Just a little update. When I take refrigerated probiotic my stools are mushy and lighter, but almost daily, when I take probiotic in pills I get constipated, but stools look more normal and are darker.
I am very distraught with my situation right now. I’ve thrown away good 60 years of my life for nothing. I feel like I am going to implode.
Sorry you’ve ended up here. Stay away from supps give your body time to rebalance it may feel permanent but there’s a good chance you’ll recover stay strong and keep hope
Before taking probiotics try to learn about biome if you didnt, please. There are a lot of strains. Each strain have its properties. Every strain generate different residuals. Some of them ammonia, some of them histamine, some of them d-lactic. If you didnt check your biome you dont know if you have overgrowth of bacteria (they both can generate excess of residuals). Excess of ammonia can lead to hyperammonomia (neurotoxicity) f.ex. Also bacteria compete for the same territory, if you dont know what you’re doing maybe you’re killing some bacteria that you dont want to kill. Also death of bacteria are residuals that can trigger symptoms.
Not saying dont use gut approach. I really think It can helps. Just saying that you can learn a lot. And that just by cuting sugars and processed food you Will be doing a lot
Check these subreddits:
r/Guthealth
r/SIBO
r/Longcovidgutdysbiosis
r/HistamineIntolerance
r/Candida
r/microbiome
I had the exact same thought. Actually started to develop gyno after 9 months or so that’s why I quit. Didn’t even think my other sides had with fin to do until a lot later. Almost thankful for the gyno as it made me stop the medicine ASAP.
@LazarusRy Thank you for the kind words, but some of the sides I have especially the sexual (especially, especially the physical changes that run me straight to the ground every time I visit bathroom) and neurological do not have many miraculous ‘cure’ stories here, so I think I am going to stay on this forum ‘persistently’ for the time being.
As for now the only supplement I take consistently is ALCAR after reading that Itookfinanddutast had some success with it. I guess ALCAR did not make anybody here worse and I think that it makes me feel a little better mentally after all.
@Huehueh96 I was taking those probiotics after an initial visit to gastroentrologist, but I think she really underestimated my problems. I think she totally ignored me mentioning finasteride as the culprit and treated it as a simple mild dysbiosis. I guess I will do comprehensive stool test to see what is exactly going on. But the problems with my gut are most likely caused by something being damaged by sudden hormonal crash, so I don’t know how much of my PFS problems can my gut cause (probably not much at all), but still potential neurotoxicity does not sound good.
And one more thing I don’t wanna get right now is a massive pot belly on top of PFS @25yo so I’ll do my best to fix the gut.
As far as I am concerned the problem with my gut can be only standard PFS constipation that is being turned to direarrhea by probiotics without significant dysbiosis, but who knows. And who knows what is exactly standard PFS constipation?
Funny how I went from thinking about my life in terms of finding a lovely wife, getting a better position at work, buying a house to watching out not to get a pot belly by some kind of weird syndrome that probably only 10-30 people have in my country. And a syndrome that I didn’t have to get at all. Well, that nobody here had to actually get. Such a great shame.
(Well at least for now I don’t have big muscle+skeletal+skin problems and I was spared from insomnia and brain fog)
Also I was lately thinking about the newest genetic study that is being funded and how it really is a shot in the dark as the PFS might easily not be genetic but dependent on ex. some conditions during development in the womb or even taking some 5ari supplements or foods at some point in life leading to epigenetic changes and leaving one vulnerable to the suicide inhibitor aka the magic, safe hairloss pill. I know that there is a pair of brothers that got PFS here, but the womb or taking some 5ari food or supplement hypothesis seem to still make sense next to genetic predisposition hypothesis. But I really hope the study will be successful and will keep donating. Additionally I hope that the Kiel study will be even more successful and will open a door to some further studies or even treatments (hopefully effective for more than a few months).
EDIT After reading notna and pvdl stories I have realised that the have developed the same symptoms within the same time intervals which would strongly indicate the genetic predisposition theory I guess.
If you’re curious i remember @doomed80 @giuseppek talked a lot about gut. Giuseppek postes his biome results.
Another Guy that is trying to heal his gut is @Nathaniel-nathanson.
Btw, i talked about neurotoxicity, but dont get obsessed with that word. Its just one thing that can happen with umbalanced gut but its not common at all lol. And If thats the problem, once It gets better you will be okay.
I dont think gut is a cure at all but it Will help you a lot :). It also regulates hormones!
No, I am not specifically obsessing with neurotoxicity 
, but I am aware that this condition might get worse through many things like self experimentation, time or even random chance, so I will probably look into gut just to make sure the microbiota would not have a chance to make me worse. And while doing this I would probably stay away from antibiotics just to be safe.
Cześć. Jestem z Polski i chętnie ci pomogę jeśli napiszesz na pw
A little update to my story. During this week I went from being very depressed and blunted to almost a recovery. The recovery lasted 2 days 5-6 may.
The symptoms that got better in varying degrees were:
Personality,
Enjoyment of things and life including music,
Sexual stuff (mostly that primal foggy ‘urge to have sex’ feeling in the morning),
Energy levels including not being sleepy at 10pm (I could actually easily stay up to 2am like before, how lovely),
Digestion and it’s byproducts (this one made me very happy),
Not thinking about this condition every minute.
Things that did not improve:
Dry lips,
I think this weird shaky feeling inside has not improved too, but I was happy to be myself again and I really didn’t pay much attention to this.
New psychological symptom after this recovery:
Worrying that I am going to deteriorate over time even more.
