Thanks but I think a multi-faceted approach is best and there’s nothing to lose by trying. Studies could take years and yield nothing.
I agree that people can try to change their diets if they want. But it doesn’t seem likely that removing certain hot beverages from your diet will treat the systematic changes in gene expression across your cells, which Propecia may have induced. It’s also doubtful that removing Mars bars from your life can fix the alterations which may have been induced in androgen receptors.
I mean this respectfully, but surely the focus needs to remain on getting the studies done. Sure - they may yield nothing - but they could yield absolutely everything. Do you really believe that elite medical institutions like Harvard and Baylor would have taken on this work if there wasn’t some worth to be gained? Do you really think they don’t have a lot of things they could be doing with their time, besides undertaking cutting edge research into the problem which is blighting the lives of men on here?
I don’t understand why people think they can beat PFS through self-experimentation, when there are world-class doctors lined up to explore this problem for us. Any other approach is just a side-show distraction to the main course: the studies.
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No one is saying that PFS can be beaten by diet or self experimentation. People are saying that you can minimize the symptoms of the condition through diet. It seems to me that every person that has tried fasting has claimed a notable improvement in their symptoms. That alone is proof that diet can influence PFS symptoms. Attempting to minimize the impact of the condition on our lives while we wait for the studies to discover the actual underlying cause is only logical.
Exactly this.
Gelhead, you misrepresent me by suggesting that I think curing PFS comes down to a hot drink or a Mars bar. What I’m interested in is minimising other side effects, such as mental issues or physical pain. Whether lifestyle choices can help with libido issues is up for debate, but it can’t harm to try anyway.
Those of us who suffer PFS are obviously in quite a fragile state, and I do personally notice variations in how I feel on a day-to-day basis. It makes perfect sense then to think about factors that influence our wellbeing, such as diet, stress and exercise. That’s the point of this topic and I’d like to get back to it.
avoid caffeine.
there is a lot food with caffeine (coffee, chocolate, tea, guarana): see the list:
Coffee, brewed, espresso, restaurant-prepared
Caffeine: 21202mg
Coffee, brewed from grounds, prepared with tap water
Caffeine: 7999mg
Tea, brewed, prepared with distilled water [black tea]
Caffeine: 4000mg
Tea, brewed, prepared with tap water [black tea]
Caffeine: 4000mg
Carbonated beverage, low calorie, other than cola or pepper, with aspartame, contains caffeine [pop, soda, soft drink]
Caffeine: 3000mg
Coffee, instant, regular, powder
Caffeine: 2608mg
Coffee, instant, regular, prepared with water
Caffeine: 2600mg
Tea, instant, unsweetened, powder
Caffeine: 2336mg
Carbonated beverage, low calorie, cola or pepper-types, with sodium saccharin, contains caffeine [pop, soda, soft drink]
Caffeine: 2200mg
Tea, instant, unsweetened, powder, prepared
Caffeine: 2200mg
Tea, ready-to-drink, unsweetened, WENDY’S, fast food, without ice
Caffeine: 1600mg
Coffee, instant, with chicory, prepared with water
Caffeine: 1400mg
Tea, instant, sweetened with sodium saccharin, lemon-flavored, powder
Caffeine: 1325mg
Carbonated beverage, low calorie, cola or pepper-type, with aspartame, contains caffeine [pop, soda, soft drink]
Caffeine: 1200mg
Energy drink, RED BULL, sugar free, with added caffeine, niacin, pantothenic acid, vitamins B6 and B12
Caffeine: 1200mg
Tea, instant, unsweetened, lemon-flavored, powder
Caffeine: 1198mg
Coffee, instant, with chicory, powder
Caffeine: 1176mg
Tea, instant, sweetened with sodium saccharin, lemon-flavored, prepared
Caffeine: 1100mg
Coffee, instant, regular, powder, half the caffeine
