now, tells me it needs me to stop worrying when i worry, tells me it needs me to get better, to bring it up and be the best dad i can be.

The little fucker is another powerful motivator. Remember, i was told i was virtually sterile 3 months ago with almost no chance of conception - lucky i took no notice and upped my recovery plan.

Back in 2 weeks to see if any decent suggestions re estrogen, then i’m disappearing again.

Take care guys x

#22

English that’s fantastic mate! Congratulations! As for the estrogen, that’s quite perplexing. Have you been driving it down yourself with supplements/drugs? Have you considered that maybe you’re just a low estrogen kinda guy? It’s very strange for a man to have to low estrogens without some kind of intervention.

Apologies for not being more helpful in that regard, I just wanted to congratulate you on your upcoming child!

#23

Hi Terrified,

Thanks for the congrats mate.

Regards undetectable estrogen, no i take nothing to impede aromatose, the t boosters i cycle are not anti-estrogen either - ive checker. Unfortunately just being one of those guys with low e means also ending up with arthritis etc. while still young. It also gives many other problems including heart, skin, etc. and may well account for my shitty skin right now.

One thing i didn’t say, is that i broke my back while pole vaulting when i was 16. I suffer alot with low back pain and i can’t risk more than this past year with depreciating bones. My knuckles are killing me so that is a sign to do something about it.

I spent 8 months hassling doctors and endo’s to prescribe me clomid just in case, but i never used it. I have it in the cupboard as a mental aid just in case my balls shrivel up to nothing or whatever.
I never thought i might use it for estrogenic qualities but i’m seriously thinking about it now. I’m currently on a regime very similar to Chi’s and you can’t keep that up if your back turns to chalk.

I’ve read alot about clomid failures here though and i know i must do something different. Firstly, i cannot find a single other male anywhere here or anywhere else without any detectable e. For that reason, i might be one of those lucky fuckers that respond brilliantly to Clomid as mostly it is the estrogen issue along with SHGB that make it a bad option for us. Secondly, i haven’t noticed anyone trying clomid while continuing the crazy recovery schedule i do and that chi/cdnuts did.

So, although i hate doing it i think i might have to try it, however, i will be doing it like no-one else:

1- 1st week 25mg a day then bloods
2- 12.5mg every other day, like legend, on weeks and off weeks
3- while continuing with the fitness and diet regime

I’ve checked and studies show that long term use of clomid in hypogonadal men does indeed increase bone density as the it is only the hypothalmus e receptor that is blocked.

I do not intend to stay on it long term. I will be content to do it in 3 month cycles as a very weak dose. This will repair bones and let time pass while eating and working out like a mother fucker.

I will keep going off it for longer and longer while monitoring my own e production during off cycles.

I feel i have no choice. One thing is for sure, it will be an interesting experiment, one that i didn’t want to do, but such is life.

I will report back. At the moment i’ve booked in for bloods on the 9th of this month for one final check of T and E. If no good i will start the clomid.

Beating PFS is quite hard isn’t it.

#24

Having said i was leaving this place for a year, unfortunately i’ve been dragged back by very painful knuckles and toes. This prompted me to look at possible causes, and as per above post i assumed it was my undetectable estrogen (in the UK they have real sensitive tests that can pick up anything from 18 + whereas most other places pick up 36 +) I’ve tested undetected 3 times in a row so it’s very low.

However, for the sake of completeness i viewed my previous bloods and noticed something relating to immunity that i thought needed to be shared, given that many, many pfs sufferers think immunity and gut function are the reasons for going down with this thing in the first place, including myself.

The complete blood panel i had done in Dec '13 shows i have low white blood cell count, also every other type of type of immunity cell that makes up the white blood cell count (lymphocytes B and T etc)

This strongly hints at an immune disorder. Clearly i need this looking into. Interestingly i had bloods done about 5 years ago that revealed a low white blood cell count (before fin), however i was otherwise healthy then and the doc said to me “oh well, some people do, if your feeling fine crack on”

When i saw the bloods back in December i skipped over them thinking that was consistent with the past when i was healthy so nothing to dwell on. Back then i was focused on nothing but testosterone.

Now i’m wiser. It seems to me that my defences were down while taking fin and when i stopped, perhaps as a result of always having the parasytes that i have recently detected in my gut, perhaps something else. Either way, my body was coping with the problem minus fin, but then add fin to the mix and it must have been the straw that broke the camels back.
Look at those that have forced recoveries upon themselves via low glycemic healthy living (chi, cdnuts, mitch), look at those that have tested their gut function like me and chi, both finding shed loads of infection.

