another demethylizer - annurca apples - but they appear to only grow in italy…
One more… and its available over the counter. Sodium Butyrate.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17970072
wikipedia
and one more bonus, it may increase muscle size:
sciencedirect.com/science?_o … 3836c13856
available here: fubaohealthstore.com/E-Lyte- … -caps.html
No one else has commented on this thread in awhile… no one else is intrigued by the methylation concept?
The hyper-methylation theory is definitely one of the more exciting theories, seems to tick all the boxes. It’s a shame that it is such a difficult thing to get tested, we have very little chance of that without the backing of an epigeneticist i fear.
I was wondering is it safe to be using something that will de-methylate everything? That is, is hypo-methylation not just as bad as hyper-methylation? i mean not trying to spread panic but what if we activate a gene that causes cancer?
The Sodium Butyrate is interesting, what i gathered from the article that you posted is that it up-regulates the gene expression of the androgen receptor, is this correct? Is this the same thing as making the androgen receptor more sensitive or responsive to androgens?
Also it seems compounds found in green tea can demethylate.
I dont beleive hypo-methylation can cause cancer, because it is hypermethylation that causes repression of gene expression (tumor-suppressing genes in the cancer model) In addition, there are some studies I have read indicating that chinese men have exceptionally low rates of prostate cancer, but there rates increase greatly within 5 years after moving to the united states - supposedly due to dietary changes (no more green tea, perhaps) which may lead to more methylation.
From what i understand, the androgen receptor is still “sensitive” to androgens, it simply cannot express its actions because that gene may be silenced… like it knows what it needs to do, but cant make the action happen.
You are right, however, that we may not be able to test without the attention of a epigeneticist - leaving us only, perhaps, to try these agents on our own.
I am intrigued by the concept but frankly don’t understand it. How would this process work in terms of increasing muscle size, restoring sexual function etc? It can’t just be that eating apples can somehow cure this. What would be the ultimate aim, and if the AR signal was unsilenced would we still require some form of TRT?
Is this sodium butyrate worth a go? How long would you have to use it for…weeks, months, years?
Could it make me worse in anyway?
Is anyone on this already?
I will run this after i see a couple more doctors and have some more tests and nothing shows up.
In the mean time im going to start pumping myself full of green tea and see what happens.
Also maybe one of the italian members can suck down a few of these magic apples and let us know(the board) of any effects.
It’s worth a go and won’t due any bad harm…I’m going to try it…
What does this mean? Good or Bad?
Also if anyone is to try this Sodium Butyrate, what dosage should be used and for how long?
I starting off with 1/2 recommended serving size which is 3 pills per day
1 in the morning
1 in afternoon
1 in evening after each meal.
‘http://www.fubaohealthstore.com/E-Lyte- … -caps.html’
This link seems to be ‘Forbidden’, any other way of getting there?
looks like the online store has closed.
Well, has anyone managed to get hold of this magic potion ‘sodium butyrate’ ?
Its not a magic potion. It doesnt work, I’ve tried it.
This is an important thread and needs more discussion.
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/94/5/384.full
5-aza-2`-deoxycytidine = Decitabine (Dacogen) a commercially available hypomethylating agent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decitabine
I think this looks very promising?
I think this is very promising, the thing is; we need to find someway of testing this theory… otherwise we can’t be certain of anything.
I don’t think we can make assumptions about whether this treatment plan will work without either:
- testing these demethylating agents on ourselves thoroughly i.e. at a sufficient dosage and for a substantial period of time, whilst ensuring that other factors like hormones are normal.
or
- finding some evidence that our DNA has been hypermethylated as a result of finasteride use.
Ideally i’d prefer the latter.
how long did you use? if you did not get any positive effect did you get any negative effects?
if yes , what are these effects.
sps
http://www.seqwright.com/clinicaltrialservices/methylationanalysis.html
This company seems to offer such a service. Not sure if it is really the type of thing we need considering awor stated that such a test was not off the shelf and would first need to be itself constructed by scientists from the appropriate field and cost $$$.
I also believe any success anyone here can make in rectifying epigenetic changes would itself garner a great deal of notice from scientist working in that area, leading to greater hope for all of us, and therefore such testing being available.
As a result the only option left, as you stated is,
Prehaps using the same routine used for decatibine as for procaine? http://www.drugs.com/ppa/decitabine.html
Feel free to email them for quote if you want oscar.
Hey guys, so recently I had some blood tests done, and among these, due to a mistake by a lab tech, folate was tested. Now to my surprise, this came back high, while my FSH, LH, thyroid stimulating hormone, prolactin, and total and free testosterone are all normal (exact numbers hopefully coming in a couple weeks when I visit the doctor again, will post in profile). So I was wondering what this could mean, and I came upon this paper, viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3901&hilit=folate . The problem of course is proving the issue. If enough of us get our folate levels checked and show abnormal levels, combined with such papers, it should help to further raise an eye on methylation possibly being behind our issue. So I believe folate should be added to the list of things to be tested and be made a priority, as it might prove to shed some significant light here.
my folate 30.7(9-45)
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