Caffeine: 898mg
Coffee and cocoa (mocha) powder, with whitener and low calorie sweetener
Caffeine: 370mg
Candies, dark chocolate coated coffee beans
Caffeine: 311mg
Candies, milk chocolate coated coffee beans
Caffeine: 291mg
Cocoa, dry powder, unsweetened
Caffeine: 202mg
Coffee, brewed from grounds, prepared with tap water, decaffeinated
Caffeine: 200mg
Coffee, brewed, espresso, restaurant-prepared, decaffeinated
Caffeine: 200mg
Tea, brewed, prepared with tap water, decaffeinated [black tea]
Caffeine: 200mg
Coffee, instant, with sugar, mocha-flavor, powder
Caffeine: 157mg
Coffee, instant, with sugar, cappuccino-flavor powder
Caffeine: 149mg
Energy drink, RED BULL, with added caffeine, niacin, pantothenic acid, vitamins B6 and B12
Caffeine: 133mg
Cocoa, dry powder, hi-fat or breakfast, plain
Caffeine: 132mg
Carbonated beverage, cola, with higher caffeine [pop, soda, soft drink]
Caffeine: 132mg
2
Coffee, instant, decaffeinated, powder
Caffeine: 109mg
Tea, instant, unsweetened, powder, decaffeinated
Caffeine: 107mg
Coffee, instant, with sugar, french-flavor, powder
Caffeine: 102mg
Coffee, instant, decaffeinated, powder, prepared with water
Caffeine: 100mg
Carbonated beverage, reduced sugar, cola, contains caffeine and sweeteners
Caffeine: 90mg
Carbonated beverage, lemon-lime soda, contains caffeine [pop, soft drink, white soda]
Caffeine: 73mg
Cocoa, dry powder, unsweetened, processed with alkali [Dutch cocoa]
Caffeine: 71mg
Tea, instant, sweetened with sugar, lemon-flavored, with added ascorbic acid, powder
Caffeine: 64mg
Cocoa, dry powder, hi-fat or breakfast, processed with alkali
Caffeine: 49mg
Carbonated beverage, pepper-type, contains caffeine [pop, soda, soft drink]
Caffeine: 49mg
Carbonated beverage, cola, contains caffeine [pop, soda, soft drink]
Caffeine: 43mg
Tea, instant, sweetened with sodium saccharin, lemon-flavored, powder, decaffeinated
Caffeine: 34mg
Baking chocolate, unsweetened, squares
Caffeine: 32mg
Candies, chocolate, dark, 60-69% cacao solids
Caffeine: 30mg
Beverage, instant breakfast powder, chocolate, sugar-free, not reconstituted
Caffeine: 29mg
Candies, chocolate, dark, 70-85% cacao solids
Caffeine: 27mg
Candies, sweet chocolate
Caffeine: 26mg
Candies, semisweet chocolate, made with butter
Caffeine: 26mg
Candies, semisweet chocolate
Caffeine: 26mg
the list
the more caffeine, more anxiety and poor sleep.
based on my experience, eliminate caffeine always helped me.
problem is that I really like coffee and chocolate.
also, drink a lot of water helps a lot.
Looks like we can all pretty much agree on caffeine and sugar. I don’t drink coffee/tea anyway, but I love chocolate 
You continue to miss the point. There are massive insights at stake with completing these studies - yet launching topics like this, about diet, whilst making statements like ‘Studies could take years and yield nothing’ - does nothing but give false hope to people. The implications of what you are saying are clear, though I’ll need to spell it out for you, since you seem incapable of seeing them for yourself: the studies may not find anything, so follow some web forum-based “protocol” for treatment.
The effect of what you are saying may tip people away from applying for the studies. Do you not understand what you are doing? Do you not have any idea at all? You may be tilting people away from participating in these university research studies. What kind of ridiculous arrogance do people on here possess, whereby they think they can beat this mess without the assistance of some world-leading doctors, experts in their fields.
What a mess.
You’re right, I’m not sure what I was thinking when I posted a topic about diet in the subforum titled ‘Natural Supplements, Diet & Exercise’.
As for the “ridiculous arrogance” you speak of, last week I had an hour long phone conversation with Chi who claims to have healed many side effects by changing up his diet, exercising, avoiding stress etc. He’s going to be featured in one of Adam’s podcasts soon, which I helped to arrange.