For me, there’s a common denominator forming here - immunity. 75% of immunity is from the gut. When both immunity and gut function collapse (hasn’t just about every pfs sufferer reported reduced/significantly altered gut function?) the end result is always hormone imbalance.

I reckon there are other reasons too why fin brings about all this stuff, because there are other debilitating conditions that weaken the body.

Surely the guys that react badly to fin and get pfs are the ones with pre-existing conditions that they didn’t know about, that were covered up by the strength of hormones and youth etc. that is then stripped by fin and further exposed by the stress reaction that comes from suddenly losing your male functionality.

I’ve been lurking, researching for 11 months. It’s just my opinion, but i am convinced that if we wish to recover, the start point should be the gut and immunity and build from there.

I hope this helps someone, as not may on here have before and after bloods, i don’t myself for anything but white blood cell count, but this is interesting isn’t it?

Personally this opens another can of worms. So frustrating after making such progress to have to start testing and looking into another 2 areas (WBC count and undetectable E) I was so hoping to quit researching and concentrate on nothing but recovery protocol. As blackadder once said, “the phrase rhymes with clucking bell” - only the brits will get that one.

Clearly the key here though is to press on with recovery protocol whilst doing the tests as if nothing has happened and there are no problems elsewhere, which is what i will be doing.

I’m getting up everyday at 6am now by the way, and swimming in the sea. I had the best nights sleep for a long time last night too - if you are struggling to sleep i strongly suggest you read “the effortless sleep method”

By for now, i will update when i get some results etc.

#25

Hey guys, just inspiring myself with recovery posts in the recovery section.

I read the recovery post from Boston which goes:

“Hello all. I was going through some old messages in my inbox and realized that a few people I had talked with early on who had recovered never made posts.”

He goes on to list some guys stories who had made complete recoveries but hadn’t even posted.

OK, so if one user suddenly happened across some guys he used to talk to and noticed they had now recovered, and they hadn’t made posts, that certainly means there’s loads more guys who disappear from here, recover and don’t feel the need to come back and depress themselves even more by posting here.

Yes this is a nightmare, but there are loads of guys recovering, and i bet the majority of the recoveries are from guys who don’t worry so much about it like us obsessed lot stuck reading horror stories on forums.

Fuck this, i’m off for good now. I’ll carry on my protocol until i recover, and i’ll definitely post when that happens. I personally find it very bad that so many people obviously recover and can’t be assed to give the hope to us lot that recovery stories give. Lazy uncaring fuckers.

Good luck guys, you’ll all fuck off from here and commit to live healthy lives with proper diet and exercise and wait calmly until you heal, if you’ve any sense at all. Do come back though and post your recovery story to at least give hope to the idiots who stay reading all the horror. Fucking crazy, can’t believe i got sucked in.

All the best x

#26

Finatruth… The font of all PFS knowledge

From what I’ve read from this thread, the bones of it are… eat healthy, exercise and will power will cure PFS - Bull Shite yet again - as Mew confirms too in this thread !!!

I’m with Mcibofh

#27

I can’t even argue with people anymore. 2.5 years and I am much much better, even that dizzyness I had and inability to focus / concentrate is gone completely.

#28

Not looking for an arguement, but you need to know your not always right and need to lay off people, especially mcibofh who is a great guy and good friend of mine !!!

#29

You don’t think I am trying to help him? You don’t think I’m here to make people feel better? To realize improvements happen slowly over years?

#30

Personally I thought you was a self righteous, obnoxious individual that ridiculed those with severe mental health problems as a result of taking propecia.

I thought you was here to tell everybody… YOU’LL BE FINE… JUST GIVE IT SOME TIME !!!

Well no… PEOPLE ARE NOT IDENTICAL TO YOU (Thankfully) Some people DO NOT improve as you have. Yes, the severity of my PFS condition has certainly eased in the past 19 months post drug but I am far from right. I am still 45% Impotent, with a penis that has shrunken almost 50% and I am still on anti depressants (Remeron). So I think you need to bear in mind that not all folk are the same as you and therefore take heed that your advice is not always right or welcomed, regardless of your supposed good intent. From what I’ve seen, in the vast majority of your posts, you tend to BARK or SHOUT at people if they dont do as you’ve told of them. A shining example of this was in your last post to mcibofh and plenty in the past aimed at myself too.

I’m done with trying educate you on how to look outside the box, because your experience does not replicate everybody elses and you need to take this into account before posting like… DONT YOU LISTEN, I’VE TOLD YOU BEFORE WHAT TO DO !!! It is’nt helpful and you should be grateful you have not suffered as bad as some on here which you constantly try to talk around to how things have improved for you.

