Thanks, Harvard. It’s so nice to be told that we’re just a bunch of guys suffering from sexual dysfunction once the baldness gene starting doing its work.
All this shows is that they are not looking at the right place. We have to take into account the places were they find nothing, and develop new theories, hinted at in the study.
Quotes from study:
“Although we did not find evidence of sequence variation in AR, SRD5A1, or SRD5A2 genes, or of significant alterations in expression of AR-dependent genes
in the skin, we cannot exclude the possibility of variations in other genes or in the gene expression levels in other tissues or specific brain regions involved in regulation of mood and sexual function. It is also possible that finasteride may exert epigenetic effects which may account for persistent symptoms.”
“The clinical implications of these findings are that symptomatic finasteride users are unlikely to benefit from treatment with testosterone, DHT, or any other androgen because these patients do not have evidence of androgen deficiency, persistent SRD5A inhibition or androgen insensitivity.”
The last part kills off quite a few theories that have been passed around here. If thats not a hit, new studies will have to look somewhere else.
Years for this study? That’s it? Surely there’s more that they’re releasing…? This can’t be it; if so, I can’t believe we put so much faith in this. Really disappointed. Seems like nothing is going for us other than the brain imaging showing the neural circuits change related to sexual functioning. I’m also really bothered that the cognitive complaints were discounted, saying that cognitive deficits did not arise in tests. I’m sure those same tests would probably not pick up the 24/7 change in consciousness I’ve experienced since crashing. I’m finally surprised there was no decrease in androgens found in the test subjects. I and many others have developed hypogonadal levels post finasteride.
Anyway, things to note:
“As sexual function worsened (ie, as IIEF scores went down), there was increasing activity in the neural circuits corresponding to sexual arousal and decreasing activity in brain regions associated with higher level cognitive and motivational networks in symptomatic finasteride users in response to erotic stimuli. This dissociation in activity may be a marker of neural changes postfinasteride use.”
“Symptomatic finasteride users also reported a slightly greater number of subjective cognitive complaints. However, we found no objective evidence of cognitive deficits using comprehensive tests of multiple domains of cognition. It is possible that mood and cognitive complaints may be related to reduced neurosteroid production due to persistent local inhibition of SRD5A activity in specific brain regions (42), which was not reflected in changes in peripheral DHT levels.”
“The men reporting persistent sexual symptoms had depressed mood, negative affectivity balance, and patterns of brain activity that correlated specifically with sexual and negative affective symptoms, and included regions known to be involved in sexual function and depression, respectively.”
Something doesn’t add up:
- The gland fibroblasts AR was higher in pilot studies, now they say its same as control?
- Many people found low bioavailabl Testosterone how does this fit in?
- Everyone testing for urinary levels of testosterone has either very high or veyr low levels.
So which studies are testing for epigenetic changes of the receptor, because that’s what really matters?!
I think the issue is related to what was found in the melcangi study in rats brains. they had more estrogenic motor cortex and prefrontal cortex. Studying the blood and the genes was bound to show nothing. i hope we get more answers from other studies.
This isnt good either :
“from Abbott Pharmaceuticals for investigator-initiated studies
unrelated to this study and has previously consulted for Eli Lilly,
Inc. Dr. Bhasin has received research grant support from Abbvie
Pharmaceuticals, Transition Therapeutics, Takeda Pharmaceuticals,
and Eli Lilly, Inc. for investigator-initiated research unrelated
to this study. Dr. Bhasin has served as a consultant to
AbbVie, Regeneron, Novartis, and Eli Lilly & Co. SB has a financial
interest in Function Promoting Therapies, LLC, a company
aiming to develop innovative solutions that enhance precision
and accuracy in clinical decision making and facilitate
personalized therapeutic choices in reproductive health. SB’s interests
were reviewed and are managed by Brigham and Women’s
Hospital and Partners HealthCare in accordance with their
conflict of interest policies. Other authors have reported no
What a disappointment, part of me had high hopes for this. I very much doubt any of us would be alive or young enough to care about their dicks by the time they discover the cause.
As I understand it, more will be released. Now Baylor is supposed to be looking closer at the epigenetics. And I have been told they found the same as the Italian study, that said that PFS patients had substantially upregulated Androgen Receptor expression.
Thankfully many people working for our cause arent so easily thrown off the horse. Did you really think that every single study would be a breakthrough? Get real and stop crying like a spoiled brat. Thanks. The process of elimination is important too. Eventually we will circle in on the cause and then we are off to the races (at least in regard to acceptance of our condition).