There’s absolutely no reason why people can’t work on their diet, so why not spend your time promoting the studies instead of unfairly taking your frustrations out here. I’ve done my bit for the clinical trials by signing up, creating a map of 1,000 PFS reports in relation to the study centres (bit.ly/1ouaYgi) and by encouraging people to sign up for the studies when/where appropriate. Claiming that I’m tilting people away from studies is nonsense and attacking every post that’s not about the studies is entirely unreasonable.
A little Coffee still helps me get going in the morning. My sleep is no worse off. My sleep is so fucked it couldn’t get much worse anyway.
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Avoid whole weat
Don’t waste your breath on him GELHEAD, you should know by now that he’s always right with his theories and if he’s not then he barks at you or squeeles to the mods
Just in the past few days I’ve read 3 separate threads where he has attacked people
He’s only interested in self credit and glorifying his own PFS symptoms that could quite possibly be solved through diet… Lol
The guy who texted me to say he’d rip my “fucking head off” claims I’m attacking people??
Since these text threats I’ve avoided you by deleting your mobile number and deleting you on Facebook. You, however, have continued to bait me by stalking my posts, including here and in another topic, where I ask for opinions about my blood tests and you reply telling me my PFS is “insignificant” and I should leave the forum:(viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9292)
I sent proof of these threats to Mew and he warned you already:
"Tiger’s, your swearing and rude comments are not appreciated. I have also seen the text threats you’ve made against the aforementioned member. Instead of being level-headed, it comes across as juvenile and immature. Give it a break, we all have better things to do with our time. "
This post is about DIET and it’s in the DIET subforum, so how about both you and Gelhead take your frustration elsewhere, because I’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.
Herein lies the problem for all PFS sufferers.
I spent a couple months with 0 caffeine/sugar. It didn’t make much difference. I have a level of neuropathy throughout my body. I find it hard to believe diet changes are going to fix this. I was rather fit and in good health before I took Fin. I had a pretty good diet to begin with. I believe diet can help with hormonal issues. I just got new blood work and my T is going back up and E2 is going back down. Yet I continue to have many symptoms of neurological/brain damage. I don’t discourage good diet but I have my doubts that its going to fix the extensive damage that’s been done in my case.
I never said it was diet alone.
Which brand enema you used chi?
How can you make massive blanket statements like this?
The best diet for PFS is the water fasting. Maybe juicy fast… Simply don’t eat anything for at least 2-3 weeks. The first 3-5 days may be difficult but I’m convinced that fasting has the ability to repair very complex problems in your body, although these effects may take a few days/weeks to happen after ending the water fast.
I’ve ended a 3,5 week long water fast about a month ago. A few weeks/months later I will repeat it. There is nothing I’ve tried in the previous years that is comparable to water fasting in effectiveness. At the same time its simple and cheap but depending on the kind of your work and lifestyle it may be hard to incorporate it (for example if you are a physical worker).
Of course it is also important to eat a healthy diet in general even if you are not a PFS victim. Eating just worthless calories and fast food makes even non-PFS people weak and sick. You simply get fat and ugly on crappy food and you age more quickly as a result. Unfortunately I don’t believe that a single “PFS diet” would do the job for everyone. The nutrition needs of a person depend a lot on the lifestyle. For example: On days when I do a heavy training I may consume 5-6000 kcalories but on normal days only 2-3000 kcalories do the job (and its not only about calories, its even more about nutrients and the composition of the food). Even if we proposed a “PFS diet” the amount and composition of food may not be correct for everyone and some of the recommendations may be unsuitable for some people (for example for religious reasons or vegetarianism…).
I think I eat pretty solid/clean/healthy stuff but some would simply get bored of my diet quickly especially because I don’t cook anything. Not because of PFS, I never cooked even before PFS. I’m the person who could live on a few favorite foods for life. 
But at least I did something that many people are lazy to do: I made an effort to put together a clean and well rounded diet for myself. Here are a few general advices:
- Don’t eat junk (ordered restaurant food, especially fast restaurant food).