Rant over… I’m not on here half as much as I once was. I pop by maybe twice a week now so try to take onboard somebody elses opinions instead of your own. I will not communicate with you anymore unless I see a change in your approach to people.

#31

Hi anyone interested.

I did not go on clomid, because i got my blood results back which i said in my last post i would wait for as i was very concerned at undetectable e which lead to achy knuckles. Very good results. T is now just over 500, e is 36. I am nearly 40 so these results are about average for a guy my age. Fuck that though, i’m gunna get them to 800.

To raise e naturally i ate grapefruit each morning and drank green t about 5 times a day the week before my latest bloods, both of which reduce the metabolism of whatever e you have. The days after i started doing this, the pain in my knuckles eased and at time of writing they are now virtually pain free.

I have posted that i feel 60 to 70% recovered and that i did not want to go on clomid, well now i know how to raise e there is no way i am going on clomid. By the way my last T reading before this one was just 306.

There are many on this website that don’t do the exercise and diet regime and prefer to blame this, that and the other for their condition, or claim only science or time will possibly find a cure. I can tell you now it is bullshit. From the hundreds of cases i have read about on this forum i would say i was affected as badly as maybe the worst quartile, shrunken balls, suicidal, dry thin skin, i was so nervous and anxious that i physically shook, my jaw hurt all day and i could not get it up, much of the remainder of my hair fell out, i lost 15% of my body weight in muscle, was tested infertile and i was right on the cusp of losing my job and business. That was the situation up to about the 6 month point. I then decided to fight back. In just 5 months my life is coming back to me, my girl is pregnant and i know i will fully recover, more than that, my girl sees how disciplined and courageous i have been and loves me more now than she would ever have before, she is now desperate to marry and so am i, but i refuse until i am 100% again. Would this recovery have happened anyway if i hadn’t started the most disciplined recovery programme imaginable? No fucking way, not in my opinion.

I know this thing is not completely related to T levels, but if you have low androgen levels you will never feel better as anyone with low androgen levels feels shit anyway, so clearly you have to build your androgen levels. Without higher androgen levels your androgen receptors will never rebuild or recover, the same for whatever else has been damaged by fin.

People who are even moderately stressed, or never exercise or are too overweight almost always have low androgen levels.

So if you are one of the negative fuckers who think that they are not in control of their own destinies are by virtue of that stressed out and not in control. You will never recover unless you believe, start a recovery plan and relax. It is you guys i am most concerned about and why i came back and posted again, i read you people arguing that it is just another exercise plan or that pfs is too complicated and needs scientists. Well scientists may well come up with a cure, but arguing that they are all you have in your corner or that healthy living etc. won’t work cannot possibly help you.

Take my advice or not, if you are too fucking stupid or lazy then crack on, enjoy your pfs.

Me, i am getting better, 12 months in i am 70% recovered. If you want to better your situation or even fully recover, do this:
Eat brilliantly, palleo type diet, low glycemic foods and pretty much all organic, get it delivered by one of the many companies out there, most even do organic meat and gluten free sausages etc.
Eat a fried breakfast at least 5 days a week, bacon, sausages, mushrooms, tomato, eggs. It is lovely and it is not only low glycemic, high protein but T feeds off quality saturated animal fats and protein - enjoy.
Say goodbye to all toxic stuff, alcohol, cigarettes, even deoderant. Use oil of magnesium as deoderant.
take a gut test for bacterial infections like candida, there are about 15 of them out their, if you have any, hire a nutritionist for about £150 to get them under control
fast intermittently
shower in a freezing cold shower every morning and night, do this for as long as it takes to clean your teeth while your in there, it takes your mind off it and keeps you in there long enough to get properly cold. this helps your immune system and chills your balls which helps t production, it also fires you up for the day, or makes you want your bed badly to warm up.
take iodine - personally i do the ball painting thing
cycle test boosters
lift heavy weights when you can, up to 2 or 3 times a week
do sprints, or if your me and have a broken back, do 500m rowing sprints. It is a mistake to ignore cardio workouts completely, as you need to be fit. Favour weights, but be fit too.
get up at 6 to 630am every morning, go to bed only when you’re tired. Doing this dramatically improved my sleep. If you’re a human being then it will help you too, and lose your fear of sleep, “it doesn’t matter if you don’t sleep well” - think like that and you’re sleeping will improve, and stop taking anything for sleep, nothing fucking works, it is all in the mind when it comes to sleeping.
You are not broken, like me, you fucked up by taking a harmful pill for reasons of vanity, that is your fault (as well as merks), but leave it now, put it behind you, you made a mistake. Since making that mistake you have thought about all the terrible things happening to you, that you are in decline at a young age etc. etc. that you will never recover etc. etc.
All of those thoughts make it worse. Stop that shit, but go easy on yourself, mental repair doesn’t happen overnight.

