Took both Finasteride and Accutane. No "Crash" but might have fucked myself up

[Road]

Where are you from (country)?
Canada

How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?) Google search, "Finasteride side effects forum”

What is your current age, height, weight?
21, 6’3, 180lbs

What specific drug did you use (finasteride, dutasteride, saw palmetto, isotretinoin/Accutane, fluoxetine, sertraline, citalopram, leuprorelin, etc…)?

Finasteride and Accutane.

What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?

Finasteride: 0.5mg day

Accutane 40mg a day for most months, and some months as high as 80.

What condition was being treated with the drug?
MPB, severe acne

For how long did you take the drug (weeks/months/years)?
Finasteride - 2 years
Accutane - 7 months

How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start the drug?
December 14, 2018, age 18- finasteride
Somewhere in June 2019, age 19- accutane

How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?
Finished accutane in mid january of 2020. Age 20.
Quit finasteride in mid december of 2020. Age 20.

How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
Tapered off fin. Accutane cold turkey

How long into your usage did you notice the onset of side effects?
Hard to say. For fin it really became clear in late 2020 that something wasn’t right. So that’s around 2 years after starting. For accutane I’m not sure if it has done damage too, as it overlapped with my fin usage.

Check the boxes that apply. You can save your post first, then interactively check/uncheck the boxes by clicking on them. If your symptoms change, please update your list.

Sexual
[x] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[x] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[ ] Loss of Morning Erections
[x] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[x] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[x] Watery Ejaculate
[ ] Reduced Ejaculate
[x] Inability or Difficulty to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[x] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[x] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[ ] Confusion
[x] Memory Loss / Forgetfulness
[x] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[x] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ ] Severe Depression / Melancholy
[ ] Suicidal Thoughts

Physical
[x] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[ ] Testicular Pain
[x] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[ ] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[ ] Muscle Wastage
[ ] Muscle Weakness
[x] Joint Pain
[x] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[ ] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[ ] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[x] Tinnitus (ringing or high pitched sound in ears)
[ ] Hearing loss
[x] Increased hair loss
[x] Frequent urination
[ ] Lowered body temperature

[ ] Other (please explain)

What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?
None.

If you have pre or post-drug blood tests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (please post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

No hormonal blood tests yet.

Tell us your story, in your own words, about your usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

Being a vain, dumb teenager led me to taking both of these awful drugs. It’s something I will probably regret forever.

I quit finasteride 5 months ago after noticing brain fog, anhedonia, loss of libido / erection quality, and sexual pleasure. After quitting, I didn’t experience the typical PFS “crash” many users report, rather the side effects have remained. I am also wondering if accutane use has something to do with my current state.

As for the sexual sides, I feel the mental disconnect to my genitals many users report, as well as much lowered sexual desire. I also have symptoms of “hard flaccid”.

The mental sides are arguably worse. I feel lightheaded and disconnected from my surroundings and have trouble tracking motion. I feel emotionally numb, few things give me pleasure like they used to and on the flip side, I also don’t feel negative emotions to their full extent either.

There’s so much conflicting information on this forum, I’ve lurked for a while. So I’m a bit confused where to begin in terms of recovery. Diet, routine, supplements etc. Or is there nothing to do except wait and pray for a natural recovery?

If you have taken the time to read this, I really appreciate it. I wish you all the best. It’s unfortunate to be a member here but it is what it is.

[LazarusRy]

Hello mate, thanks for posting your story. Unfortunately a too familiar picture of sides being reported. Looking back most of my symptoms developed whilst on fin though I did take it on and off for years. My advice would be to avoid looking for quick fixes/solutions. Generally time is the best healer for those who recover. I wasnt aware of Pfs and tried all of the stuff mentioned on here over the years to try to stem/improve things but only brief restbite occurred. I also expect some of it worsened my situation. I’m aware of a few who have got better with time alone. Stay strong fight the urge to dabble in supps etc. The best advice would be to do things u enjoy, distract the Pfs mind by picking up new hobbies, tax the brain with new challenges go for walks take in the scenery, avoid stress, surround yourself with passive people. Do gentle exercise, be curious of the symptoms don’t fight them, try to accept Pfs, mindfulness and meditation. Look for different ways to feel reward eg volunteer work, avoid 5ar foods . All of these things have helped me. Time is the key. Good luck and above all believe you will get better, the mind is very powerful.

[Road]

Hey man, thanks for the reply. I will try to apply this advice the best I can.

[shivanshu]

I was on Accutane for 5ish months because of really bad acne that I had for past 7 years and had some really bad side effects like joint pain, back pain, dry eyes, eczema, pancreatitis, brain fog, emotional numbness(couldn’t enjoy things that I used to), suicidal thoughts.

I used to exercise a lot and I think muscle pain symptoms might have shown themselves in first month itself, but I failed to notice because of my exercise routine. And in first week of 5th month I noticed I had I was very fatigued during exercise and started having back pain and injured my hamstring and calf muscles. Also I was showing symptoms of pancreatitis.