- Avoid processed foods as much as possible. I myself avoid cooked foods too as I’m lazy to cook and I consider it as “processed food” anyway. I “cook” only boiled eggs and sometimes I make some simple foods like fried onions. OK, OK, sometimes I cook some more complex foods too once in several months…
- Don’t eat bakery. Practice proves it to be harmful and you can completely live without it. The only thing I eat with a small piece of bakery is cod liver in its own oil (as it is a very oily meal). If you are eating some less fatty food (like bacon or meat) then instead of the bakery you should eat some veggies raw or steamed with it.
- Regularly eat seeds (buy almonds, walnuts, sesame, …). I have a mixture of 10+ different seeds all the time and I eat some every day. This is a very good source of so many nutrients and they are available basically everywhere, and they are also delicious. If you get bored of it then a tablespoon of honey can still make a few pieces of seeds into a very good snack. (walnut+honey -> awesomeness, pumpkinseed+dried goji berries -> awesomeness).
- Eat a lot of veggies. I often eat carrots, kohlrabies and other stuff even for snack (raw alone) during work. Veggies are very good stuff to eat along with other protein/fat dense meals. Most veggies are easily digested with both acid/alkaline forming foods.
- Eat a few pieces of raw whole fruits daily but not too much as it can make you fat. Eat whole fruits and not their (sugary) juice that has the fibers removed. Fruit juice is very good if you want to get a lot of fat quickly. Despite this many think that fruit juice is so healthy. Without the fibers the sugar from the juice gets absorbed very quickly into your body. Besides this by juicing you can easily drink the (concentrated) sugar of so many pieces of fruit that you would be unable to eat without juicing (simply because of volume of the fruit flesh/fibers). Juicing fruits sucks. If you want juice, then juice veggies - you can of course add some fruits too when it comes to flavoring.
- I eat a lot of boiled eggs (3-5 pieces per serving as I love them) and I sometimes eat them with a small slice (~10dkg) of smoked red meat or bacon or some healthier stuff like fried fish or chicken/turkey. From fish and chicken/turkey I often eat much more than 10dkg. This isn’t really an advice but I wanted to point out that I’m not at all a vegetarian. Its not vegetarianism that will heal you from PFS. I’ve already tried that. And besides that if you overeat fruits a bit you can get more fat easily especially if you are physically inactive.
- My diet includes some daily supplements: multivitamins to counter the occasional imbalances in the diet, 20-30,000IU D3, 2 tblspoons of maca powder, 200mg Q10, … It is very easy to eat a diet that may look healthy but deficient in many ways. This is why these can come handy. And this is why is it important to eat several different things. For example eating just healthy looking veggies and fruits would probably make you deficient in many ways after some time depending on what kind of fruits and veggies you consume.
These are the main building blocks of my diet and it varies how much I eat daily from this and that (I eat instinctly as I desire the food) but the above things are always in my daily intake in some amount. Aside from those I eat a lot of other things moderately, for example:
- Dairy: mainly kefir and joghurt, cheese (I love smoked cheese with boiled eggs).
- Avoid sugars in general, even when it comes to simple things like mustard, catchup or whatever you can buy. If you need sugar then replace it with honey.
- Cod liver in its own oil (1-2 times a week, A and D vitamin bomb with omaga3)
- Lot of other tiny things I eat/drink rarely and when it comes to my mind.
- I allow myself to eat some junk (like fast food or pizza) 1-2 times a week.
- There is some sweet snack too at home: organic and raw honey, 70+% dark chocolate, organic 100% grape juice that hasn’t yet turned into wine (must), … (but I eat these quite moderately and these are much cleaner than most of the sweets you find on the shelves of shops).
In general try to get your food from clean sources. If you have a market around with local seasonal (maybe organic) veggies then buy that stuff there instead of going into a supermarket. Try to select products (mustard, …) that contain the least number of ingredients and the least number of artificial stuff (like coloring agents) - although opinions may vary on how much does this help. Sometimes you can create your own clean stuff (mustard, baking powder, …) easily by researching the internet. In case of some food sources (like in case of dairy) it can be very important to get it from clean organic sources to avoid for example estrogens.