Work yourself up to doing all of the above gradually as there is no fucking way you will do all that overnight, but start now and revel in your increased discipline week by week.

I remember CDNUTs arguing with someone who said i can’t do it for this reason or that reason… he replied: start by picking up your knife and fork (he was refering to exercise not eating by saying that)

I was so bad, so dizzy, so weak, that i started with the first step too. I picked my knife and fork. Now i can lift 100kg 10 times 5 sets. 6 months back i could only lift my knife and fork.

Take my advice, or don’t. I have laid out the big things that work above, and yes i do lots of other things too like swimming in the sea and meditation etc. and yes i had to control cortisol first before hitting it hard- you might have to control your thyroid or whatever first, but when your big issues are under control, you can start pushing, and from the vast majority of the bloods i have viewed on this site, 90% of people are ready to start recovering, they are just too weak minded and full of excuses.
Do you want to be that guy in 5 years time, still suffering, that never really tried to control the one thing in his control? Diet and exercise? Do you want to be that guy belingerently telling everyone this kind of plan won’t work, whilst thinking to himself in the quiet moments “shit, i don’t know for sure it doesn’t, what if?”

Up to you, i’m done on this site for a while, but i had to demonstrate my protocol works, especially after receiving my latest bloods. It is not coincidence, because i tailored it to me around the plans of the other recoveries of chi, cdnuts and mitch. I start my plan and 6 months later i’m nearly recovered.

Mods, please post this one, i appreciate why you didn’t post my last posts, but i have copied and pasted this and will send it via e mail to many of the current users of this site if you don’t.

Good luck guys, i will be back when completely recovered to help others.

#32

Fantastic post!!! You have pointed out some hugely important things, including the high fat low

#33

English,

First: congrats on the pregnancy and your continued improvements.

I have a question for you though. It isn’t meant to be combative or rude. I believe I am taking a realistic approach to this mysterious situation we find ourselves in.

Question: How can you, or anyone else (cdnuts, Finatruth, etc.), be so adamant that your PFS situation is the exact same as the other sufferers?

I’m not asking that to be an asshole; I’m genuinely interested in how some people think their experiences are the “normal” when it comes to PFS.

If there is anything I have learned after two years of living with PFS and reading this board it’s this: no one knows shit. Period.

We have no clue whether people have the same exact problems inside of their bodies.
We have no clue whether the same recovery protocol with work for everyone.
We have absolutely no clue how this medication fucked us up.

We do know that many people have the same sides, but that many people don’t share the same sides.
We do know people have tried the same recovery protocols with wildly varying degrees of success and failure.
We do know that it took people varying amounts of time to get PFS; and some people experienced a crash while others did not.
We do know that all of the recovery stories list wildly different protocols (progesterone, parasites, t boosters, etc.); there’s no consistency.

I mean, you have some people that say, “Progesterone is the key!” and others that say, “Parasites are the key,” and others that say, “T boosters are the key!” Really, any rational person with look at all these wildly varying stories and think, “Um, nothing is certain here.”

People can have their personal theories, that is perfectly fine. If you just look at all the information rationally and without bias, the only real conclusion is that we really can’t make ANY conclusions at this point!

To say that “This is how PFS affected me,” and “This is how I am recovering,” and “If you don’t do what I’m doing to recover you’re wrong,” is completely without any rational evidence based what we know.

At this point it’s a complete possibility that some people can recover 100% from this mess, but it’s also not out of the question that some permanent damage has been done to some people. We just don’t know.

This has nothing to do with positivity or negativity; I’m perfectly fine with people’s positive posts. I’m having trouble comprehending how certain people think other peoples PFS experience should exactly mirror their own.

Anyway, again, I’m not trying to argue or anything. I’m just trying to understand how people can assume their personal experience with this, and their recovery methods, are automatically supposed to be the same for everyone else. I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong, I’m just saying there’s no evidence as of yet to prove anyone right.

Thanks,

Matt

#34

Thanks English, I’m having a shitty day today and just need this to stop. People like you make me realise it can be done. So much negativity towards your school of thought here that its hard to fight your own negative feelings.Do you mind telling us how you put your protocol together in that state? I’m see-sawing between feeling like I’ve lost everything and wanting to faceplant a train, just so I don’t have to have it taken little by little and wanting to dance with the devil and win. This is such an awful condition. Its like purgatory.

