Story of Spstriken

Member Stories
#261

My brother never brings up his sexuality but I can tell he had problems. This is off the records but he’s always been the one chasing random skirts on the street yet that wasn’t the case during his hardship. I can notice his attitude has changed for the better during family gatherings, he’s more engaged, social with more sense of humor. He brags about pristique but I can’t really say. I mean he’s persuading my younger sister to give it a try for her own personal issues so it must be working for him.

Low E2 has been the bane of my existence for the past 3 years and I’m yet to figure out what’s driving it so low. Out of hundreds of supplements, DHEA was the only one that measured up. I was on 15-20mg/d for about 2 weeks, IIRC, and did before/after bloodwork. My E2 level went up from mere 11 pg/ml to 28 pg/ml at the time. My libido returned full-swing, I could finally fantasize and get random boners. Sadly, I also noticed symptoms that include lightheadedness, fatigue, stomach aches, and sleepiness. I figured these were probably due to low cortisol. That said, I’ve also been on plethora of other things so my symptoms may have been due to something else.

Reading up on DHEA, it appears that doses of sub 15mg/d are androgenic whereas >15mg/d doses are estrogenic in men (i.e. tend to converts to E2). Whilst I loved the initial effects, it had given me a clue where to look as long as low E2 is concerned.
@5-alpha-victim

#262

Very interesting

Respect for doing everything the way you do it with locking in on an experiment and doing before and after testing.

If we had more of us doing this I think we would have different variants of PFS established.

Giving your positive experience with increasing estrogen on DHEA this may be something you want to consider:

It contains “4 DHEA”. The product gets good feed back. It’s a “pro hormone” claimed to increase testosterone and for the Saw P-PFS guys getting good results by increasing estrogen get good results on this product. Based on what I read this “4 DHEA” converts to testosterone to a higher degree then regular DHEA which means in theory we should see even higher amounts of testosterone to estrogen conversion on this.

Two other Saw P-PFS guys get good results from this product specifically and we assume that it’s due to the increase in estrogen.

I’m about to run a trial of it for my first time starting at the end of this week. I’m going to run before and during labs to see exactly what the 4 DHEA is doing to my testosterone and estrogen. If it helps my sexual sides I’ll be hoping to see a correlation with increased estrogen in this trial.

I’m a little nervous because this product can shut down your natural T production and I have been herb cycling for years to help maintain good natural T levels. So for my first time in a long time I’m coming off the herbs and I’m going to risk shutting my self down for this trial. I’ll have the herbs ready to go as soon as I’m done running this.

If I get even as good results from this that I got on my first two trials of hops extract which agonizes estrogen receptor alpha I’ll consider it a success with further establishing that in certain cases increasing estrogen helps. From here my goal will be trying to figure out if there is any specific value on a test that can distinguish us as being a PFS case that gets benefits from increasing estrogen. Obviously the idea is to have some type of way to know or at least have a better idea as to who will get worse and who will get better from increasing estrogen before you try it. One value I have my eye on right now is the potent estrogen receptor beta agonist 3b-diol. I’m flagged low in plasma 3b-diol. I wonder of you are as well. Spstricken is lowish in 3b-diol as well. If we could get two of us with confirmed low 3b-diol who both get improvements in sexual sides from increasing estrogen confirmed on labs now we are getting somewhere

In my mind this is how we beat PFS. It would take a major group effort though. Let’s face it one guy increases estrogen and gets worse. Then warns everyone else that increasing estrogen makes PFS worse. So no one else try’s it again. That’s the problem everyone goes about treating PFS with a “blanket approach” and fails because it’s not a “blanket problem”. If we had listened to the “blanket statement” that “increasing estrogen makes PFS worse” we would not have discovered that in our own cases it actually can make us better. We both now have a solid path to explore further for our own cases and we found this path by not viewing PFS as being ABC went wrong so we need to do DEF

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#263

Spot on @5-alpha-victim ! Couldn’t have said it any better. I echo your opinion on the “blanket approach”. I’ve been repeating myself saying that PFS isn’t a disorder of singular origin. Fin results in PFS but so does SP, AIs, SSRIs, accutane and what have you. How symptoms overlap is staggering. I wholeheartedly understand the urgent need for a universal treatment as in the case with vaccinations, but living with this disorder for so many years and experimenting with hundreds of supposedly tried-and-true supplements and whatnot have taught me this is NOT the case. That’s why I resorted to my own historical data to track down abnormalities. I tried to get bloodwork not only during my bad times but also during good times. E2 and DHEA-s were strongly correlated with my libido, motivation, assertion, assertion and well-being. It appears that increasing E2 in such a way T/E2 is balanced is the way to go for the low E2 subset of PFS.