With the diet changes your overall goal should be feeling better and allowing your body to (re)build itself as needed. Another very important factor is how active are you physically. Without trainings your health will quickly reach rock bottom. Alone eating healthy is nothing. In fact, in my opinion incorporating trainings, physical activities is much more important than the damm diet itself. There is a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between the lean you and the overweigh you, and in case of PFS the difference/gap may be even larger (considering that fat seemed to be a quite good estrogen factory in my case).
Reaching a better body composition and getting off the fat has many benefits:
- You feel and look better.
- Less fat results in less estrogens and less other kind of estrogen induced imbalances.
- If you have more muscle then and you are physically more active then you can eat MUCH-MUCH MORE without gaining fat.
- If you have more muscle then its much easier and fulfilling to do trainings.
- Doing physical activities also have a lot of regenerative powers and positive hormonal effects if done well.
To lose your fat do a water fast. In the first 2 weeks of the fast you can lose as much as 1kg of fat per day. To gain muscle you need a good diet and correctly/honestly doing your daily trainings. Losing fat with diet changes and training is much-much slower and more difficult. For me with PFS it seemed to be impossible. If I ate enough to feel energized enough to do a training then I ate too much so I gained fat. But anyway, before the water fast my stamina was so rock bottom that I couldn’t do more than 15-20 minutes of (not so) “intensive” training and I felt like crap after it.
Search for a site that exists for the purpose of calorie counting. Calorie counting itself is bullshit but if you log your consumed food then you can easily spot foods that are a lot of bad calories (for example high sugar) and most of these sites also indicate other nutrient content too for the foods (usually protein/carb/fat content). So don’t count calories but for gods sake, just make a log of what kind of crap you eat and this will help you to adjust your food intake. To improve your body composition (shed of fat) read about how to adjust your protein/carb/fat intake (search for fitness/bodybuilder sites about this topic). Even the protein/carb/fat content is something that lies a lot as there are different kinds of proteins, carbs and fats but taking a look at your summarized daily values can help a lot in spotting the worst parts of your crappy diet. While dropping the worst pieces of your diet using the calorie counter site you can also put together your favorite foods and food combinations. I recommend searching fitness sites for good recipes when it comes to cooking.
Unfortunately there are no magic pills and magic formulas and rules to follow when it comes to shedding fat and gaining muscle (and a better body composition).
- Try to use the best ingredients to possible in your food, eat less (processed) crap.
- More proteins and less carbs are generally better when it comes to the “less fat and more muscle” topic. Eat some of those proteins and most of the carbs around the day of time of your training.
- Never overeat. Eat a bit slower, this helps you eliminating hunger before stuffing yourself full physically. Physically filling your gut full is bad anyway.
- A few weeks are enough to find out how much you need from certain food combinations to feel energized and to avoid getting fat with your current lifestyle. If you are physically inactive then depending on your genes you will most likely be either fatty as a result of your food intake you will be always hungry/tired because of your low calorie intake (those lazy girls who try to lose weigh without any physical activity by torturing themselves with low calorie diets). 1-2 hours of daily physical activity can help your body to bear with more food intake well.
- If you eat different foods together then these foods can have complex interactions in your gut and the sum of their calories and the sum of their nutrient value may be a bit altered as a result of interactions. For example high fiber veggies slow down or prevent the digestion of carbs/nutrients coming from other foods consumed with the veggies. This can be good or bad in different scenarios (for example its good when sugars are absorbed more slowly but may be bad in case of some other nutrients). My point with this is that often trying to calculate the overall value of some foods is impossible, this one reason why calorie counting sucks hard. You will have to find out the hard way how you body works and how to balance out your diet with the amount of physical activities to be able to feel good and to have the body composition you want. Well, if you want to look like Schwarzenegger then you will of course have to follow a much more stricter diet and training plan… For me and most of you the goal is probably minimizing fat, and maybe to gain some extra muscle to be able to eat more and to be able to keep the fat off more easily. More muscle, easier trainings, faster metabolism, and lots of other benefits from these.
