The story of way

#1

I’m 23 years old…

[From June 2003 to December 2003]
I take finasteride 1 mg per day for hairloss. During this period i start suffering of an hard loss of libido and erectile disfuncion.

[december 2003]
I decide to stop finasteride. All sexual side effects get better. At december 2003 my situation is:
i have not the typical libido of a 19 years old, erection are not simply as before finasteride but it is not a serius problem… i am only a bit numb about sex. This is one of the most important characteristic of my problems, because this situation is slowly and continually degenerated dragging me today in a state of complete disinterest in sex and impotence (people who are recovering from finasteride sides usually get better with the passage of time…i got worste!)

[From january 2004 to June 2006]
As i wrote, my situation was not so serious and so in this period i haven’t seen any doctor. However i was noticing that things was getting slowly worst…

[July 2006 ]
I start to see doctors (first urologists, and next endocrinologists). I do testicular ultrasound, semen exams, urography: nothing strange is found. I also start doing a lot of blood tests, here are the firsts:

Prolactin 12.83 ng/mL -------- range of the laboratory (4.10 – 18.40)
Testosterone 3.28 ng/mL ------ range 2.84 – 7.99

[Semptember 2006]
An urologist prescribe me a testosterone replacement therapy with testogel 5 g a day. Unfortunately i’ve not the blood test of this period, but the results is that i felt no sexual improvements, nothing change.

[January 2007]
I try the broccoli treatment (prostatitis.org/broccaction.html). During the first two days on the treatment I have a Complete Recovery from all my problems (i can obtain an erection in only 10 seconds just thinking to something sexy and i can obtain a new erection only few minutes after the first orgasm). Since the 3rd day benefits slowly disappeared and broccoli treatmente became inefficent. These 2 days will be the only 2 days of complete recovery in all my story.

[Febbruary 2007]
I try DIM supplements (conteined in broccoli) but nothing change. Assuming an adrenal fatigue problem i also try l-Tyrosine l-Phenylalanine… with no improvements.

[March 2007:]
New blood tests:
Testosterone: 2,84 ng/ml ----------> range of th laboratory(2,41 - 8,27)
LH: 3,37 mU.I./ml ----------------> range (2,0 - 12 )
FSH: 3,43 mU.I./ml ----------------> range (1,7 - 12)
Cortisol: 243,8 ng/ml ---------------> range (50 - 250)
E2: 65,12 pg/ml ---------------> in a men must be <62> in a men must be <46>(5,6 – 40)
Cortisol level is high, so i do a dexamethasone suppression test, but my cortisol decreases correctly.

[June 2007] New blood tests:
FT4: 1,11 ng/dl --------------------- (0,70 - 1,70)
TSH: 1,89 mcUl/ml ------------------(0,25 - 5,00)
Cortisol: 260 ng/ml -----------------(50 - 250)
ACTH: 50,1 pg/ml -------------------(< 46)
Testosterone: 4,03 ng/ml--------------(2,41 - 8,27)

[July 2007]
I do a GNRH TEST, nothing strange is found (LH and FSH increase correctly).

[August 2007] New blood tests:
E2: 13.42 pg/mL -------- range (11.00 – 43.90)
Testosterone 2.96 ng/mL ------ range (2.84 – 7.99)

[October 2007]
My testosterone is still low, so another endo prescribes me a new teraphy (duration 3 month): 250 ml of Testoviron a month (by injection) + 10 mg of Nolvadex (tamoxifene) per day: during the teraphy i notice al lot of acne on my face and a big increase of energy and powerfull, but nothing change about sexual problems… not even a little increase in libido…nothing. Here are my exams 3 days after the last injection of testosterone:
E2: 68 pg/mL ------------------------------------------Range of the lab:(12 - 41)
Testosterone: 17,89 ng/mL --------------------------------(2.80 - 8)
Free Testosterone: 50.66 pg/mL -------------------------(8.69 - 54.69)
PSA: 1,57 ng/mL -----------------------------------------------(0 - 4)

Here my exams at the end of the therapy:
Testosterone: 3.67 ng/mL --------------- (range 2.80 – 8)
Free Testosterone: 14.95 pg/mL ---------(range 8.69 – 54.69)
E2: 27 pg/mL ------------------------------(range 12 – 41)

