So 186 up regulated genes in our brain, that’s what the new study says. I can’t help but translate that as we are fucked, how on earth can we fix that.
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Did the rats even have pfs though? 20 days of finasteride? I posted about it here in science section idk really what to make of it.
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Other than get ready to fork over more money for future studies…
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I mean there’s people on this forum that took one pill of finastride and got PFS. I think PFS and side effects while on the drug probably look similar
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Many will question if this is an accurate animal model of pfs…Also some are up in arms over the way the announcement was written up ie…it’s all in your head comment some don’t like the joking tone that was used here…
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It literaly shows that epigenetic modifications occure nonetheless the predisposition of certain individuals and stay persistent beyond the next cell division.
This reinforces the findings of one study I’ve read, regarding a histological examination of the vascular properties of the scrotum which appeared to be changed in every subject.
So Finsteride is certainly perseveringly altering the DNA methylation in all patients (not only in patients that present symptoms).
The assumed MOA of Finsteride (the inhibition of the 5alpha-reductase) is therefore a great oversimplication and the medication is indeed wrongfully available for cosmetic usage.
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I imagine some sort of MRNA vaccine will have to be developed to tell are cells to up regulate or down regulate but every patient will have different genes altered based on the side effects we have. I don’t have cognitive problems so probably it didn’t mutate the genes associated with that, the cure sounds like a pipe dream, I know I’m a downer
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This is why most symptoms do not improve, and there is no point in using supplements. What doesn’t enter my mind is how our organism, despite having several mechanisms for correcting epigenetic problems, cannot correct this. Another thing I don’t understand is that epigenetics is influenced by the environment, and even, when stopping medication, with changes in the environment, epigenetics are permanently altered and continue to act.
The epigenetic change is completely random, I also don’t have this cognitive problem that many people report, but on the other hand I am being strongly affected in my physical structure. A cure for PFS will only happen with genetic engineering and there needs to be some method that tells what is altered in each person, unfortunately.
I don’t believe those are particular “bad” news, I think everyone is aware that we are not in for a quick fix.
To sparkle some hope, there are drugs that regulate DNA methylation levels which are currently used for cancer treatment but they are obviously not altering 186 pieces at a time.
Would be interesting to know, if those affected genes generally have a default state of DNA methylation levels or if there are sort of dynamically changing and don’t have a baseline.
If so, there may be a chance that those increased DNA methylation levels could be restored.
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Well I don’t know enough about the subject to speak intelligently about it…And people who might seem to not weigh in heavily here anymore…And i have not read the full paper yet…I don’t know how many rats they gave 1mg of finasteride to for 20 days?
Did they all show these changes? If not how many did? If they all developed this then it must be something else that leads to a pfs state…Could the genes go back to baseline after time? How Are people who become sicker and sicker with every passing year with more and more disfunction affected?
Even melcangi says this “withdrawal” and words it as does this lead to pfs? With a question mark.
Obviously we don’t know but expect a more prominent reader to break it down in the future…
Also we know that damaged genes and overexpression has already been shown to lead to irregular proteins that are mis shaped in other disease… As far as I am aware gene therapy in the future is the only method to directly interact with this type of thing…but…Idk for sure.
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The DNA is not modified. 171 genes in the brain are upregulated and 15 are downregulated. It’s the gene expression that has changed and that’s epigetic. Our epigenome changes constantly (some of you may have noticed the fluctuations). This research is a confirmation of what we already knew and it shows how widespread the epigenetic alterations are.
I would not be surprised if they found epigenetic alterations in other places in the body. An old person, say 100 years, has excessive overall accumulated epigenetic alterations and it’s called aging. Dr. David Sinclair has been studying how to undo obsolete alterations and has successfully done so on rats. He has lots of ways to do it safely with humans, although the results are not as dramatic as with the rats.
I’ve been doing some of those things myself with positive results, while some supplements he suggests are not doing well with PFS. Do your research.
I did a thread about repairing the epigenome and it has been delisted.
As evidence of epigenetic alterations are building up, I would ask the moderators if they could consider bringing back this thread. It has lots of useful ways to remove past epigenetic alterations that are no longer needed (some are still needed).
There’s hope, lots of people have gotten better. Check the success story compilation. There must be two dozen stories there, most of those way inside the thread. I know of an additional 3 cases that are not documented and I myself am almost over detoxing benzodiazepine and getting back my natural sleep, insomnia being the last of my symptoms.
Don’t let yourself be dragged down. It’s a serious condition and it can be downright debilitating at times but there’s people that did recover. Don’t give up !
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The genes in my whole body are altered. Skin, hair, everywhere it’s not just the brain it’s body wide. Can you please link me to the thread or if you have a copy of it?
Maybe we don’t have to correct all of the genes at one go. Maybe sexually or mentally affected genes can be corrected first.
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It’s difficult to target specific genes. Some research indicate it’s possible to make the body promote such repairs but ultimately it’s the body that chooses what it does.
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Wonder if this is why randy Santmann had hippocampal atrophy on autopsy after his suicide?
Many genes all over the body were altered already from past adaptations to situations we encountered in our lives. What’s different with fin is that the situation was extreme, with the drug attaching itself to specific receptors, and the alteration to balance that made it so the body is not working as it should.
Please PM me for the link.
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@Ozeph, how does this new epigenetic evidence relate to the neurotransmitter solutions posted about before? With amino acids to take when feeling certain ways:
L-Tyrosine:
- Brain fog, Mentally fuzzy, Low energy, Cognition impairment: Concentration, Memory
GABA/Taurine/5-HTP:
- Anxious, Stressed, Tense, Trouble sleeping
5-HTP:
- Irritable, Agitated
Those neurotransmitter precursor/amino acids can help reduce some symptoms or make them worst depending if a particular neurotransmitter is currently deficient or in excess. They are dose dependant and not a cure. That’s a path I took early but I don’t follow that path anymore because it’s not easy to find the proper balance
GABA: Not efficient as it doesn’t pass the brain barrier.
Taurine: Does attach to the GABA receptors and produces a calming effect but it also prevent intercellular oxidation of testosterone in the testicles which results in higher T levels. It’s can make symptoms worst depending on how someone is sensitive to increased androgen. Caution is required.
5 HTP: transforms into serotonin. It can create or fix an imbalance with Dopamine. Important to note: 5-HTP is dangerous if taken with SSRI or St- John’s worth extracts.
L-Dopa: Can create or fix an imbalance with serotonin.
L-Tyrosine: I had good results with that one. It helps with thyroid function and dopamine. It’s also a precursor to adrenaline and nor-adrenaline which could be bad but I didn’t have any problem with it.
I tested those but I found the carnivore/ketogenic diet to produce better results
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I am 100% confident dementia patients will have abnormal gene expression profiles in their brains compared to those with normal brains. The same for patients with brain cancer versus those with healthy brains. I am also confident those with penile cancer will have abnormal gene expression profiles compared to those without penile cancer. The pancreas of a diabetic patient will have an abnormal gene expression compared to those without diabetes. Those who have suffered a heart attack will have different gene expression profiles in their hearts compared to those who never had a heart attack. An obese patient and an emaciated patient will have differences in gene expression. Do you get the hint? There is no good reason to panic about gene expression changes. Gene expression abnormalities happen in every disease state. Come on, folks. This is not unique or exclusive. The way I see it, epigenetics is a red herring. Not trying to be argumentative, just offering a different perspective with critical reasoning behind it.
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