SSRIs to deal with anxiety (Question)

General Discussion
#22

It’s so odd that it seems we can’t properly balance excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmitters anymore.

Apparently Dopamine can act as an excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmitter. Dopamine goes to Norepinephrine via dopamine beta hydroxylase. Norepinephrine goes to Epinephrine via phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferase. SAMe acts as a cofactors/methyl donor to convert Norepinephrine to epinephrine via the phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferase enzyme. Epinephrine is adrenaline. When I crashed into insomnia I was also on SAMe. However according to my before and after urine neurotransmitter test results my over all epinephrine/adrenaline production did not increase. So it’s weird. I think it’s the GABAa receptors being out of wack in my case throwing everything off.

Apparently Norepinephrine and epinephrine are excitatory only. The point I think is that more Dopamine likely means more Norepinephrine and Epinephrine. I don’t know Wellbutrins mechanism. I don’t know if it’s increasing dopamine or if it’s inhibiting dopamine’s reuptake in the brain. Have not read about it yet. My gut feeling on this is that inhibiting reuptake of any neurotransmitters is not good especially for us in our imbalanced state. It’s messing with how neurotransmitters work. Maybe the safest way to experiment with adjusting neurotransmitters in an attempt to find our equilibrium is to increase naturally production by taking the amino acids that convert to a specific neurotransmitter and let the body do what it wants to do with it. Opposed to inhibiting the reuptake in the synapse. This scares me

I think that it my case GABAa receptors down regulated and remain permanently down regulated. GABA is main inhibitory neurotransmitter. Glutamate is the main excitatory neurotransmitter. GABA and glutamate need to be on proper balance and body makes it a priority to keep these two things in balance. So maybe if GABAa receptors down regulated glutamate receptors also down regulated in at attempt to match GABAa. Now system can’t find its equilibrium

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#23

I took 50MGs over a course of four days (200 MGs total). It dulled my anxiety some what and helped with my acid reflux problem. It did however cause me muscle problems and one loose stool daily. I used to have constipation from Finasteride It definitely messed with my already out of balance neurotransmitters.

#24

Interesting

The 5-HTP along with L-Tryptophan completely cured my constipation as well. I can say I also got loose stools but I don’t view this as a bad thing. Anything’s better then constant constipation.

If it increases serotonin in your case it makes sense that this would help with anxiety because serotonin is inhibitory.

#25

I dunno man. I was twitching a lot when I was on Finasteride but 5HTP made it worse. I have a hard time during muscle recovery post workouts

#26

Low dose Fluoxetine like 2.5mg/d has positive effects on neurosteroids and increase allopregnanalone without effecting serotonin. Do your own research, but if you’re desperate this could be something. Allopregnanalone is a very important neurosteroid believed to be deficient in PFSers and has a powerful effect on GABA and is consequently anxiolytic.

#27

You have the right to decide for yourself, but I recommend against taking dangerous SSRI. It’s too risky for what it could potentially do to you.

I have a history with depression and took Bupropion (not an ssri) for a while to help alleviate it, but in retrospect I don’t think it played a major role in my battle against depression.

For me, the best thing I ever did was getting a coach, who helped me with correctly pacing out all the shit I wanted to do, practising self-care and caring for my environment, making sure I was able to get on top of things, resulting in huge reduction of negative factors and so much more headspace to focus on positive and new things.

I promise you that lifestyle changes do a lot more than medication ever could. Which sounds difficult, I know, but that’s why you don’t have to do it alone.

You can’t fix PFS until research finds what it is, but until then you can improve your life and it can certainly be done without SSRI.

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#28

I pee out high amounts of Allopregnanolone. With this being said I don’t think I’m producing low amounts of Allopregnanolone. In fact I think my body is getting rid of it for a reason. I believe that this is a strong indication that I don’t want to do anything that increases Allopregnanolone

Allopregnanolone is a positive Allosteric modulator of the GABAa receptors similar to benzodiazepines. Pregnenolone sulfate is a negative allosteric modulator of the GABAa receptors which I’m low in production of

I think my body is getting rid of Allopregnanolone due to being low in Pregnenolone sulfate

#29

Interestingly the only thing that would help me before Fluoxetine were Benzodiazapines.

#30

Solid affective feedback. Great words.

#31

5htp made me permanently worse too

as for anxiety, id stay away from all SSRI’s

last year i couldnt look at screens without getting shocks all over and getting anxiety attacks until i went extremely low carb in diet and stayed in ketosis

obviously im not giving you medical advice here, just sharing my opinion

#32

Sorry if I already asked. I have been posting on a lot of different threads and can’t remember

I googled fluoxetine and this is what I get:

“Fluoxetine sold under the brand names Prozac and Sarafem among others, is an [antidepressant] selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor”

I think someone else here also mentioned that fluoxetine increases Allopregnanolone…

When I googled it I see that it’s a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. An easy google search does not show this drug having any impact on Allopregnanolone.

Did you read anywhere that low dose of fluoxetine impacts Allopregnanolone? I’m just curious I would like to read the study or where ever you got this info

#33

I recently ended up in severe relapse insomnia. Benzodiazepines provided instant relief for me on the insomnia but did not help me with any of the sexual sides.

