Total brain and Penis Disconnect....

First, here are my most current blood work results:
FSH 1.4L range 1.6 8.0
Test 629 range 250-1100
Free T 91 range 46-224
Bioavailable 174.3 range 110-575
SHBG 33 range 10-50
Albumin, Serum 4.2 3.6-5.1

Prolactin 9.3 range 2-18
Estradiol 41 range 13-54
LH 7.9 1.5-9.1

I have been off Fin for 8 years!!! I’m 38 and still have zero libido/ED/memory problems/numbness/ no connection between my brain and penis and zero pleasure during an “orgasm”. I just started Tamoxifen 10 mg a day and have been on it for 1 month. I believe whatever causes a disconnect between the brain and sexual desire is the culprit. Does anyone know what that is???

If we had the answers, this site wouldn’t exist. Review Dr. Traish and Dr. Irwig’s recent papers on the problem of persistent Finasteride side effects as they provide some thoughts as to possible areas for investigation (neurosteroids, androgens, androgen receptors, nerves, skewed hormone values etc).

How did it take you so long to find this site? Given that you’ve had such awful effects for so long.

There are long-time lurkers just like me. When I started having the problems this site did not exist. And even when I found this site I just read through it at first hoping I will not need to become a member (of course if I had recovered I would have become a member to report my story and to give hope to the desperate people - as I know how bad it feels in that state). I hoped time will help me overcome the issues. Unfortunately, I am suffering for almost eight years by now.

the brain to penis disconnect is not an endocrine issue. it is most likely neurochemical/nerve related.

Mew:

I have read those research materials (I think I have read all there is to read on this site). My understanding was that the prostate was effectively “shutdown” due to the lack of DHT. So, I’ve spent all of my time trying to heal the prostate gland with Zinc and exercise. This, after MANY prostate massages and antibiotic treatments. For me, it was like someone walked in the room and just shut off the lights; that’s how quickly I went from feeling normal to numb. My first endo visit was recent, as I have given up on urologists, and my E2 was 70, range < 54… I took Tamoxifen for 2 weeks and got my E2 down to 40 and will continue for a month longer. I don’t expect to ‘feel’ any improvement other than get my T to E2 ratio correct. And being on Tamoxifen actually make me feel worse…

It’s my ‘opinion’ that we (or I) am not androgen insensitive. Whatever mechanism that regulates libido is the most important missing piece to this puzzle… And that is the piece I’m looking for.

BTW

I have been reading this website since the beginning.

Nobody here benefited from using a SERM-only approach (clomid, tamoxifen), except Dury and cgj1, who were concurrently taking T4. Have you ever tested your thyroid hormones (TSH, FT4. FT3, RT3)?

A simplified version of what affects the libido, from what I understand…

Dopamine from what I understand is THE chemical in the brain that makes us horny and have a sex drive. When people say that TRT or any type of androgen makes them hornier…is it because it raises dopamine.

AcetylCholine is the transmitter that is sent from the brain through the spinal cord (nerves) to begin the NO --> CGMP —> erection cascade…

A quote from Dr Marianco

I have also taken Tamoxifen (SERM) and it made me worse. I only took it for one week (tapered it off when I first recognized the effects on day three). Can somebody tell me why it can get worse with it. I have read many people get better by it (see also in the recovery section).

i have been on tamixfen for 8 moths and its made no difference. When i first wentt on it things got worse, but i continued with it. The only time i saw some posative results was when i decded to stop it, but first tried doubling the does for 4 days. One of those nights i was very horny. The only time i felt like this in 1.5 years. I decided tamofixen was doing something so went back to usual does. I tried this experiment again recently but this time it had no effect and i felt really bad after it and still do several weeks later. I plan to come off it all together very soon.

it did raise my T from 10 to 17 on scale 8-30.

keepup

tamoxifen lowers your white blood cell counts (will make you very tired and foggy); it’s a chemo therapy drug that is usually well tolerated. it will raise your T level and certainly lower your E2. Is your E2 out of range? If it is not, I would not mess with Tamoxifen for too long and definitely taper off.

Who?

any advise on how to tapper off it?

Sure, consider the following pathways:
pregnenolone --> DHEA --> T
pregnenolone --> progesterone --> cortisol

By taking clomid, your body will increase the conversion of pregnenolone to DHEA, and will leave little to nothing to 1) be converted to progesterone or to 2) modulate neurotransmitters. The end result is high T, low pregnenolone, and low cortisol. You will know that you are here if you have the following symptoms on clomid:

  1. good beard growth, oily face, or acne (this shows that free T is high)
  2. brain fog, anxiety, fatigue (this shows that the cortisol production line is downregulated)
  3. heavy hairloss (this shows that progesterone is too low to effectively oppose T in hair follicles)

This is exactly what happened to me when I was on clomid last year. I took blood and saliva tests that show it.

m_81,

  1. You asked who recovered or at least got better by Tamoxifen. Look at the recovery section. There were three people (i think). However, it doesn’t seem to last. I went to Kos, Greece this summer for prostatitis treatment. JG for example was also there. He used Tamoxifen and recovered by 95%. He lived like that for a year or so. Then, he wanted to get back to 100% and he used dexamethasone which made it worse again so he is back at square one.

  2. Can you explain in detail, why Tamoxifen can make me worse. I didn’t fully understand your brief pathway description. You also mention clomid. It works differently. no?
    How long have you been on clomid. Have you been better or worse while on it and afterwards?

Thanks for your help.

m_81,
I took Tamoxifen 10 weeks ago and I am still worse than before. Nothing has got better (penis shrank even more etc.). I hope it will reverse slowly.

I think that tamoxifen and clomid work in a very similar way, but I’m not 100% sure. If anybody knows better, please chime in. I don’t want to completely derail this thread. I’ll post updates in my thread in a few weeks. In summary, I had already been on clomid a year ago and felt like crap. Now, I have started clomid again. I think that this time I won’t feel like crap because I’m boosting adrenal and thyroid hormones. Therefore, I should be immune to a lot of sides (brain fog, fatigue, depression, anxiety). We’ll see how it goes.