If it comes to diet, then there are so many junk sites and blogs out there… Previously I recommended searching fitness sites when it comes to food composition and recipes. And besides those I have a favorite site: whfoods.com
In my opinion the site is quite ugly and its menu is pretty badly organized, it can be quite hard to navigate. To easily find things on the site its better to write “whfoods” into google and then the google result immediately gives you the links to the main parts of the site:
whfoods.com/sitesearch.php
whfoods.com/foodstoc.php
whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php
whfoods.com/recipestoc.php
whfoods.com/foodadvisor.php
whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam … e&dbid=265
This site gives very good advices about eating in general and has a list of healthy foods with their description and nutrient content. You can also search the foods that contain a specific nutrient.
Again, a healthy diet is just a basic building block and don’t expect wonderful PFS recovery from it, especially if you are ruined and physically inactive. By eating healthy you are rather investing in your future. You become what you eat. Combine a healthy diet with water fasting periods to boost (or turn around) your recovery process. The big gun is the fasting, not the diet.
Physical activity is very important! For the reasons I mentioned above. If you are so ruined that you are unable to refresh your body withing 2-3 weeks to be able to perform at least 1 hour of correct training then you should definitely try a few weeks of water fasting. Among other things it removed my fat, multiplied my stamina and I regained my ability to gain muscle. With 3,5 weeks of water fasting I could remove about 15kg of fat and in the next month that followed I put on about 10kg muscle. Now my upper body looks like when I was 16-17 years old when I attended several different kinds of trainings at high school…
Some people think that going to the gym for an hour and just walking up and down there allows them to eat a big bunch of crap and sugary snack all day. Maybe these people go the to gym for their consciences’ sake but doing so is a very big waste of time. Going to the gym and doing some honest/correct training allows you to eat the multiple of the food (if it comes to the right food) and also some snack. In my opinion a good training must contain at least one shorter 5-10 minute period that is intense and make you sweat (along with some higher heart rate). I mean something like running at 12-14km/h for 10-15 minutes, or doing complex full body movements. If you sweat at least a bit then its probably enough and fine. I incorporate at least 2-3 of these short intense periods into my trainings. Many sources suggest that this is something that speeds up metabolism and has a very good calorie-afterburn effect for about half day. If you do such an exercise twice a day (for example in the morning and evening) then you are quite good as you help keeping your metabolism on a higher rate. In fact, doing exercises themselves burn surprisingly few calories (intensive running at 12-14km/h for 10 minutes is about 200kcals, 1 hour weightlifting is about 500kcals and 500kcal intake is just eating a bar of chocolate!!!). The afterburn and metabolism speed up is much more important, this is why you should focus on quality trainings and not just “walking up and down” style trainings! Repairing/growing your muscles after a heavy training is also something that can consume a lot of energy! Depending on the kind of the training you don’t even have to go the gym to reach some nice heart rates! You can put together a nice fitness training that you can do at home. With this you can spare time and effort that would be taken by going to the gym and then going home! If you are just starting with your trainings then don’t do it too vigorously in the first 1-2 weeks! Rump it up slowly! A few minutes of warming up before the training is very important. Stretching the muscles after the training is also very important if you don’t want to die the day that follows!
That’s it from me. I’ve played enough smartass here. In this post you can find some good directions and you can save a lot of time you would (or wouldn’t) spend on research but despite this you still have to invest significant time and effort to get the job done by tweaking your diet and overall lifestyle that makes your life/health better and speeds up the recovery of your body. My goal with this post was showing an example and to point out that there is no single diet/lifestyle that works for everyone and there are probably a lot of possible diets that would work for someone. When it comes to diet you have to experiment with yourself. The same is true for physical activity. Something works for you, something works for your friend, something for both or neither of you. Eat that damn food and check how it feels the next 3-4-5 hours then make your own conclusions… If you eat a big bunch of potatoes with a large piece of juicy meat and you feel like a dead zombie for the next 5 hours then its time to do your homework and search for the reasons with google, some food combinations are simply bad, that’s it. After eating your favorite foods regularly for 1-2 weeks you may be able to conclude how fat-generating is it for your body (with your current lifestyle and physical activity).