As much will power as it takes because they do work for the insomnia I stopped taking the benzodiazepines because I’m worried that even though they help my insomnia temporarily while on them that maybe they are further down regulating the GABAa receptors if this is a part of my problem. I know I’m kinda rambling but I think there is something to my body peeing out high amounts of Allopregnanolone and both benzodiazepines and Allopregnanolone are doing the same thing to the GABAa receptors.

I almost want to find a way to temporarily inhibit Allopregnanolone and see what happened’s. But obviously I don’t want to do this experiment with a 5AR inhibitor.

Which specific sides of yours did benzodiazepines help ?

#34

How did it make you worse and how much did you take?

#35

You are correct that Fluoxetine / Prozac is primarily trademarked as an SSRI. However, there are studies which show that microdosing Fluoxetine have positive effects on neurosteroids and allopregnanlone. At the doses required to act as a Selective Brain Steroidgenic Stimulant, Fluoxetine does not act as an SSRI and has little to no effect on serotonin. I have linked some references below that I found via google search.

My symptoms were hypersensitivity to stimulation and stress. The best way to describe it was a severe sensation of feeling wired, fried and overstimulated in the brain whenever I engaged in anything stimulating or stressful. Some examples include using the computer, watching TV, socialising, etc. I couldn’t even look at a computer screen for more than 10 minutes without feeling severely wired. It was like my GABA was not working at all. It felt like the accelerator was stuck ON with no break is the best analogy I can describe. After starting the fluoxetine I have no issues when socialising and when using the computer, the change has been quite incredible actually. Prior the only thing that would work for me were benzodiazapines. I would much prefer to microdose Fluoxetine than take benzos. At the doses I plan to take Fluoxetine does not have an effect on serotonin.

  1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880842/

low non-serotonergic doses of fluoxetine and congeners increase allopregnanolone levels as their primary mechanism of action

  1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2670606/

SSRIs act as selective brain steroidogenic stimulants (SBSSs) at low doses that are inactive on 5-HT reuptake

  1. https://theconversation.com/prozac-and-pms-how-antidepressants-could-help-with-that-painful-time-of-the-month-35294

Treatment with fluoxetine and other SSRIs can increase the concentration of allopregnanolone in rat and mouse brains, a response which can be seen within an hour and at doses lower than those required to inhibit the re-uptake of serotonin. Low doses of SSRIs can also increase allopregnanolone in human brains.

  1. https://www.pnas.org/content/95/6/3239.long

Increase in the cerebrospinal fluid content of neurosteroids in patients with unipolar major depression who are receiving fluoxetine or fluvoxamine. We hypothesized that the increase of ALLO brain content induced by treatment with SSRIs could contribute to alleviating the anxiety.

  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosteroid

Certain antidepressant drugs such as fluoxetine and fluvoxamine, which are generally thought to affect depression by acting as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), have also been found to normalize the levels of certain neurosteroids (which are frequently deficient in depressed patients) at doses that are inactive in affecting the reuptake.

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#36

i took 1 pill cant remember the amount

it made me worse because its an ar inhibitor just like finasteride and other SSRI’s

#37

Alex50 posted studies explaining how SSRI’s such as fluoxetine increase allopregnanolone with out inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin at low doses. So knowing the dose of the SSRI is key. And then I think the other thing that should be considered is the question as to “if you want to increase allopregnanolone”. I say this because the Melchangi study showed low allopregnanolone in the CNS of PFS patients. Assuming spinal fluid is accurately reflecting the brain allopregnanolone levels in the PFS group in Melcangi’s study the PFS group has low Allopregnanolone levels in the brain. The thing is though “thisisarealbummer” claims to have had his spinal fluid tested which showed high amounts of allopregnanolone. Thisisarealbummer also said he has high amounts of allopregnanolone in urine. I have high amounts of allopregnanolone in the urine. So maybe there are different variants of PFS and that some have high allopregnanolone and some have low allopregnanolone while the symptoms of both are similar. This theory is further evidenced by the variety of different responses we get from different treatments. Kinda of like how some have low and some have high DHT production while in a “PFS like state”

#38

im aware of that we have low allopregnanolone

i have my eyes kept on Zuranolone aka sage 217 which is basically synthetic allopregnanolone

but i wont be trying it first. its too much of a risk since allo isn’t the root problem for us

it might help some people A LOT

and it might help others A LOT

as for SSRI’s, you couldnt pay me to take them either in regular, high, or low doses

the risks associated are not worth anything for me. id rather bear the pain currently

#39

Thisisarealbummer claims to have high allopregnanolone confirmed by spinal fluid and urine testing

#40

so what? we will never know for sure

#41

Never know what for sure ?
How many have high allopreg and how many people have low allopreg? I think it’s important that we find out if it’s possible

If my high allopreg in my urine is telling me that my body wants to get rid of allopreg I think this is huge. At the very minimum this probable means that I don’t want to increase allopreg.

I also have low preg sulfate which does the exact opposite to the GABAa receptors that allopreg does. So it’s providing me with a path to explore further and making me feel more comfortable about trying bacopa like realbummer did

A couple guys numbness got worse from bacopa. So maybe there is a correlation with those who have high allopreg feeling better on bacopa and those who have low allopreg getting worse on bacopa. If we could make this correlation this would be huge

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What are the best SSRIs to take for PFS?