Finally, the exams a month after the end of the therapy:
Testosterone: 3.42 ng/mL --------------- (range 2.80 – 8)
Free Testosterone: 9.77 pg/mL ---------(range 8.69 – 54.69)
E2: 22 pg/mL ------------------------------(range 12 – 41)
aldosterone 188.1 pg/mL (range 70.0 - 350.0)

[15 March 2008]
Reading the recovery protocol of an user on the forum propeciahelp.com i start taking sustain alpha (store.anabolicminds.com/product/get-diesel/diesel-test-hardcore-120-tabs.html) in order to raise Testosterone production, results: after 10 day on this products my face is completely full of acne, i notice increased testicular size (especially the first days) but no sexuals improvements, no change in libido, it is the same situation of trt + nolvadex therapy: acne, energy, very high testo but no change in libido or quality of the erection.

[31 March 2008] New blood test:
Free Testosterone: 9.90 pg/mL -----------------------------(8.69 - 54.69)
Diidrotestosterone (dht) 967 pg/mL -----------------------(155 - 533)
ACTH 42 pg/mL ---------------------------------------------------------(9 - 52)
Estrone 133 pMoli/L -------------------------------------------------- (37 - 370)
Glucose: 95 mg/dL -------------------- Range: (60 - 105)
cholesterol: 210 mg mg/dL --------------(125 - 200)
Albumin: 45.6 g/L --------------------- (35 - 50)
AST: 23 U/L ----------------------------(5 - 41)
ALT: 34 U/L ----------------------------(6 - 55)
Estradiol: 21 pg/mL -------------------(12 - 41)
FSH: 2.4 mU/mL -------------------------(1.4 - 18.1)
LH: 3.1 mU/mL -------------------------(1.7 - 8.6)
Total Testosterone: 2.67 ng/mL ---------(2.80 - 8.00)
SHBG: 22 nmoli/L -----------------------(13 - 71)
DHEAS: 2680 ng/mL ----------------------(800 - 5600)
Progesterone: 1.30 ng/mL ---------------(0.28 - 1.22)
Prolactin: 8.8 ng/mL ------------------(2.1 - 17.7)
PSA: 1.16 ng/mL ------------------------(0.0 - 4.0)
FT4: 0.95 ng/dL ------------------------(0.70 - 1.70)
TSH: 3.06 uU/mL ------------------------(0.25 - 5.00)
Cortisol 192 ng/mL --------------------(50 - 260)

[12 June 2008] New blood test:
Cholesterol: 222 mg/dL --------------(125 - 200)
Estradiol: 26 pg/mL -------------------(12 - 41)
FSH: 2.3 mU/mL -------------------------(1.4 - 18.1)
LH: 2.6 mU/mL -------------------------(1.7 - 8.6)
Testosterone: 2.54 ng/mL ---------------(2.80 - 8.00)
Free Testosterone: 8.1 pg/mL -----------------------------(8.69 - 54.69)

Progesterone: 1.20 ng/mL ---------------(0.28 - 1.22)
Prolactin: 7.6 ng/mL ------------------(2.1 - 17.7)
Cortisol 201 ng/mL --------------------(50 - 260)
Diidrotestosterone (dht) 261 pg/mL -----------------------(155 - 533)
ACTH 21 pg/mL ---------------------------------------------------------(9 - 52)

[26 June 2008] New blood test
Cholesterol: 196 mg/dL --------------(125 - 200)
Testosterone: 3.11 ng/mL ---------------(2.80 - 8.00)
Free Testosterone: 7.28 pg/mL -----------------------------(8.69 - 54.69)

[july 2008]
Magnetic Resonance at the brain: no problems at the hypothalamus and the pituitary

[22 july 2008]
Start therapy with wellbutrin 150 mg a day…

[December 2008]
I quit the wellbutrin therapy without significant results. the only important thing is that at the day number 10th and 11th of the therapy i experienced a completely recovery. after that two days i lost all the improvements.

[January 2010]
Started Arimidex 0.5 ml, twice a week. Ruduced the dose to 0,25ml and then suspended due to testicle shrinkage after 3 weeks.