First thing I did was go cold turkey and visit doctor for pancreatitis.
I told him what symptoms i was observing and he said I was being paranoid and need to visit psychiatrist. So I took my pancreatitis medicines and never went to him again. I then got my blood work done after six months of going cold turkey.

I had vitamin D3 deficiency, Iron deficiency and B12 deficiency. High sugar levels close to pre diabetic, new allergies to so many foods

So I started supplementing D3, B12, zinc, Iron and fish oil till I got them back on level. It helped me quite a lot.

I definitely have some severe spinal damage as I am seeing that my right side of body has pain. I am going to visit orthopaedic to get examined and get x-rays/MRI done

I will also get my blood work done now
To check whether my body becomes deficit of these vitamins when I stop supplementing. If so why?

Will visit this week probably.

I know how it feels not getting better for a long time and new problems popping up. Not being able to enjoy life like you used to. It’s been almost 2 years for me and I know how difficult it was for me to maintain mental sanity. I kept going to gym even when I had no strength and motivation to do so and then eventually quit after 6-7 months. Then only did mild exercises.tried yoga.but my muscle stiffness has not improved particularly my lower back and legs.

I really despise that mo********r who put me on Accutane without telling me about its side effects.

But either way I am going to fix myself whatever way I can. I do get depressed and get suicidal thoughts but my logical thinking still helps me steer back to right side during such times. I keep questioning myself what I want for myself and wasting myself is not one of them. Working is really hard as well. I am an RTL design engineer which requires a lot of concentration.

Please let me know what things worked for you
Like diet, supplements etc. Keep in mind it takes time and patience for these to work so don’t rush things

I know it’s difficult when you are fighting this alone.

[shivanshu]

I have an update regarding my blood reports
WBC count is low.
Signs of mild neutropenia
Vitamin D3 levels have dropped to 30 ng/ml(borderline insufficiency)
Total IgA: not available yet
I also have results from stool test and other blood tests that were perfomed
Stool test is also concerning.

These new doctors weren’t able to figure out what’s wrong with me either but they are serious and think that I might have developed some autoimmune disease, So they want to run few more blood tests.
Honestly I have been thinking the same for a long time just that I can’t put my finger on what it exactly is.

[Road]

Hey,

I don’t really use this forum much anymore, but I just logged in after a long time and saw you had replied to this post.

As little faith as I have in doctors nowadays, your post has got me thinking that I wouldn’t be a bad idea for me to do a little blood work and check for any deficiencies, so I appreciate you sharing your experience.

As for your symptoms, I can relate to many such as the joint pain, dry eyes, brain fog, and especially the emotional numbness. But I’m happy to say the brain fog and emotional numbness have actually improved since my first post here.

You asked what things worked for me and this might be extremely controversial to say on this forum, but the cd nuts protocol has been the only thing that’s been helping me. I was not making any progress whatsover until I started it. I know this is just anecdotal and not backed by studies, so take what I am saying with a grain of salt. Also I understand many have been so physically damaged by propecia / accutane that doing the exercise part of the protocol isn’t an option. I was fortunate enough to not have severe physical problems, so I can exercise. If you are able to do it, I recommend exercising again, it’s huge.

I’ve been over on a different forum where I much prefer the attitudes and approaches to dealing with pfs. I probably won’t log back here for a while but I wanted to wish you well. Stay strong.

[shivanshu]

I got fed up with doctors that i was visiting before. So went to a different hospital there also they performed a ton of tests without providing any solid diagnosis and simply prescribing multivitamins/minerals based on blood work. I have been supplementing on vitamin b complex, D3, D2, C, omega 3. And getting blood work done every month or so. When b12 levels increase too much i have trouble sleeping. And i adjust my supplements accordingly. Be careful about D3. I feel nauseated when it goes high.
I am able to workout again. I still do have back pain. But that apparently because I also have amblyopia which was diagnosed late(12yo). And my right side is more dominant which caused poor posture overtime but muscle weakness induced by isotretinoin just made it worse. So i am doing physiotherapy as well. And tbh it’s best that I have felt post isotretinoin. I also got my urine tested. I have slightly higher albumin to protein ratio. Which is not not concerning according to urologist who checked my reports

Also my WBC count has improved a bit. Last time I got tested my serum ferritin was also in normal range.

[shivanshu]

As for eye dryness. It has gotten a lot better but I have to maintain a solid sleep regime. I sleep right after dinner.(i finish my workout around 7PM and have my dinner by 8PM and get to bed. It works. Or it could be just because of maintaining all those vitamin/mineral levels as well.

Also my MRI showed swollen lymph nodes(that was like 5-6 months back i believe). But again doctors didn’t give a solid diagnosis. I don’t have any recent MRI/X-RAY/Ultrasound

[Road]

Update:

Hi all,

Back when times were rough and I was reading this forum a lot, I would look at old threads by people, who had since not updated in years, and wonder what happened to them, if they ever got better. So I wanted to come back and make sure my own thread reflects how I’m actually doing now.

Well: I’m doing a lot better, in all regards. Mentally and sexually I went from 20% to around 70%. And I feel like I can still improve.

I assure you, my PFS was severe. Beyond words.