Thanks again, English. I hope I can follow your example, the stuff about your soon to be wife especially made me smile.

#35

While I agree with going the healthy route, it cant hurt you. It just doesn’t really make allot of sense. At my worst fitness levels in life I never had any of the problems I have now. People like you also rattle off 70% better. Well that’s great! What the fuck does that really mean. All the things below happened to me after 3 weeks of Fin use. I am approaching 6 months off. The only shit that has gotten better is Fatigue and Insomnia.

Chronic pain underside of penis and balls. My genitals hang off my body like they are dead. Increasing physical activity seems to intensify pain in genitals and prostate area. My dick and balls detaching from my body was my first most noticeable effect. Then came the rest, shortly after.

Dry eyes
Blurry vision
Contrast issues, normal screen brightness seems more intense and bothers me.
After images that don’t clear quickly & floaters

Slow processing of information, I walk from the table to get a cup a few feet away. Then forget I was doing for a second. This often creates a panic feeling because I know I shouldn’t be forgetting things like this.

Emotional Bluntness, I don’t get excited about anything. Everything seems like drudgery, even fun things. Its not depression its just a missing emotion. This causes me anxiety because I know its missing. When something in my life happens and I cannot react to it like I should. All my interactions in the world have no meaning. I don’t plan anything anymore. Most of the time I don’t remember what is happening the next day or days.

Extremely poor digestion and stomach pain. I often have food go in and come out looking the same. Very painful digestion process.

Dry mouth, this is really bad at night.

Joint inflammation, (again gets worse with increased activity)

Insomnia

Shrunk weak lady hands, forearms, lower legs

Thin skin on arms and hands

Facial Changes

Hip pain

Slow Healing

Fatigue

Bone Pain

Lower sensation in skin

#36

I’d take 10% a year man. You don’t seem to understand that our health before this means nothing. Something has gone horribly wrong in our bodies, all bets are off, the man you were before… Is irrelevant. Its obviously some kind of genetic predispositon.

People like English give some of us hope. Why do you want to take that away? Have you tried a protocol for six months/year and had -zero- improvements? Could you tell us about it if so?

#37

I had to come back briefly to see the initial reactions, at some point soon i will apply the same discipline to leaving this board to fully recover as i have my recovery protocol.

For now, i have to reply - to try to help not just argue. It did not surprise me to read a couple of negative(ish) replies because that is the mindset pfs puts you in, i was in it myself and to some degree my sub-conscious is still in it. There is no way you can just erase an experience so terrifying and life changing from your mental state. It takes years.

There are a couple of replies that are basically the same - they go like so many others which is “Oh sure you’re recovering, you’re one of the lucky ones, but i’m different or am likely to be different and not able to be cured, i have something you don’t, or you have something i don’t or my genes are wrong or my ar5 enzymes are broken or my T is too low or i’ve got dry skin and a shrivelled dick and small balls and therefore i can’t recover or are unlikely to recover etc. etc. etc. …”

STOP IT

I don’t think for a minute that we all have exactly the same issues, we don’t, but we do share the vast majority of major symptoms that carry with the very frightening phrase “PFS”. We are all human beings and we react to external and internal stimuli in 99.99% the same ways. We have been affected by a drug and in part we have allowed ourselves to spiral down and down, partly out of fear at the initial reaction to a very dangerous drug - dangerous for some people anyhow.
What disease or medical issue do any of you guys know that carries the same symptoms for everyone? None, everyone is affected slightly differently to each medical disease and problem in the world, but the main symptoms are same or similar, hence people are diagnosed on the basis of the main symptoms, for cancer, for adverse reactions to nuts, and for adverse reactions to fin.
Bottom line though, we have the same thing, we are the one in a hundred/thousand, whatever, that have reacted badly to the cessation of this drug - we are all in the same boat, and that is the same level of assumption as a doctor gives to a cancer patient that shows x y z symptoms and tests x y z which is consistent with cancer. Can anyone be 100% positive of anything in this world, no, but based on self analysis, testing, research, previous experience etc. we can get to a point 99.9% certainty.
In summary, you have pfs, or the thing that someone called pfs, i have it, we have it, we’re in the same boat, move on people…

To get out of this fucking horrible boat, different people have to do different things, some have to stand up and step over all manner of shit, like left over fishing nets and slippery dead fish and the boat rocks because your right on the end or the side or whatever, some guys are sitting right by the side of the boat next to the steps of the harbour wall, they stand up and get out easy as you like. But the common denominator (and this is very important) is that they all have to:
A- make the decision to get out of the boat
B- All have to stand up
C- All have to climb out of the boat to one degree or another in order to get clear from their position in the shitty fucking boat

Now staying in the boat, wondering whether everyone’s in the same position, whether everyone’s exit will be the same or not, wondering whether you have a pair of shoes on that will definitely slip and throw you over the side etc. will not start you on the process of getting out of the shitty fucking boat - and this boat is an awful color, it fucking stinks too man.