[January 2011]
I started supplementing with:

  • Multivitaminic
  • Vitamin D3 (4000 IU daily)
  • Potassium
  • Tribulus
  • Maca

stopped after 3 days due to testicle shrinkage and feeling exhausted with no reason.

I update my story with my last full hormonal (march) panel and the situation today

[March 2011]
total Cholesterol: 190 mg/dl …(range < 200)
HDL Cholesterol: 51 mg/dl …(no risk if > 55, high risk if < 35)
LDL Cholesterol: 119 mg/dl …(range < 130)
glycemia: 101 mg/dl … (range 76.0 - 110.0)
AST: 22 LU/L … (range 4.0 - 37.0)
ALT: 19 LU/L … (range 4.0 - 41.0)
triglycerides: 101 mg/dl … (range 50.0 - 200.0)
Albumin: 4.8 g/dl …(range 3.40 - 4.80)
FT3: 3.24 pg/ml …(range 2.00 - 4.40)
FT4: 1.08 ng/dl …(range 0.93 - 1.70)
TSH: 1.68 MicroU/ml …(range 0.27 - 4.20)
Prolactin: 10.39 ng/ml …(range 4.04 - 15.20)
ACTH: 35 pg/mL …(range 9 - 52)
FSH: 2.59 mU/ml …(range 1.49 - 12.40)
LH: 2.61 mU/ml …(range 1.71 - 8.59)
Beta Estradiol: 47.27 pg/ml …(range 11.00 - 43.90)
Progesterone: 0.61 ng/ml …(range 0.02 - 1.70)
Total Testo: 3.28 ng/ml …(range 2.49 - 8.39)
Free Testo: 7.5 pg/mL …(range 8.69 - 54.69)
DHT: 423 pg/mL …(155 - 533)
Estrone: 367 pMol/L …(range not defined)
S-DHEAS: 2490 ng/mL …(range: 800 - 5600)
prostate specific antigen: 1.31 ng/ml …(range: 0.0 - 4.4)
IGF Binding Protein: 4.8 ug/mL …(range: 3.5 - 7.6)
Cortisol: 25.18 ng/dl …(range morning: 6.2 - 19.4
range afternoon:2.3 - 11.9)

[August 2011]
Maybe due to constant and heavy exercise, libido and ED improved a bit. I got a stable girlfriend and i gradually quit cialis. I am able to have good sex without it, erection are between 85% and 100% (very rarely 100%). I am still suffering of premature ejaculation: first minutes of sex are a mess, i constantly feel the urge to come, i need to slow down the rhythm or stop, wait some second and then restart again. After that i feel quite ok and i am able to last enough (up to 30-40 min). Also after ejaculation i recover quite fast and in half an hour i am able to restart again (even if sometimes i feel pain). By the way orgasms are not so strong. Sperm squirt sometimes are strong, sometimes no.

Brain-penis connexion is very good. Erection can start immediately after touching-thinking about a woman (even if not a full erection)

Morning erection not present or very light. Masturbation is hard and it requires concentration: erections on masturbation are between 80% and 95%, orgasm very light.

Penis most of the times looks good and bigger, it still shrink after exercise or after caffeine or on sleep deprivation. Sensitivity still not ok, maybe 70%-80%: e.g. i am unable to reach an orgasm on oral sex, i need stronger stimulations (if i want to come on oral sex i have to concentrate and stimulate the prostate with my arse muscles). I still get tired very easily and i need to sleep a lot to feel rested, but i managed to survive without no caffeine at all.

One of the main issues keeps being the abdominal fat, it apparently keeps increasing despite a extremely healthy life style and regular and intense exercise. I am quite desperate about that. All the rest of my body looks thin with muscles. Planning to go on royal jelly soon.

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#2

250ml testo a month? I’m guessing you will feel good first and like sh*t by week 3 and 4 :confused:

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#3

no no, as i wrote, i didn’t fell any change…only a lot of acne, more energy, more contentiousness… but i didn’t fell any change in libido or quality of erections…
i don’t know why…

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#4

What Onni is saying is that taking 250mg of Testosterone 1x per month is simply not enough, as by week 3 and 4 your T levels would be getting low again as the effects of the shot wear off… it’s too bad your endo didn’t prescribe you to take it on a more consistent schedule (ie, once every 10 days at smaller dosage) so your T levels would have remained fairly constant… who knows, perhaps that would have made a difference.