What’s your problem? Do you have to be an ass every time I express my opinion? My posts are my opinions, not facts. Your posts are your opinions too, not facts. You can be as positive as you want about this, and I can be as negative as I want. Stop the name calling and childish attitude. If you disagree with me, say it like a grown up.
I disagree and voiced it. I think you are behaving like an idiot. Nothing childish about stating that. If anything your attitude is childish, because you state that in all likelyhood we wont even find an explanation over our lifetime (another 60 years). Thats ridiculous. Be patient. All you do is discourage productive work on our condition. Its extremly annoying, childish and counterproductive.
If its the only path we have, why not just support it. You offer no alternative but want to discourage the work of others, any chance you get. If I wouldnt know any better, I would think you are an employee of Merck. I will continue to be an ass, as long as you behave like one. Sry to say. If you dont like it, dont read it.
I know. We all would have loved an explanation already. But we need to be patient.
Its ok if you have given up. But at least be intelligent enough and have the decency to not discourage the scientific work being done for you.
Right, “stop crying like a spoiled brat” very mature. Act like you are older than 10 if you want people to take you seriously. And don’t read my posts yourself if you don’t like them. You’ve had PFS for like what, little more than 2 years? 5 years later you’ll be singing an entirely different song.
Let other people judge what they want to take seriously. I think content matters more. And your content is the content of a loser, who has given up and wants to wallow in pitty, discouraging actual scientific work on our condition. Pathetic. I think you are immature, because you cant accept the fact that you only have one realistic option, when time and homebrew hasnt worked: science. You are also childish, because you cant think strategically and just cry when your lolly isnt immediatley handed to you.
And stop with the, wait another 3 years, I know PFS better than you nonsense. I have heard that last year, and nothing has changed. If anything, the longer nothing changes, the more I am convinced that serious research needs to be done on our condition.
I want to read your posts, just so I can tell you that you are a irrational, whinny little idiot.
Your posts are full of name calling and the prickly attitude of a 10 years old. The content of them matter little when your general tone is shit. I won’t reply to you anymore, you can be an ass by yourself as much as you want.
My posts might be riddled with insults, but maybe in your case they apply? Maybe PFS has transformed you into a bitter, extremly negative and counter productive person. Maybe all this is true? Or at least its true about your posts?
dont get disappointed by this study. this was expected. the studies build on each other, and there’s 3 of them.
its the baylor study which matters most for now. I believe it will show us the ghost we have been chasing in pfs all these years
As a side note I want to add that an italian Professor who is involved in the PFS studies is searching for participants for PSSD research also: pssdforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=774
(I’m not sure if I have PSSD or PFS or if it is some kind of synergy because I took both: SSRI and Finasteride.)
I took an ssri after pfs and it made me temporarily loopy. I recovered but I wonder if I experienced a taste of the worst mental side effects of pfs. And I wonder about the synergy too. Must be a link.
I’ve kept my mouth shut for some time now but you really need to calm down, dude. You’re aggressive towards many on the forum and constantly seem to demonize those who don’t donate to the studies. Let people voice their opinions and leave them alone, even if their opinions are absurd. You telling people off has no value to the community nor is it going to make anyone see your way.
How does it help the community, when vanquish says that scientists will in all likelyhood not find even an explanation for PFS in our lifetime (which is another 60 !! years). Basically wallowing in self pity and engaging in self destructive behaviour. Saying, I am dissapointed is one thing. Posting obvious nonsense that discourages people from pushing on all fronts, is another.
Again, I generally dont care if some guys want to experiment with drugs, homebrew or whatever. Everyone needs to do what he thinks is necessary. And if you havent set up a small recurring monthly donation, to support scientists doing research on our condition, thats your loss. But I wont harass you for it.
I do however get very upset, when people actively post emotional nonsense and discourage people from participating in studies or financially supporting the foundation. Thats just downright destructive behaviour.
So there is a big difference, between chosing a different path or not donating and actively posting stuff that tries to discourage people from making progress on the science front.
If he wants to destroy chances of us making progress (via downplaying the possiblity of scientists finding an explanation), I get to call him out in very harsh terms for it. Notice that I havent called out you for example, stating that you were upset/ dissapointed about the results/ conclusions of this study. We all are and I get that.