I’m not qualified to prescribe a protocol or give any medical advice. But I can of course vouch for a healthy paleo-based lifestyle.

I just wanted to provide some hope, and wish you all the best. The beginning of my thread was quite a depressing read and I didn’t want it to end like that. God bless.

edit: typo

[Ultra]

Thank you for sharing this. I’m glad, you’re improving and 70% sounds quite solid. I wish you full recovery. I think, many of us need inspiring examples to keep it going. I also do quite frequent updates in my topic, but unfortunately I still don’t have much positive results.

How long did it take for you to notice significant improvement? And have you observed any recoveries connected to using any particular supplements or protocols?

[Road]

Thank you bro.

I first got the really noticeable pfs symptoms in december 2020, and did not start feeling significantly better until around July 2022.

In terms of supplements and protocols, I recommend taking a look at Daytona’s profile if you haven’t already, he recovered from Accutane. I’ve basically just been doing what he wrote in his posts.

For supplements, I agree with Daytona’s philisophy of less is more. I think too many people (understandably) try to look for that silver bullet supplement program that’s going to get them recovered, but there’s no such thing IMO. The dysfunction in our bodies is clearly far more complex than a deficiency a supplement could fix. I do take vitamin D though, and magnesium for sleep.

I believe at this time, the most reasonable approach is improving your health “naturally”, from as many different angles as possible. So stuff like lifting, sprinting, getting sun, eating strict paleo (and some carbs like rice and potatoes after lifting). And I personally dabble in some more esoteric stuff like cold water exposure and meditation. All this stuff has no severe side effects for most, and if we want the best shot at recovery I think we should try to put the body in a state where it could potentially “heal itself”, without throwing more supplements and drugs at it, where it could just trigger more systemic imbalances and compensatory mechanisms.

I’m not saying a healthy lifestyle is the official cure for PFS, but it seems like the safest approach so far, the one that is most consistently correlated with improved people, and the one I can recommend to people with peace of mind.

It’s easier said than done of course, there are plenty of days I had massive doubts and lack of motivation. But I kept going back to it no matter what, and now that I have noticeably improved, it’s a lot easier to stay disciplined.

Cheers.

[Ultra]

Thanks for such a detalied reply. I did communicate with Daytona and we discussed our experiences and found many similarities. I’m still trying to follow some of his advice. And I’m going to improve my lifestyle even more in the nearest future. But unfortunately I’m still stuck around my baseline and haven’t seen any positive changes for many months.

I do agree a healthy lifestyle is a must in our situation though. And I intend to do my best in working on it.

[Road]

No problem mate and best of luck. It can be tough to, but keep your head up, it’s definitely not unheard of to have many months of no progress before improvements then occur. Was the case for me.

[gomesemog]

Hey bro, happy for you really, could you log how is your daily habits like more or less?

Also, did it got rid from emotional blunting and joint pain? TIA

[Road]

I do not experience joint pain any more but I’m not sure what I can credit that to. I do take MSM and hylauronic acid which I forgot to mention, that might have something to do with this improvement. Maybe I should try quitting those supplements and see what happens, if the joint pain returns.

As for emotional blunting it has gotten way better, I’m at around 70% now in that department, which sure beats the zombie I used to be.

My typical day is weight training or HIIT sprinting in the morning, then cold shower, eating paleo throughout the day, (and “clean” carbs after around 5pm), wim hoff breathing exercises in the morning and before bed, 30 minutes of sun exposure if possible. If I don’t get sun I take vitamin D. I also take magnesium an hour or so before bed, really seems to improve my sleep.

This may seem like a lot but it becomes routine after a while and it doesn’t even feel like you’re on a “protocol”.

Hope that helps.

[gomesemog]

That’s nice! Did you also have any type of Post Exertion Malaise (like feeling like dog shit after exercising, mainly strenuous ones)?

And what do you think is the pathophysiology behind PFS, I mean, any idea on what caused it, at least in ur case?

[Road]

I don’t usually get post exertion malaise. A few times after sprinting I’ve felt a bit faint but I could have just been dehydrated or something.

I think my case was caused by finasteride, since I felt fine for like 7-8 months after concluding accutane and the only drug I was taking at the time everything went south was finasteride. But who knows. Accutane certainly didn’t help, that’s for sure.

As for the pathophysiology behind pfs, I have no idea. I don’t want to contribute to the cesspool of broscience on this subject, and I think the PFS network’s goal of getting this condition properly scientifically understood and treated is the way to go. But I figured while we wait for progress in that department, I might as well try my best to improve my health safely and naturally, through simple common sense lifestyle habits. And that’s benefitted me suprisingly dramatically.

Sorry I know it’s not that sexy of an answer but I actually try to think very little of PFS, and simply do. I am prone to overthinking so I have to combat it by keeping myself busy with these activities I mentioned in my previous answer.

The fact that many real people with pfs all over the internet have improved or even recovered through a healthy lifestyle is what gives me hope and allowed me to get to where I am. People may say that these folks would have recovered naturally regardless of their lifestyle habits, (and maybe they are right!) Nonetheless, I’m going to stay on the safe side and assume that is not the case.