SIBO (Small Bacterial Overgrowth) Stomach Acid, Bile Flow, MMC Dysfunction and more

General Discussion
#1

I found this article interesting. It talks about a whole bunch of things that can cause SIBO. I noticed that many of the causes alot of people on this website are dealing with. Such as:

celiac disease

  • chrons*
  • lyme disease*
    *ehlers danlos *
    hypothyroidism
    low stomach acid
    bile flow and enzyme deficiency
    diverticuli
    IgA deficiency

As we can see from this list, although SIBO can lead to many wide-ranging symptoms throughout the body, it is also the result of specific health concerns. SIBO itself is not the disease; it is the end result. If we simply treat SIBO, we are not addressing the root conditions that allowed SIBO to thrive.

A full treatment plan must address the bacterial overgrowth of the small intestine while also working on the root cause(s) to ensure a complete eradication of SIBO and decrease the chances of recurrence.

#2

Why?

Earlier in your post you recognise any bacterial overgrowth that may or may not be occurring as being a downstream problem.

Surely the correct answer is that we must find the root cause rather than wasting our time talking about this stuff.

#3

Well I think that it’s the cause of our on going suffering and inability to return to “homeostasis”.

Why? It seems like common sense to go after the root cause of something in order to eradicate it “permanently” We have seen many people here get better when focussing on their diet/gut health. I believe once we develop something like sibo for whatever reason. Things can go south pretty quickly and in different directions for each individual. I have found gut dysbiosis-> inflammation causing leaky gut, then for example one gets autoimmune problems. The thyroid and adrenals get stressed over time and “wear out”. Viruses can reactivate and thrive in these conditions as well.

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#4

Well, I just posted this elsewhere. Here the cause for SIBO is Accutane.
They also chose only female patients to rule out the following,

Exclusion criteria: Male patients were not included because gender
may influence small gut absorption, dysbiosis, tobacco and alcohol
abuse, immunity and Body Mass Index.

Severe acne is mainly caused by Propionibacterium acnes (PA) and is sometime treated with isotretinoin. Propionibacterium species may alter
intestinal mucosa and isotretinoin may induce mucosal side-effects. We investigated whether severe acne (treated or not with isotretinoin) is
associated with dysbiosis and its consequences.

^So right here I am looking at this differently based on what I have posted in my other thread.
Maybe propionate and or propionibacterium as an intestinal regulator.
Then you could maybe take this a step further looking at immunity and fat metabolism.

Btw, I have never been able to put on body weight or fat since Accutane.

Group 2 (isotretinoin) has a lower body weight (56.9 ± 9.9 versus 61.1 ± 15 kg; p<0.05) and Body Mass Index (20.84 ± 3.8 versus 22.85 ± 5.2; p<0.05)
than the control group (despite being younger (40 ± 10 years versus 50 ± 16; p<0.05).

Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth (SIBO) is due to bacterial
proliferation in the jejunum. These bacteria are consuming unabsorbed
disaccharides because of mucosal enzymatic deficiencies or excessive
intakes of sweetened food. Drug-induced mucosal atrophy belongs to the long list of possible etiologies. SIBO is associated with non-severe
complains like diarrhoea or constipation, bloating, abdominal pain
and sometimes with severe malabsorption and its consequences (e.g.
anaemia, Vitamin D or unsaturated lipid acids deficiency, fatigue,
decreased immunity) [1-3].

Propionibacterium
species may adhere to intestinal mucosa [31]. They secrete
hyaluronidase and can alter intestinal mucosa

^just like on the skin, Accutane may create an environment to eradicate propionibacterium to a degree that it doesn’t come back.

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#5

Wanted to add to this, once again im already quickly having doubts about propionibacterium as a probiotic. It has taken cycling or coming off and going back on this a few times to realize this. Im going to turn my sole attention on retinoic acid metabolism now. Like the vitamin d study I recently posted, its metabolism to its active form could be predicated by select bacterial colonization.

Vitamin A and Retinoic Acid Exhibit Protective Effects on Necrotizing Enterocolitis by Regulating Intestinal Flora and Enhancing the Intestinal Epithelial Barrier

These results suggest that VA may regulate intestinal flora, alleviate inflammatory reactions, and enhance the intestinal epithelial barrier in NEC. Thus, VA may be an effective drug for providing protection against NEC in newborns.

Keywords: Inflammatory factors; Microbial communities; Necrotizing enterocolitis; Retinoic acid; Tight junction proteins; Vitamin A.

Retinoic Acid Improves Incidence and Severity of Necrotizing Enterocolitis by Lymphocyte Balance Restitution and Repopulation of Lgr5+ Intestinal Stem Cells


These findings raise the exciting possibility that dietary manipulations could prevent and treat NEC by modulating lymphocyte balance and the ISC pool within the newborn small intestine.

Keywords: necrotizing enterocolitis, intestinal stem cells, T lymphocyte, retinoic acid, regulatory T cells, Th17 cells

I use NEC as an example because its complications can become SIBO, short bowel syndrome, stricture like gastrointestinal dysmotility, and a slew of other serious issues that could also lead to systemic inflammation and even affect blood flow.

#6

Accutane didnt make me thin but I think lower body temp could turn the tables to obesity in malnutrition sense.

I think some people say hard to gain after accutane, then get fatter years later.

#7

I am really spinning my wheels with this one.
Taking this securil probiotic, which is a combination of two different propionibacterium strains, it doesn’t take long to start to feel some pretty intense aggression.
I mean I feel like grunting or growling, throwing a chair across the yard, flexing.
Seriously.
It can be too much though, its too intense and not really a good feeling but feeling kind of out of control.
Anyone else get a sense of this yet thats been taking this probiotic?
@Cbrandel

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#8

Can’t say I did.

I feel like it improved my sleep quite substantially and also helped normalize my WC visits. I took 4 caps per day (2 morning, 2 evening per instructions on the package). I kind of liked it and might buy another package actually.

Your reaction sounds kinda cool though, PFS really made me lose my aggression. If you can control aggression you can get a lot of stuff done.

Keep us update if you keep having this feeling. Make sure so keep it under check though :slightly_smiling_face:.

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#9

Jeez…do I miss it.

#10

I’ve noticed this too. Definitely more productive since getting PFS.

#11

Idk something is really helping and it is not always obvious. I feel it right now, it’s a type of breathability. I feel it in my eyes and head. Maybe increased oxygen. I remember when I was younger thinking my head felt heavy, not light open and airy, if that makes sense. It was maybe a type of inflammation.

It’s real simple it’s either the securil or align probiotic that’s doing this. Align would be based on it’s retinoic acid metabolism.

Besides it’s propionate production, securil could be a very potent source of vitamin k/k2

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#12

idk, I think I might recommend Align or whatever its called outside the states before securil.
Has anyone tried the higher dosage align or bifido longum 35624 thats only available in the US and maybe Canada?
In Europe I believe its only sold at the 1 billion dosage per pill and its expensive. In the states you can get a 5 billion cfu dosage per pill.
What am I looking at with this?
Mainly raldh2 increased expression which might lead to increased retinoic acid production in the gut.
Then stem cell renewal and tlr2 activation.
If anyone recalls the vit d study, this is the exact same concept or school of thought except with vit a.
Bacteria that increases vit a metabolism.

You could possibly look at increased raldh2 expression and retinoic acid production that could lead to increased masculinisation that might work in tandem with androgens. Keep in mind there is little indication that PFS is related to androgen insensitivity syndrome.