Thoughts on the mechanism of Post-Drug Syndrome

General Discussion
#1

Note: I am not stating that the following is true, this is only a theory. Unfortunately I don’t have the scientific vocabulary to describe it perfectly.

The body is deprived of a specific endogenous substance. In PFS, PSSD, PAS and the other syndromes people have reported on this website, this substance would be DHT or testosterone (androgens in general). However the same mechanism causing these syndromes may also be the one causing permanent side effects after taking antipsychotics, by depriving the body of dopamine.

The system which is responsible for creating a response to a substance (receptors and signaling system) may be dependent on the presence of the substance itself. So when an androgen binds to the AR, one of the responses created is to express AR itself, along with the signaling system. When androgens are (almost) completely depleted, receptors and the signaling system will stop being expressed. And this may lead to a complete epigenetic shutdown of receptors and the signaling system. In an attempt to compensate for the silenced signaling system, the body will overexpress AR to an extreme degree. This will paradoxically result in permanent silencing of the androgen signal because overexpressed receptors will not induce any response.

Taking exogenous androgens is the first treatment that comes to mind, however this will not work due to overexpressed AR. In fact it may make the symptoms even worse because the androgen signal will become even weaker. One may reason that exogenous androgens will work by causing downregulation of AR, however this will not occur because exogenous androgens will not induce a stronger androgen signal. Therefore the body will have no reason to downregulate AR.

Many have reported improvement after taking antiandrogenic substances. The improvement is due to either lower androgen levels, which allow the receptors to create a stronger response, or due to downregulation of AR, which will also allow a stronger androgen response. There have been rumours of mice with PSSD induced at a young age being cured by SSRI.

The cure for these syndromes may in fact be a drug which allows you to precisely control the inhibition of the previously depleted substance. So the inhibition must be dose-dependent. This will allow you to inhibit androgens so that the overexpressed receptors can create a response again. If you take it for long enough then the signaling system will hopefully be reactivated. Obviously it is very important to not inhibit androgens too much as otherwise the symptoms may become even worse. And you need to taper off very slowly so that the return of androgens does not overwhelm the body and cause more silencing. I think finasteride is the worst substance to use for this because its 5AR inhibition related to dosage is not linear at all.

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#2

You may have a point when I exercised I felt much worse like the increase in hormones further increased androgen silencing that lead me to then get sexual problems 8 months later. Lowering the hormones would surely resensitise the receptors? But then why do people badly react to 5 alpha inhibitors

#3

Where did you hear the rumors about the mice?

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#4

I think the antiandrogenic effect is too strong

#5

On PSSD forum. I can send the link if you want

#6

Please send the link.

#7

http://www.pssdforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1755&view=unread

It’s the comment by Ghost.

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#8

Theory: the only possible solution is direct downregulation of AR.

This will allow androgen signaling again.

Increasing androgens won’t work as I mentioned in the first post. Decreasing might not work either, in fact it could lead to even more AR upregulation. So I think the only solution is to downregulate AR. However I don’t know of any substance which can reliably downregulate AR dose-dependently.

#9

0.2mg of finasteride followed by 1 month of epristeride at low dose if this doesn’t work then I give up

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#10

Hey. Most people reported hypersexuality/hyperemotional before PSSD, I think with PFS too right? I was thinking. What if we already had overexpression of AR and maybe other things, but with still a good signalling, causing for example hypersexuality for us. But the taking of such substances as finasteride/SSRI tipped our already overexpressed AR easily over the scale, and that made us genetically predisposed to this shit.

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#11

Also what I explained above could be the reason why older man don’t get this shit so often. They probably have a lower expression of AR anyway, and thus are less easily tipped over the scale.

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#12

Yes it all adds up. I wouldn’t call our previous AR expression overexpressed, simply above average, which gave us above average libido etc. And yes the fact that we already had a high AR density may have meant that it was easier for the density to exceed the Goldilocks Zone where receptors are able to transmit a signal.

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#13

Yeah i called it overexpressed, but as u said, above average. Well I know i did nofap at the time, gymming, both things known to cause a higher AR expression.

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#14

Shouldnt you be careful with fin 0,2 mg? According to studies if I remember it blocks dht nearly the same like full dose. Here it is

Here is it. Page 14

One pill similar dose sended Anxolotl to pfs.
I’m concerned when I read about your plans even with episteride

#15

That’s the whole point to undo the changes that have been made and unsilence the receptors taking 0.2 is enough to reboot the system. Everyone seems concerned and of course there is risk but when your in my state there’s very little options this has been tried and tested and has worked as proof from the article above it has also been discussed extensively on here before so the concept is nothing new. We can go into all the scientific data, studies etc but at the end of the day will they cure us maybe in another 20 years when I’m in a wheelchair feeding out of a tube with the cognitive ability of a pineapple because right now that’s were I’m headed.

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#16

I support your approach. We are all scared of drugs, I know, anyway, many of us are too much occupied with theories and possibly negative side effects while trying to fix this. I guess for every possible solution we can find an antiargument. Use vitamin C and dont use vitamin C beacuse, use Zinc and dont use it… Yeah, we can get worse but we cant get better without trying and experimenting. We cant find a way out. Most of sucess stories (fake or not) are from people trying things (even very rhisky). That’s why Im currently doing FMT. After 3 months of FMT ill experiment with reinstating low dose ssri. I know I can do more damage but Im absolutely not satisfied with what I have.
So, good luck man and I hope well find the way out.

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#17

Hi @Papasmurf, did you start with your trial of Finasteride / episteride yet? I am really curious.

#18

Not yet I’m currently exploring with other 5ar inhibitors to see how I feel and to put my theory to test.

Currently taking
zinc
green tea
soy
This is obviously a novel approach but hopefully it’ll give me a better insight to the mechanisms at play here sometimes we have to be our own guinea pigs especially seeing that men haven’t recovered in 10 or 20 years that’s like jail time in solitary confinement, fuck that!

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#19

In what form are you taking soy? @Papasmurf

#20

Straight from the bottle soy sauce mixed with green tea can’t really taste it also using some curcumin.