Dannyfc- yeah and I’m sure lower legs/shins are thinner? Especially near the foot? Same with lower part of arms near wrists. It’s classic Adrenal disorder, pseduo Cushing’s syndrome which Jacobs did say so I give him some credit.
Btw- the good news is adrenal disorders and symptoms are generally reversible. Thin skin, thin lower arms / legs, sparse hair on lower legs, arms. Etc
I’ve already seen improvements in sleep, sexual symptoms, digestion , skin flushing, GERD , so I remain hopeful
what is the result of ACTH stim tests? did you feel worse after the test? I guess you did.
My basal cortisol was low, and raised only 150 nmol/L after ACTH injection. Criteria for healthy adrenals is for cortisol to double and/or increase by at least 200 nmol/L.
Don’t remember feeling especially different after the test, but I was feeling pretty bad at the time anyway.
Mhmm well my wrists are skinny, but definitely still have bulk on my legs.
Bulk on lower parts of legs too? Do you have trouble sitting on hard surfaces? Thin skin?
The adrenal glands are definitely involved. I recently checked cortisol in saliva, and it was 6 nmol/l 09.00 AM (range 3.5 - 27 nmol/l) and 6 nmol/l 11.00 PM (range <6 nmol/l). What’s interesting here, besides that the free cortisol level was low in the morning and high in the evening, is that it didn’t have a circadian rhythm. Also, I’ve experimented with dexamethasone for a week, and woke up with a morning erection most of the days… It caused symptoms of gynecomastia to subside too, so I’m sure that the adrenal glands are responsible for elevated levels of estrogens. The latest PFS study showed that pregnenolone and estradiol were significantly elevated in PFS subjects. Considering that negative feedback is controlled by cortisol, it’s likely that free cortisol deficiency is involved.
press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1 … .3.8077369
I suggest to do google to find a case where someone suffering from sides after using Fin/Accutane/SP recovered after kidney transplant.
what do you think about this
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1398&p=9917&hilit=friend#p9917
I have a true story to tell. It is about my father inlaw friend, he is
64 years old and have dysfunctional kidney. So early this year (January)
he went to China and had a surgery (kidney transplant). After three(3)
months he told my father inlaw that he started to have morning erection
again (strong as if in his 20’s) and that his libido has increase so much
and that he feel energetic. So in August this year the 64 old man married a 40 years old widow.
How do you explain the low levels of neurosteroids?
That’s interesting, and probably possible. However, I don’t believe that the adrenal glands are damaged.
Maybe I should chip in this time but i really don’t want to start arguing with anyone alright. I just drop what I’ve learned so far. You must do the small brunt of research work yourselves on the stuff i mention, I have nothing to gain from investing myself into forum wars and strangers. You know, not to be hostile but you know, heads up. I ain’t takin no poop.
You guys are on the right track, this is one of the major conditions we get post-crash. I don’t usually make claims like these but -JN-, John Coleman, solonjk, reason (all recovered people, all save solonjk treated AF) me have had adrenal insufficiency/fatigue. Most of my brainfog apathy etc problems are fixed whenever I treat adrenals.
The best ways to test for adrenal function AFAIK are cortisol saliva test 24h and pupil dilating test with a flashlight (more of an indicating test than accurate, I didn’t test especially strong but in my case treating it helps me the best).
But there is another way: Order bovine adrenal gland extract from Iherb and take it especially when you are in brainfog episode. If it clears then it’s pr much clear as a day you have adrenal insufficiency.
Best ways to treat, well. Adrenals and thyroid are pretty much married so you want to treat both at the same time ideally.
Sounds difficult but you want to
- stop eating grains/gluten and milk products (gluten is especially linked anecdotally to Hashimotos/thyroid problems, see Stop the Thyroid Madness website for more info if you want the anecdotes)
- get Armour thyroid or Lithiothyronin (T3) to treat both adrenals and hypothyroidism. Look into Paul Robinson’s Circadiant T3 method (which is crudely put: take the first dose 1h before usually waking time, then immidiately go to sleep again).
