I’m not sure if anyone has posted this yet but I found it interesting. Says high testosterone suppresses the immune system which might go hand in hand with the autoimmune theory that our immune systems are overworked and fixing it with diet or other methods could regulate it and bring us to homeostasis. No idea if that sounds like I’m grasping for straws just found it interesting
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I’d have to agree that you are somewhat grasping for straws. Activation of the androgen receptor is paramount for activation of the innate immune system. If anything, this article just gives prudence to the “mean flu” being real haha.
lol fair enough I just found the fact that there is a connection between testosterone and the immune system interesting
I’m hypothesizing that immune system overactivation leads to haywire and autoimmunity based on the pro-inflammatory cytokines profile. I recall reading that people with higher testosterone are predisposed to getting sick more often. Oh well, I haven’t been sick in years and had a slew of chronic autoimmune issues. This may also explain why I felt best on testosterone + corticosteroid since both are said to block excess inflammation. Fun fact, I used to easily catch seasonal flu.
Immune system balance starts in the gut and this what I’ve been trying to bioack. I’ve witnessed this first hand since different probiotics either promote or suppress various autoimmune symptoms for me and also affect my state of mind.
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That’s along the same lines I was thinking. That the immune system response is causing inflammation preventing our bodies from recovering from PFS / PAS / PSSD.
Diet seems to be a key part of recovery. There’s a guy named Josh Abrhams who had a website that is no longer up but he claims to have reversed his post finasteride syndrome after either 1 or 2 years (can’t remember which) of an anti inflammatory diet. His theory was that inflammation prevents our bodies from recovering so reduce the inflammation so your body is in the best position to recover. On the website he had 4 or 5 articles explaining the reasoning behind his thoughts but the gist was that you need to lower inflammation. He had convincing reasoning backing it up but I can’t access his website anymore to read it. Obviously take this with a grain of salt as its just another theory that can’t be proven and he isn’t a doctor. You can find his twitter @joshabrhams where he posted a little about PFS (mostly links to his articles which are now down) but he does have 3 or 4 posts relevant to us but nothing groundbreaking. He did post that his testosterone went from 450 to 932 as a result of just lowering inflammation which I found interesting.
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Care to share link of his blog so I can take a look at his posts? I almost left no stones unturned and excess inflammation still proves to be the most plausible hypothesis in my case. I know this may sound too anecdotal but I swear trialing with different diets and probiotics had given me 100% remissions.
Inflammation is necessary for survival but I’m pointing to excess/chronic type of Inflammation that wreaks havoc on the endocrine system. This is in layman terms but it should explain the hypothesis: body systems exist in a balanced state, which normally shift resources toward reproduction (copulation is a basic instinct to survival). However, this delicate balance is disrupted when the immune system is overactivated and body resources shift toward fighting a “presumed threat” through the production and release of pro-inflammatory cytokines that result in what medical field call “sickness behavior”. Back to balance theory, the body then shifts endocrine system toward the production of anti-inflammatory chemicals and stress hormones (cortisol) to counteract this excess inflammation. This state is temporary under normal circumstances and balance is restored when the “threat” is eliminated and immune system is back to normality. Problem aries when this inflammatory state becomes chronic and testosterone (and subsequently all its metabolites) is downregulated in favor of stress hormones. We know from the biology class that both testosterone and cortisol are steroids hormones that are made from the same raw material (i.e. cholesterol) and share an inverse relationship. My n=1 anecdote points to microbiome dysbiosis (caused by finesteride/accutane/SSRIs…etc.) being the root cause of this immune system dysregulation.
He doesn’t have a blog he had a website with several articles he wrote on it. The website is now gone and theres no way to access his articles
Bummer! I’m figuring this out but getting more feedback from other recovered individuals helps tremendously.
Yeah unfortunately his articles are no longer available. His general theory is that people with PFS have high levels of inflammation preventing the body from recovering so a diet reducing inflammation will allow the body to recover. He also points out that people with severe burns tend to get low testosterone because they have such high levels of inflammation. Once again, take this with a grain of salt as I can’t find evidence for it and the guy is not a doctor. However, he does seem knowledgeable. I think that summarizes the gist of what he said
Could you please name some probiotics that promote autoimmune symptoms and some that suppress those autoimmune symptoms. For example when I take “omnibiotic” it always makes me worse.
Diet is a big component but it really is individual. In my own case, getting IgE & IgG antibodies test for different foods is necessary. Another compelling factor would be the individual microbiome. One would need to consume foods that increase the low bacteria and reduce/eliminate others that feeds overabundant ones. A good example would be to check SCFAs levels and make sure there’re enough bacteria to produce them. Butyrate, for instance, is necesary to prevent damage to gut lining and acts as anti-inflammatory.
It’s really individual. Getting microbiome analysis is critical to decide on probiotics. In my case, these were beneficial: Mutaflor (E. Coli nissle); Pro4-50 D-Lactate Free; Lactobacillus plantarum 299V; Align (Bifidobacterium infantis) & Activia yogurt (Bifidobacterium animalis dn-173 010). I cycle each for two weeks then switch. I also did Bimuno prebiotic and cleaned my diet.
Symptoms of inflammation are significantly reduced and I can finally feel euphoria and motivation. I get morning erections on most days and can have sex when needed. Again, get microbiome analysis test if you can.
How long of an anti inflammatory diet did it take before you got better (or at least saw positive results) ?
About 3 months of doing the above. I also added little baking soda, which is backed by research to help autoimmune disorders.
I just wish there’re more forum members who attempted this approach so we could form a common protocol.
So far this is how I think it should go:
- Get microbiome analysis
- Design personalized food plan
- Take applicable probiotics & supplements
- Track symptoms & adjust accordingly
- Get relevant blood tests
- Repeat
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