I have been browsing this site for a week now. I know I should post a member story first, but I’ll just give the basic details and my blood results here to start with.
Took Fin 1mg for 2 months (spread over 5-6 months) in 2007 when I was 27 yrs old. I am 29 now.
Have been off the drug for close to 3 years now
SUffering from the following sides:
Erectile Dysfunction
Loss of Morning / Spontaneous / Nocturnal Erections
Penile shrinkage, curving
Watery Ejaculate
Reduced Ejaculate
Went to a physican and had the following tests done:
I know there is Low testoterone right there. I have an Endo appointment coming up in 2 days. Any advice what more should I ask him - new tests, possible treatments.
I’ll post a detailed story sometime soon. Thanks!!
Near-Hypogonadal levels of Total and Free Testosterone, below range Vitamin D… clearly an issue here.
Since Vitamin D is a member of the Nuclear Receptor superfamily (as is the Androgen Receptor, which binds with Testosterone and DHT), it is interesting that both your Testosterone and Vitamin D results are both extremely low. Other members on this site have also had extremely low Testosterone and Vitamin D levels, which likely points to a common source of the problem (perhaps since they are both members of the Nuclear Receptor superfamily?).
I would recommend printing out the screenshots from below and discussing further with the endo.
To boost Testosterone, you can try natural supplements like Tribulus and Tongkat Ali, and weight training.
Potential treatments like Clomid, hCG, Tamoxifen to boost endogenous T production can be found in stickies in Drug Therapy section. If those fail, there is Testosterone Replacement Therapy but it is often for life and there are infertility issues unless you bank sperm beforehand or take hCG concurrently with it.
You clearly belong on this forum. Your Free T number looks very similar to mine. How is your overall energy? Does it feel difficult to do things that used to be very easy for you?
Your Vitamin D is very low and I would do something about that immediately. You can easily get Vit D pills from any pharmacy or Vitamin shop. Also, try to eat foods that are rich in Vitamin D, like Salmon, tuna, mackerel & Milk. Try to get more sunlight as well. Our bodies can get Vitamin D from the sun.
Are your knees or joints bothering you at all?
Be prepared for some Drs to tell you your hormones are fine. Many of us are being told by endocrinologists that there is nothing wrong with us because our T levels fall with the range that is considered healthy.
Continue to seek out a dr that is open minded and realizes a healthy 29 year old shouldn’t be at the bottom of his T range. I am going to my third endocrinologist because the first two didn’t believe anything was wrong with me.
I agree with Mew, you should start an exercise regimen that includes a good amount of weight training. It has been proven to increase T levels and also good for your bones as well.
Tribulus terrestris is a prostrate, matforming plant. Although it has been used by the Chinese for thousands of years, little was scientifically known about it until recently. Tribulus is said to increase testosterone levels by as much as 30%, especially when taken in conjunction with sopharma. The primary mechanism of action to explain this phenomenon is that tribulus stimulates the secretion of lutenizing hormone (LH) from the anterior pituitary gland. This in turn stimulates testosterone production, as well as growth hormone and estradiol. Therefore, tribulus can easily stimulate gynecomastia (gyno) and insulin resistance. This is very negative for bodybuilders. In women, tribulus stimulates follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and estradiol, but not testosterone. 750-1200 mg/day dosages are not uncommon and is usually stacked with 100 mg/day of DHEA (discussed later) and 100 mg/day of androstenedione. Although the rise in testosterone levels may sound attractive to many athletes, the side effects are much more dire than gynecomastia and insulin resistance. Tribulus Terrestris has been shown to dilate the coronary arteries (Wang, 1990) and has a diuretic effect (Arcasoy, 1998). In both cases, this can put the athlete in a dangerous state. Bourke (1995) found that severe nervous and muscular locomotor disorders are directly associated with tribulus terrestris ingestion. The production of bile stones is also greatly enhanced (Miles, 1994) due to hyperplasia of the bile ducts and diffuse swelling of hepatocytes (Tapia, 1994).
Gauthaman et al. (2005) suggests that tribulus stimulates androgen production, an effect similar to that of prohormones and prosteroids. For more on prohormones, read The Truth About Prohormones. As noted above, tribulus increases the risk of developing gynecomastia. Jameel et al. (2004) confirms this by stating that the increased incidence of gynecomastia in young male athletes is a direct result of the increased use of steroids and tribulus terrestris. Other evidence suggests that the heavy diuretic effect of tribulus can cause kidney damage.
Tribulus also contains a compound called saponin, which is a class of glucosides. Saponin derived from tribulus has been shown by Li et al. (2002) to elicit a hypoglycemic effect. Serum glucose is significantly lowered with tribulus supplementation, which has negative effects on insulin sensitivity and central nervous system function (the CNS runs solely on blood glucose). A result of prolonged tribulus supplementation may be diabetes. Further investigations by the same researchers found that tribulus lowers plasma HDL (“good” cholesterol) levels and severely restricts gluconeogenesis activity in the liver. Antonio et al. (2000) assessed the effect of tribulus supplementation (in high doses) on trained male athletes. Over the course of the investigation, there were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Slight increases in muscle strength were found in the tribulus group compared to the placebo, but the results were not significant. Antonio and his associates concluded: “Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.”