People tell you that other people might be coming to help you out of the boat (they’re the scientists) but you don’t know this for sure, it is a rumour that these guys will there soon to help, but shit, that rumour seems to have been going round for years and nothing yet has happened. Strange though, some guys feel that is comforting so just sit in the boat anyway waiting for the guys to help them out of it. That might just be human nature - i guess we’re all a bit different.

I’ve made my point in a very simplistic way, but what you guys who are sitting in the boat wondering about shoes or the men coming to help you out of it need to consider, is that there are guys around you just standing up and getting out of it, they are showing common denominators that work to get them out. I appreciate that Chi has asserted that the gut is the main answer, that CDNUTS is certain that fasting is the main answer, that everyone has a theory. The reality though, is that you have chosen to simply hang on to the easy escape route of saying: ah yes but everyone says it is this or that therefore no-one knows anything - once again it is human nature choosing the easy route: sit in the boat and wait for help, that is millions of years of evolution that have moulded humans to pick the path of least resistance, both mentally and physically, and this usually works, but not in this shitty boat we are all still in. You have to go counter intuitive.

The guys that have either fully recovered or partially recovered often have set theories, “ah yes, i have recovered and it is the gut” and this happens because they are ecstatic at the huge achievement they have accomplished and they wish to convey the answer. (i am not suggesting Chi said that, he thinks it may be but he is smart enough to know it may be a variety of things) However seeing the obvious flaw in some assertions is not a reason to ignore totally the common denominators of their recoveries. Doing this will- in my opinion - be likely to consign you to 5/10/20 years or a life of pfs torture.

There are common denominators. I have researched constantly for about 10 months and by the way i tested twice with an IQ in the 130’s in my 20’s. I can store information like few can, even in my weakened state. I’m not showing off because i’m fucking anonymous! I’m just saying there is a clear link between an exercise protocol and recovery states, and i am a reliable candidate to convey this to you based on my intelligence. Believe me, don’t believe me, i don’t care.

The biggest link to recovery though is the state of mind that goes with a recovery protocol. It is incredibly important to say to yourself and mean it: I have a path, i am confident of this path and i am following it, for 6 months with no exceptions. Get to the end of the 6 months and look for improvements, then carry on, improve, increase your recovery plan.
Your recovery protocol should be different to everyone else, it should be tailored to your specific needs, but ultimately if you choose not to include the common denominators that have got many either out of the boat or close to it, then you are braver than me.

My regime is so strict i barely have time to ponder pfs, it is so tough i am fucking exhausted at the end of each day, and guess what, i sleep better because of that. Now even the doubters must concede that sleeping better will take you forward right?

I am not saying that exercising is the answer, or that diet is the answer, or that meditation or cold showers are the answer, the fact is that if you were able to have your mind wiped of everything you’ve read, worried about, and you could chill out about your skin, your dick, your face, you may well recover without any exercise, good diet etc. who the fuck knows?

However - whether my suggestions work just to take your mind off things, or whether they work because they focus on proven methods that make humans more anabolic and hormone balanced and happy, it really doesn’t matter. The end result is that this type of recovery programme does indeed seem to yield dramatic recovery results.

Some people won’t respond in the same way if they are exercising and eating out of desperation and panic- i’ve done that, and got nowhere, and it took even my oversized brain about a month to realise that i wasn’t relaxing and enjoying the moment, i was in panic mode even though physically i was doing all the correct things, and no human being can possible recover when in a state of panic. Constant fight or flight mode will kill you eventually.

You doubters need to throw away your doubt and realise the damage your internal thoughts, written and spoken words are doing to you and others.

I advise any with a shred of doubt in their ability to recover to go to an insomniacs web forum, there are thousands of poor souls convincing and reinforcing in each other the incorrect belief that they cannot be fixed, because somehow they are different to normal people. They are not. They can sleep like babies if they throw away their pills, their incorrect beliefs and lose their fear.

I am not saying pfs is brought on by our minds - it’s obvious that fin changed our hormones and positioned us perfectly to spiral out of control, it is a wildy innapropriate and dangerous drug for hair loss in young men in particular and one day i hope Merk pay dearly for this. Be in no doubt though, you put it in your mouth.