Irregardless the fact you had no results even after taking the initial shot of 250mg, and based on your bloodwork while on T, seems to point to the fact that even high T levels did not correct the issue for you… which is unfortunate.

Seems you are in the same boat as the user “awor”.

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#5

thanks mew. yes, 250mg of Testo 1x per month is not enough… we have discussed about this in a old topic and also hypo was very skeptical about this dosage…

I’m worry about the fact that both testo and nolvadex didn’t anything for me… now i don’t have any idea of what i should try… i’m disoriented…

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#6

Well you could always find an endo to try prescribing T on a more consistent schedule and see if that helps.

Or you could try being prescribed both T and DHT (ie Proviron) and see if that helps.

Or you could try and get bloodwork to check for 5AR activity as noted here: propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=761

… and see if you can get genital skin fibroblast culture tested to check for 5AR activity, since genital skin is full of 5AR-II enzyme.

… and testing for these additional hormones/ratios that Finasteride impacts, to see if there is a major imbalance: propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1079 (look for my post with the image attached, halfway down)

Or you could try and get genetic analysis of the androgen receptor and/or 5AR-II enzyme to check for mutation which is preventing T/DHT from being able to “function” correctly.

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#7

If I were you, I’d try 250ml/two weeks for a e.g. six months to see what happens.

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#8

thanks mew, yes… now i’ll try to obtain a prescription for a dht test and i’ll start to search where i can test the 5AR activity…
about my dht i can say you that when i was on trt my hair loss increased, so for me is true the connection: “more testosterone —> more DHT”

thanks Onni, but if i do 6 months on 250ml of Testo/2week, at the end of the 6 months my endogenous production of testosterone will be completely compromised…

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#9

i’ve edited my story adding the last exams… i think there are some interesting things…
i would like to comment results with you

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#10

.

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#11

ehi solonjk, sorry for the late reply

i’ve took nolvadex for 3 month at 10mg per day… during this period i’ve noticed no improvements and no side effects… nothing! i haven’t checked lh/fsh after nolva…

DIM supplements didn’t help me in any way…

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#12

i would like to try a “post cycle therapy” based on nolvadex: 4 weeks, first 2 weeks at 40mg a day, and the other weeks at 20 mg and 10 mg. in my first post I’ve edited my last blood test…

what do you think?

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#13

updated my story with my last blood test, MRI and the new therapy…

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#14

Why are you taking Wellbutrin? Who prescribed it to you? Dosage, schedule?

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#15

My psychiatrist prescribed it; we are trying to boost the neurotransmitter (both dopamine, serotonine and noradrenaline) and re-sensitize the receptors. we are going to start with 150 mg a day in the first month and then 300 mg a day in the other 5 months (it’s a semester protocol)

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#16

So you’ve found a psychiatrist who believed your case? How did you get to this point? Last I recall you were going to pursue other routes with PCT etc.

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#17

yes, she believes in my case and she studying with me some possible solutions. She is also talking about my problem to others doctors; she has also visited this site and read some member stories in order to find something in common with other users. She said that every story is a separated story and about some of the story in the mental section she said that some of them correspond perfectly to some classic mental pathology (whole documented in literature)… about the schema with all the symptom (the ones that every user should compile before start writing) she said that there are too much symptoms and it’s easy make confusion about primary symptoms and derived symptoms., so she didn’t find it useful. We have observed that my hormones aren’t good but not so bad, moreover the fact that on trt (with very high levels of testo and free testo) i wasn’t feeling anything induced us to think that the root of the problem is somewhere else… maybe a neurological disturb that determine some anomalies in my hormones (she said that this is common)…

she also said that when this case will be solved she’ll write an article about that post-finasteride black-out

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#18

This is great news, thanks for the update.

If you have a chance to email her, I would recommend this thread:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1387

And also this study, so she can see what neurosteroids Finasteride impacted (page 3 for diagram):

propeciahelp.com/forum/download.php?id=145

Keep us posted man!

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#19

thanks for the links… i’ll send them to her…

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#20

do you feel any improvement with Wellbutrin?

how did you convince her? i’d like to go to other neurologist, but i don’t know what tell him. any advice?

thanks.

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