That said, I came across many fellow sufferers with apparently high E2 but I can’t speak for them since I haven’t been there myself. I tried to do some digging about 4-DHEA and it seems it’s the synthetic version of DHEA that converts to T (and thus E2) at a more effective rate, in theory. Regular DHEA in doses of 15-25mg/d for 2-3 weeks wasn’t suppressive to T, well at least in my case, but I’m not sure how this translates to the synthetic 4-DHEA.

Is there anyone on this forum who had experience with 4-Andro/4-DHEA?

#264

I completely agree with everything you have said here.

I’m not sure if anyone on this forum has tried
4-DHEA. I will do a search on this forum and see.

In the meantime I have also dug a little deeper into 4-DHEA. Here is what I found:

4-DHEA converts to 4-Androstenediol.

Regular DHEA converts to 5-Androstenediol.

4-Androstenediol has a higher conversion rate to testosterone then 5-Androstenediol

Interestingly the 5-Androstenediol that regular DHEA converts to is believed to have a higher aromatase rate to estradiol then the
4-Androstenediol that 4-DHEA converts to. I did not know this…

So maybe we still end up getting more estradiol conversion from the
4-Androstenediol compared to the
5-Androstenediol because we are getting more testosterone from the 4-Androstenediol

Another explanation could be the exact enzymes responsible for converting the
4-Androstenediol into testosterone. In other words different enzymes may be responsible for 5-Androstenediol’s and 4-Androstenediol’s conversion to testosterone and this could possibly influence Estradiol’s conversion rate maybe ? I’m trying find a good steroid pathway chart that shows both 5-Androstenediol’s and 4-Androstenediol’s conversions to testosterone to get a better idea as to if this specific point makes sense. I do know that there is also a pro hormone called “1-andro” that these body builder type guys take to get their testosterone up.

This particular “1-andro” product they say does not convert to estradiol after the
“1-andro” converts to testosterone. Not sure why but I’m thinking along these lines when trying to figure out why exactly 4-DHEA’s conversion to 4-Androstenediol converts to testosterone with a subsequent lower conversion to estradiol then 5-Androstenediol. There is an explanation I’m just not sure if the explanation is enzyme related. I’ll have to do more research. For now I do know that two other Saw P-PFS guys get improvements on the 4-DHEA and they think it’s because of the increase in estrogen. One of these two guys got cured completely and believes that the 4-Andro cycles he did played a big part in his recovery. Both of these people are on a different forum.

I have my 4-DHEA. I’ll be beginning the trial as soon as I get my labs done. Then I’ll run more labs on cycle so we can see exactly what it’s doing. fingers crossed

#265

This is super interesting. Frankly, I wouldn’t worry too much about the higher E2 conversion rate since playing with the dose alone can do this on either supplements. As I said earlier, regular DHEA in doses of 15-25mg/d was enough to drive up E2 to 28 pg/ml after 2 weeks, more or less. There’s also a sweet spot for E2 that achieves optimal T/E2 ratio. Going beyond that delicate point would likely result in high E2 issues that are similar to low E2 ones in more ways than one.

I’d suggest you also test for DHEA-S to see where your basal level at. Mine was at the rock bottom and DHEA did raise it. I think 4-Andro provides some 60mg 4-DHEA per serving. I would start real slow (~15mg/d) for a few days and see how I do before titrating up the dose. E2 is involved in numerous bodily processes and being a bodybuilder for 20+ years has taught me that it’s critical to male libido. I think maintaining its level at an optimal range for a while would eventually normalize a number of crucial-to-recovery things such as: gut microbiome, brain BDNF, body fat%, serotonin, dopamine, other hormones, etc.

#266

Awesome info in this thread. Thank you for sharing that.

My labs got delayed by a day but I am getting them done in the morning and will start the 4 DHEA tomorrow. I have not made any final decisions on dosing yet but will likely start low and work my way up.

Years ago I recall getting tested for plasma DHEA sulfate and mine was normal.

Interestingly more recent salvia hormone testing discovered that I am low in Pregnenolone sulfate <1 pg/ml (reference range: 1-23 pg/ml) which is seen at the very beginning of the cascade with Pregnenolone going to Pregnenolone sufate via the ST enzyme which also converts DHEA to DHEA sulfate. On the sterioid cascade chart I attached you can see pregnenolone going to pregnenolone sulfate and DHEA going to DHEA sulfate via the “ST” enzyme. So maybe we have something wrong with this enzyme as well as the aromatase enzyme.

Sterioid Cascade
Sterioid Cascade620×560 45.2 KB

#267

Regarding low E2, it’s a tricky issue. Took me years trying to fathom the root cause and came up with potential scenarios:

  • Low T. This one is cut and dry.
  • Low DHEA-S. That’s been my case.
  • Aromatase enzyme deficiency. Possibly when T is normal. I originally belonged to the high E2 crew but have abused aromasin (AKA suicidal inhibitor) recklessly in 2017. There’re anecdotes about it permanently messing up aromatase enzyme.
  • Gut dysbiosis. Microbiome is also involved in regulating endocrine and lacking certain bacteria is said to reduce beta-glucuronidase enzyme activity that reactivates deactivated hormones including E2.
#268

I am feeling hugely better after stopping Gluten. My bloating has reduced to 40% to 50%. After a long time colon swelling and pain has reduced.
My Celiac test has been negative. Also I have not heard of anyone in my immediate or extended family with celiac. Maybe this kind of gluten intolerance is undocumented in Medical field.