For now, you can simply only attend to the things in your control. Moaning and reinforcing negative beliefs in yourselves and others cannot possibly help you. A sensible recovery program tailored to your needs based on proven common denominators - in my opinion - definitely will.

Many will still say - “It worked for him but i’m different”
And a very small percentage will say “It worked for him, and him and him. I have the same problem, it will work for me too”

The second lot of guys will recover eventually one hundred percent, and they will recover to some degree and their life will be twice as good within 6 months - if they are also sensible and not just over motivated.

Which group you fall into depends on genetics, will power, or a mixture. If you are not naturally a go getting positive mother fucker, the type that will tackle a mugger when everyone else watches then never mind, you still have the force of will, of character, which any of us kind find in tough times if you try hard enough. If you are not that bright then that is an advantage because less bright people tend to obsess and worry less, just use me or cdnuts or chi or mitch as a role model, you don’t have to work too much out, as long as you can read then just follow - but not totally blindly as not everything is possible for everyone - i am talking about fasting for 14 days or other such things that some could simply not physically do - if you’re not bright enough to drop crazy stuff (for you) then yep, you’re fucked.

It is possible for 90% of people here to recover. Believe me, or don’t.

In answer to a query about how i got this protocol together and started on it in my state, i started by picking up my knife and fork (as cdnuts said) i used him for inspiration, i could barely see the monitor but he inspired me to research more even though i know it scared me. I then carried on until i had a log of every recovery and partial recovery - i stripped the crazy things that may harm, i kept the crazy things that might work but could not harm (like ball painting), i found the big common denominators and applied them to me, which meant dropping some more things that initially i could not do due to weakness, dizziness etc.

In answer to the guy who listed all the things wrong with him, yeah i had all of that too. There’s him thinking "yeah but i’ve got all this wrong with me so we’re different, just like the guys in the boat waiting for the men to help them! I never have listed here all of my symptoms, just the main ones. They were fucking horrendous. I still have lots of stuff i don’t like, but many have gone or are clearing up. I’m not going to be 100% better, i am going to end up much better than i was, stronger, wiser, knowing how fucking impossible it is to keep me down unless you kill me. You can do it too, stop looking for reasons to fail and start looking for reasons to succeed.

In reply to what is 70% better anyway - who gives a flying fuck? Why are you obsessing over my definition of 70%? Of course my definition will be different to yours, but unless either you or i are a fucking moron, you might look at me and think i’ve recovered no less than 50% or you might think i’ve recovered no less than 90% For me, i estimate 70%. Stop obsessing, i’m loads better alright! I can have sex 3 times a day if i want. I get morning wood and nocturnal wood every night, my balls are normal size again. My brain fog is all but gone. I can do 30 pull ups, i can swim in the freezing sea and love it. I’m still a little anxious in the mornings, i still have dry skin but it is getting better, my hair is not great but weirdly is growing back to some extent. I’m still a stone under what i was but i have put on about a stone in the last 6 months so i’m on the way.
I looked a fucking mess, i still look a mess, but 70% less of a mess!

The challenge now for anyone reading this is to not post a negative comment, not even slightly negative. Post what you are going to do to help change things for the better. Remember that posting negative installs negative belief and cannot help you. Positive can help you, negative cannot. You decide whether you stay in the boat or decide to get out by your next post/comment/action.

And i don’t mean you should not question each other - ie do you really think it is sensible to do that? That is not negative, it is just a question, but questioning the merit of people trying to get of the boat with a plan is negative and thus pointless.

I’m not holding myself up as some kind of recovery genius, but i have noted that i am recovering quicker and in a shorter timescale from a severe case of the condition someone called pfs than anyone else i have read about, hence i found it a moral imperative to report comprehensively. I am also nearly 40 and have alot more life experience than some of you younger guys. I hope i have helped you at least a little.

Take care guys, i’ve taken care to write in a way that hopefully can be applied to 90% of sufferers. I will now apply the same discipline to not responding as i have to my recovery. I will be back for sure, and i will commit myself to helping write personal plans for those who want me to - but only after i am 100%. It is simply too risky to be here taking in negative stories and comments into my sub-conscious - it is the kind of thing that might keep me at 70% and not 100% which is not a risk i am willing to take when i have a family to bring up - i will be back though, when fully recovered. By for now.

#38

OK so i came immediately back! I did so because i experienced complete recovery during yesterday evening, throughout the night and this morning and at the time of writing.

