I have seen numerous posts on this site from people supplementing soy based products. The following article states that soybean isoflavones are potent inhibitors of 5AR, making it just the kind of supplement that we should(n’t) be taking. An experiment with rats has shown that:
Yummie, Merck, here we go with your next product after the FDA takes finasteride off of the market: A new all-natural alternative called “Soyasteride” 
Mix it with some Saw Palmetto and you’ve got a real block-buster…
Wow. Nice find. Thankfully I’ve been avioding anything that said “soy” on the packaging since Fin crash. Back in my gym days someone told me it would raise my e2.
I try to avoid that shit, too… It seems to be in a lot of salad dressings.
Just my personal observation: I began drinking a glass of soy milk daily in 2008, continued to for about a year. This period of time was one of my best years mentally, sexually and physically since I crashed. This could have also been due to exercising regularly and completely cutting alcohol out of my diet during the same period of time. It just doesn’t seem like soy had any detrimental effects for me. Probably not the best idea though, since soy contains phytoestrogens.
Recovery periods are so hard to figure around here. I got back to about 60% around 4 months off Fin. The only thing I can think of is it was following a period of around a month or so of almost complete impotence.
I really don’t dare touch alcohol at all with some of the stories Ive heard. I havnt had a drop since Fin crash. Wished I felt well enough to exercise but I’m totally exhausted after just 6-8 hrs at work. I juggle alot but its just office work. And I usually spend at least one day inside all day just lounging between bed and the computer to recoop.
Yes, this is quite interesting. As we are seeing in many cases that increasing androgens makes things worse (supplementation, orgasm, exercise), it would somehow make sense that reducing them to some degree can make you feel better. I have basically achieved the same by reducing my TRT dosing (feel a lot better on low dose than on high dose). I also know of an other case whose side effects improve with milk thistle, a plant extract which inhibits AR transcription to some degree.
Considering that we have all gotten this problem from reducing cellular androgen levels in the first place, the problem with androgen reducing substances like soy is that they are likely to increase our problems in the long run. I am wondering if the same would apply to milk thistle, whose action is further down in the signaling pathway (transcriptional level). To answer that, we need to understand the mechanism of our problem better.
Is there a website www.soyhelp.com?
Is there a website www.zinchelp.com?
Is there a website www.milkthistlehelp.com?
Is there a website www.nettlerootshelp.com?
No? Then, there is no risk in taking these products.
m_81, please do a search for “soy gynecomastia” or “soy estrogen” and let us know what you learn.
Just because these natural products aren’t known to turn you inhuman like some 5AR inhibitors, doesn’t mean that excessive consumption is completely safe.
Speaking of natural products… anyone willing to give saw palmetto a try?
Hehehe, right - according to the above logic, since there is no sawpalmettohelp.com site out there, you can safely assume that saw palmetto will do no harm. SP Striken, what would you say to that?
soy is an industry waste product successfully marketed as a health food. Only pure, non-GMO fermented Soy can be considered edible/healthy.
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/10/13/soy-controversy-and-health-effects.aspx
Oh wow, my bad. It really seems to increase estrogen (in both males and females). I had done a quick search but didn’t find anything conclusive.
Let me make the concept accessible to everybody: “if you find people on internet who got fucked over by product X, I assume that product X is NOT safe; otherwise, I assume it’s safe”. Therefore, saw palmetto is not safe.
well seeing is believing.
Dubya_B ! Pop some SP 320mg tabs for few weeks and see how you feel.
No thanks, I’m already in bad enough shape and would never knowingly take something that could make matters worse.
I only mentioned saw palmetto to make the point that many natural products are not as risk-free as most people believe.