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#269

Hi. Just want to share something with you. If you have a reaction to gluten, you probably have it to some other food. Because it is an underlying process that makes you intolerant to something. I don’t think you have resolved the root cause. Maybe you have temporarily suppressed it with VitD. So I suggest you discuss it with your doctor. Take care.

#270

Thanks.
I already have discussed and Celiac test was negative. Also celiac is not in our family or extended family.
This is common to Benicar users as well . If you google Benicar+ Gluten you will see people become gluten intolarant with negative Celiac. I thing our P450 enzyme has altered .P450 has major role in the metabolism of Gluten and detoxification.

#271

It’s called NCGS (non celiac gluten sensitivity). It’s not very good understood yet, but it’s certainly documented.

#272

hey spstriken. i’m not sure i can private message you, but could you leave me a way to contact you? thanks

#273

sp1"at"live.ca =>you know what you have to edit here.

#274

i sent you an email. get back to me when you can

#275

Here is my update .In 12 year period I feel some symptoms have got worse. I was thinking I was improving but looks like I am standing on the same spot. I don’t need any sympathy. I am just writing for the sake of information and knowledge. I already strong suspect which organ is behind these all symptoms.
1- Still feel like nauseous and throwing up when feel bad.
2- Still have low energy, get tired easily.
3- Body hairless have got worse. Legs, chest have lost a lot of hair. Legs are hair free now, will upload pics.
4- Still spit blood when feel bad. The blood is not coming from teeth or gums, have confirmed through the dentist. The blood from gums is easily recognizable as it is fresh and not mixed with saliva. This blood is well mixed with saliva and seems to have come from stomach or other tissues deep inside my digestive system.
5- Colon and intestines have got a lot worse. This area really has got very bad. I used to have pain in a small area only in the beginning but now feel like all intestines are bruised and injured. I am eating only boiled rice. All kind of gluten is out from my diet. My stomach is like a balloon. Food takes hours and hours to digest (sometimes even after 10 hours it is sitting there).
6- Still bruising very easily. My nose bleeds daily like it used to 12 years ago.
7- My chest ( right nipple especially) still itches like 12 years ago. Sometimes is burns like fire.

New symptoms:
1- Veins in my body, especially in my calves and feet have popped up. They are looking like worms (varicose veins). They are not benign they ache and hurt at night. Sometimes slightly and sometimes very badly.
2- Hemorrhoids are forming and then bursting in the toilet. It makes a mess there.
3- Spine aches and some nights burn like it is in fire.
4-My back itches a lot. I have got bruises between my shoulders because of scratching my back.

#276

Sounds awful. Did you have your stomach and/or intestines looked at? If you’re coughing up blood they ought to see something.

#277

blood is not regular, only when I feel bad. Saliva becomes light or dark red. It mostly appears when I get up in the morning.

#279

Update
Here are answers to questions asked to me in private messages. I have mixed news good and bad.
My legs did not get hair back. Indeed almost 99.99% bald. Only few hair are left.
My belly sometimes very big and sometimes little bigger but still very big,
My energy level is still below normal.
Good news is by changing food and taking vitamins I am going through my life. Who knew I would make that far. At the start of my symptoms for about 6 months I was not able to walk or hold hard objects like hammer or screw driver in my hands due to loss of muscles and tissues in my hands and feet but thanks God today it is not a problem.
My saliva test have shown my liver detoxification is extremely slow. The same test results were reported by another user “The_Ruffneck”. Initially I had doubt about saliva results but I believe them now. My test were done in USA and The_Ruffneck performed in Australia. I planning to go for P-450 enzyems test. I am very much sure aftger Fin, SP , Accutane and Statins etc use our P-450 enzymes have gone tool low. This is very importan enzymes responsible for Vitamin D synthesis and sex hormones. If your P450 is low, then your vitamin D and sex hormones will be bye bye.

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#280

Dough effect.
when you place a spherical dough on a flat surface, after some time under gravity it starts flattening, this is what I feel when I sit or stay with the same position for some time. Even this effect is obvious when I sleep. When I change my position, the body takes up new shape and that translon gives pain. Also with dough effect my blood does not circulate properly. I will upload a sketch to show how dough effect causing trouble for me.

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#281

Thanks for the update. 13 years!?! I wish this hadn’t happened to you. But, I’m also glad you’re still here to let us noobs know what the future might hold.

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