This leads me to believe that writing on this forum (sticking only to my thread) is not having a debilitating effect, in fact it may be having a positive one, due i suspect to the fact that i am writing strongly in the positive, and am receiving complements via the board but also via direct e mail which affect my ego and sub conscious positively and hormonally too.

For this reason i will keep posting until such time as i think it is not helping me anymore.

During recovery it is important to keep changing your strategy according to bodily feedback and you should not be afraid to make a complete u turn or just a tweak when you see something significant change in you.

Now, regarding my transient complete recovery, i say transient because it will not last very long, a day or a week at most i predict. This is because of homeostasis, which is one of the most important things to understand both during your recovery and in understanding this or any illness.

Homeostasis and its relevance to my transient complete recovery:
I brought about his transient complete recovery partly due to my use of tongkat ali, and nettle root extract to lower my rising shbg level (31 to 51) also due to my long and positive post yesterday. However homeostasis will get rid of this recovery, which is the bodies way of deriving an equilibrium and balance by returning spikes and troughs to a level of balance that is generally the case in the body in question. It does it in ways we don’t fully understand, using chemicals, electrical signals, hormones and all manner of methods that don’t matter to us, providing we understand the principle.

It is possible to raise the normal balance (homeostasis) very gradually, it takes alot of time though. For our purposes we must create a long term environment for our bodies that require an abundance of hormones to function normally (normal homeostasis levels) By that i mean that our bodies must see that lifting weights, running, laughing, fucking, being in charge of stuff, is the norm and long term thing. I have done that recently (over the last 6 months) and in particular yesterday by posting very positively and by my very recent use of those herbs for shbg which brought about the transient complete recovery. That recovery will ebb away over the next week or so as my body will raise shbg levels again or lower my hormone levels a little or by some other misunderstood method, however when they balance out they will balance in a slightly better way, with slightly higher hormones/lower shbg or whatever, than just before the complete recovery.

Homeostastis is the major reason why most if not all forced recoveries (cdnuts, mitch, chi) experience dips, and overtraining is the other.

I was waiting for this complete recovery and obviously i am glad it has come. I am not excited, as i know it will subside, but i know it will come back for longer in the future and eventually stick as i raise the normal homeostasis of my body through consistently training, consistency thinking i’m the fucking man with a big swinging dick.

For now though it is lovely to have myself back, a very nice break indeed, however long it lasts.

I appreciate by the way that i might sound like the worlds biggest dickhead to some of you, but in reality i am actually a laid back family man and a nice guy (when not ill) It is a temporary thing that i have to be a raging bull, a force of nature that cannot be contained by pfs or anything. This is why in my lowest moments i have written that i enjoy the challenge when those lows come, because that turns negative into positive and raises the levels of homeostastis of even the normal bodily lows.

Someone will ask how i know i have experienced complete recovery - I am actually knackered at this moment because my throbbing hard on kept me awake much of the night. It was so unusual to feel it so hard again that it kept waking me up! I got up this morning at 6am with no anxiety or shaky feeling that i normally get for the first few hours of the day. The only things -obviously- that are not complete recovered at this moment are genital sensitivity and skin which are improving all the time but cannot recover overnight. I fucked my 24 year old beautiful pregnant girlfriend this morning and it felt like it did before. I woke her up at 6am!

Anyway, i hope this helps someone, before i go i will just mention the poem “if” by Rudyard Kipling. Read it people, print it off and put it on the wall or whatever. The most important part is the bit that treats victory and defeat just the same, both as imposters. This is why my current full recovery is nice, yes, but i give it no particular head. I give it the same head as my lowest low. I treat them both with contempt because i am above both states, i am therefore in charge of me, not some transient bodily condition. I am the man, the big swinging dick. I am in charge mother fucker.

If you understand this post and my methods by all means say so, if you don’t get it, fine, fuck off, but don’t be posting negatively on my thread, if you don’t like it, don’t read it and don’t come back. If you want to get out of the shitty boat and want to join me in my journey and my methods, take my hand brothers and we’ll help each other climb out.

A bit sickly that last sentence, but you get my drift, and i mean it about don’t post negative on my thread, if people keep doing that i will fuck off and the maybe one or two that would have been helped by this will be worse off, and even you negative guys surely don’t want that.

Bye for now.

#39

How bad was your muscle loss in terms of affecting your ability to lift weights and do sprints etc? Seeing as you said you lost 15% of your weight.

Did you get any genital shrinkage or discolourment down there?

#40

I wish I didn’t have to slog through all of the horror stories to find posts like this. I think I’m going to have to properly take a leaf out of English’s book and leave the forum for a while.
English mate, thanks for coming back here and sharing.
See you on the other side, my friend.