Based on the available evidence, tribulus terrestris is an extremely dangerous supplement and cannot be used in a safe manner. Its supplementation should be avoided by all athletes at all times.
Mew, I read the links but didn’t comprehend it. My T is directly mid-range and my Vit-D is at the very bottom of range. Is Vit-D binding with T and DHT positive? Is there a common cause making both of these things low rather than the lack of Vit-D causing T to be low?
Or is it that something is preventing Vit-D and T from binding
Met with the Endo today. He kinda agreed that T levels are low for someone of my age. He said that though unlikely, but this may be because of Finasteride. He said what has happened can not be undone, so he ordered some test to see if the problem was pituitary or testicular. Basically he just ordered to of LH/FSH and from this he can determine if the problem is testicular or pituary. If the problem is pituitary he will get a MRI etc. done but if the problem is testicular he said the only option is TRT.
I asked him for the tests mentioned on this site, like DHT and Adiol-G etc. and he kinda got pissed that I am telling him what to do.
I think my problem is testicular because I dont see any major prostate issue signs (urination, pain etc.). I dont like the sound of TRT, so I feel I am kinda stuck.
I think I should start on some natural supps, probably Zinc cause my T is so low. I am already on Vit D supps.
I have an IMP question on this forum: “HAS ANYONE WITH SUCH LOW LEVELS OF T (or generally messed up hormones) HAS SEEN ANY HORMONES RECOVERY WITH EXERCISE, DIET AND SUPSS. JUST ANYONE?”
I read pinkflyod had good recoveries with diet and juicing. Did he ever post his blood work?
This shit that we all have to put up with endo drs telling us Propecia didn’t cause the proble is bullshit. Young healthy guys don’t just become impotent for no reason. The majority of us were not taking any other medications and were perfectly healthy before taking this crap.
It’s amazing that these people can even call themselves doctors. This guy told you your only option is TRT. That is completely wrong. Several guys have had better results with clomid, proviron, cabergoline and even hgh. The guy hasn’t done any homework obviously.
Your doctor is a moron. Seek a new one. He sounds very incompetent… We should create a section called “Doctors:Wall of Shame.” It took me 4 visits to 4 different doctors until I found someone competent and believe what I told him. He even couldnt help me out though.
Dr. Crisler is probably our best option I would think. He’s a good man, will listen to you, and do the right thing.
Hey thanks for your advice man! BTW, my doc gave me this box of vitamin supplemet and I have been taking it for last one month. My T has come up from 260 to 360. The contents of bottle are: numedica.com/FreeAccess/Prod … name=NM161 I just noticed Tribulus mentioned there - is it risky in this quantity also?
In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5 mg/kg werestatistically significant.
In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in
DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10 mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51%
and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant.
THis study was done at the University of Singapore. Obviously, none of us know anything about the credibility of that institution. I read half of the study and will read the rest later. It’s very interesting, assuming it’s true. I would be more optimistic of what to expect if it was from a more well known organization. Maybe we can find another medical study.
though it is obviously worth to increase your testo level I would not count on any benefit regarding the sexual sides - too many here have appropriate testo level readings or have been on TRT without relief of symptoms.
The point that supraphysiological levels of T seems sometimes provide benefit regarding symptoms would in my eyes indicate that its metabolism is blocked somewhere…, but where?
anyways, i agree - before jumping on trt try some endogenous stimulation first.
But just beeing on TRT for some (me included) might relieve the sexual symptoms even if its doing so by supraphysoligical levels.
For me its great to know that i can feel horny if i take testogel. I dont take it regularly but just knowing that if i do take it my sexual interest comes all back and then some…
Its just a great relief to know that you can function sexually again even if adding T perhaps is not addressing the rootproblem.
this is a liquid product vitamin d which is HIGHLY absorbable… i have taken this, labs went WAY up for vitamin d, quit the stuff and again taken it -> massive increase in vitamin d
don’t be scared: take a bloodtest before, start supplementing 10.000 ius a day (5 drops) and do a retest after
BONUS: this helps for testosterone… mine came up from the 370 level to the 575 (verified later on again without any other supps that this indeed increased my testosterone… this time i was using 10.000 ius a day and i again went from 370 to 504)
this has to do with LH (luteinizing hormone) and making testicles more sensitive for more output of testosterone
don’t take tribulus it will screw up your hormone balance… i took it and all i got was more horny, some morning wood, but no erection for sex and if i had one , i would cum way faster than normal
tsh -> 2.5 any reading of tsh over 2 is an indication of hypothyroidism… your other numbers look normal but total t3 and ft4 could be in the gutter
reverse t3 could be elevated as well
i would get in touch with a good doc who can assess your cortisol, your thyroid status and nutrient status
otherwise if doing it yourself, get the vitamin d, a saliva stress test for cortisol, and some zrt labs for thyroid status
I am seeing Shippen this month end, I’ll ask him to write me the lab test for that.
In the mean while, anonnn1 I guess i asked you this before - did you retain your T levels after you stopped Clomid? Thanks.
I have been asking the same question many times but users do not respond back. What I have read so far for people like us (fin an SP users) T-leve do not sustain. Possible cuases for drop backl: other harmone level screwed up. for example prolactin ,estradiol, thyroide harmones and God knows what else.