Why this recovery happened I don’t know. Maybe rebound effect from being depressed. I also starting supplementing some vitamins again on first day of recovery, but after eating those today (3rd day of this regime) I have noticed no effect - back to PFS blunted reality.
(Vitamins were 5 drops of ADEK vitamins, 1pill of 4000ui D3, 2 pills 100mgc K1, 1 pill L. Reuteri probiotic 7Mil, 1 pill sodium butyrate, 1 pill gut motility Rx pill, 1mg L-citrulline)
Edit. Also about a week ago I’vs had a cold and started taking antiviral+immuno stimulating pils and did feel little better for 2-3 days. But the same pills even before PFS made me feel better and I was sometimes looking for catching a cold to fell this kind of small high from those tablets (Izoprynozyna - Groprinosin).
Edit2. What I didn’t include previously, but I think is very interesting is the fact that I am almost an Aspie type of guy, but initially after a crash I felt like I have gone much further into the spectrum.
I feel like my personality is changing on a day to day basis. Really disturbing. I also got this weird imploding/suffocating feeling in my whole body.
For the record:
Friday, Saturday - feeling almost recovered mentally
Sunday - feeling like I am in Stanley Kubrick’s 2001 Space Odyssey. Totally empty, alone and abandoned.
Monday - physically exhausted whole day, mentally I don’t even know.
Tuesday - fine, even getting better by the hour then in the evening snap, a sudden shift. I went out for a walk to calm down and I’ve experienced feeling of impending doom which switched to feeling like stranger in a town that I was living for 25 years. And the change of mental state itself was quiet and ominous, felt like a can of black paint was spilt inside of me literally while I was typing a message on my phone.
It’s like involuntary playing dice with the devil.
I think this is going to be one of the last updates on my story (well no more interesting things to report I guess).
After cutting out all the supplements I became much more mentally stable - no sudden changes in mood.
Also I think I figured up why I got hit in the first place. I think I was low on test and 5ar was upregulated so DHT was doing a lot of heavy weight lifting. Or maybe I was low on 5ar and the receptors were upregulated. 5 days of fin blocked things enough to the point of me getting anxious for no reason while on fin. After stopping DHT and other 5ar products were blocked for at least a week or more. And after stopping the existing 5ar products got recycled so I was left with none and low test? So about a week after stopping I got hit really hard.
PS also it is possible that I drank some grapefruit juice during taking fin as I was drinking a lot juices and it was possible that I drank grapefruit not knowing that it could interact with fin.
Edit. According to ‘Regulation of de novo lipogenesis in human liver by 5α-reductase’ 5ar2 inactivates cortisol in liver, so perhaps that’s why I got so increasingly anxious. I wonder if sky high cortisol could have started cascade effect and caused crash in other systems outside brain.
Edit2 Demon from Italy was destroyed with antiandrogenic cream after 7 days so it matches my timeline. Could grapefruit juice make fin inhibit much more that 70% dht in certain tissues? Could naturally high prolactin (or its spike) enhance fin grapefruit boosted antiandrogenic properties?
Edit3 What if fin binds to androgen receptors themselves in some people and degrades cells in some way so then they cannot receive androgens?
Also I wonder if there is some graph of hourly hormones and neurosteroids after discontinuing fin. Perhaps this could give some insight what might go wrong.
Edit4 After reading those forums for some time the reason why all those symptoms are persistent is clear and undeniable. Btw The recovery windows are not evidence against this reason.
More than 3 month out, obviously no improvements. I might be even getting tinnitus worsening now. Also I remembered that I specifically asked for contact in my adverse event report form. Obviously no hearing back. I know that the reporting system does not work that way, but still…
Not really needed update for almost 4th month. No improvements in PFS. In addition I have now actually completely forgot how I used to be like and how every aspect of life felt, tasted, smelled.
I think vitamine d3, e, k1 combo brings me to a livable level lately. I can be emotional while watching a motion picture, but not from music itself - FUCK. Also what follows are non existent orgasms, no contractions, just feel the buildup. I wonder if I can somehow fix this. I’ve had at least 2 recovery windows where I could feel music, I wonder if it was from any of the supplements I was taking. Perhaps it was gut related?
I don’t know whether this is everybody’s experience here, but if I listen to music I can feel like there is something that really wants to happen my brain, but it doesn’t. Like someone that wants to shout, but has no voice. Do you guys have the same?
Also I get super sleepy if I eat a moderate ammounts of sweets. Is that (very) bad?
Also I have this weird feeling in the right top part of my brain. Almost like a pressure/tingling/numb feeling you have after you have cut out blood flow to your hand by lying on it. It isn’t very strong. Probably very bad.
Curious thing. I can laugh to the point of my stomach hurting, but no oxytocin from music. Still a movie can make ma experience some emotions or perhaps emotion. Also dopamine/motivation is low still.
Yea, that sounds familiar.
2 last days were very good, I was back to myself, including enjoyment from music. Bad thing I was constipated as hell. Today I was myself to the point that the testosterone anger/irritability came back, but I took gut relaxing rx pill from gastroenterologist to do something about the constipation. Good news, it relived the constipation almost instantly, bad news my mood really tanked plus I got sleepy. What is this? Anybody knows how to fix the gut, but not destroy everything else at the same time? I really need to be myself again.
BTW. Today I woke up at 8.30 not stupid 5 or 6 God bless. I hope this tablet washes up pretty quickly and I could go back to me being be. I thought those improvements I had were to the d,e,k1,alcar combo, I hope they were not because of constipation itself. Will update in some days.
Slowly recovering from this weird crash. Music is still good. Weird thin is that I get sleepy and have low energy right after meals (especially big ones).