- or instead look into the methylation topic here in Theories section and start fixing it instead (more on that below).
I think I’ve heard of supplementing physiological doses of DHEA/pregnelone etc. but it’s more of a band-aid/slow support. Even the adrenal extract I mentioned is more of a help to the episodes. You might not want to supplement these things for life.
The toxin/gut side of things is no joke dudes. There’s clear scientific data that methylation problems are linked to thyroid problems, the original research/treatment protocol fixed many CFS patient’s thyroid problems. Methylation problems ARE mainly toxin/heavy metal/environmental pollution accumulation.
Don’t get into this stuff for now if it’s complicated, just choose between Adrenal treatment or Methylation protocol and start there.
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gefinauser
you are right.
how much is your Cortisol in blood? is it high or low? I see here many have higher or high normal. Mine is high normal too. I feel my symptoms are very much like cushing’s patient( big pot belly, thin legs, arms, little body hair etc)if you see pictures of dogs with cushings, they look like us. They do get pot belly and no body hair.click here
tinyurl.com/p8wrqyr
Now my question is why many of us feel better on isocort despite high cortisol? Maybe external cortisol slows down our own body production? I am reading on curezone about this. People are saying isocort brings your own cortisol down.
You do realise you’ve just linked to pictures of dogs?
All these so called signs of cushings certain posters keep referring to are symptoms of androgen deprivation. prostate-cancer.org/the-androgen … -syndrome/
Luckfax
I am not saying Adeprivation may not the cause. we are look at mechanism, what organ has got damaged or the whole body. this study you posted does not rule in/out adrenal
I mean to say after the damage has been done there is no point to discuss the cause.Now we need to investigate where damage has been done and what can be done to repair it now.
Never mind the discussion on the cause, I agree that we always should focus on the effect in fighting the symptons. If you can get through my big posts then you probably got what it takes to recover LOL.
Those in the known always says that taking blood cortisol is insufficient, due to different readings than what cortisol you got going on at the moment (this is just from the top of my head). From saliva is the accurate/correct way to go. The pattern should be always this: a spike in the moment you wake up (actually an hour before you wake up) and then slowly declining as the day goes on. Anything else at any time of the day and you got a problem.
I don’t know how many of us are actually using Isocort here in PH, I haven’t searched on that…
but my bet on the answer is on that “fatigue” side of things - supplying the substance the adrenals are made from relieves the stress placed on it. That’s at least how it feels for me when I take the pill, not that it’s what is technically actually going on. Since I don’t know if i’m actually supplying cortisol (at least in noticable amounts), I never take cortex on daily basis.
I do not have Cortisol tests on myself. Saliva tests costs about 350 euros in my country (a single one) and i’d have to pay that from my own pocket, plus I need a doctors prescription. No, I deducted with my own symptons. When I initially crashed, i kept losing all my energy to brainfog/crashed badly for roughly 11 hours - I read about adrenal gland problems so I stopped drinking green tea and coffee. Miraculously, the next day I was brainfog free/had most of my energies. However, days following that day I quickly fell into the constant brainfog problems you are familiar with.
2 years later, the pupil flashlight test came out (done by my doctor who knows this stuff as well) that I had slight dysfunction but my well-being after on adrenal cortex indicates that it goes way deeper/is much serious than the indications.
Now that I’m quite well recovered in adrenal’s (maybe 50% recovered), I actually had a day or two when drinking coffee actually gave me back my old self before finast, full mental clarity and power of imagination, the full monty - this, of course, followed by brainfog and listnessness as the adrenals got stressed from extra effort. Just saying this to show remarkable adrenals are.
The only way I can recover from adrenal stress so far is by
- ALWAYS relaxing - I don’t go to gym until I recover a bit more
- always working on that mental stress (damn, you would never think mental stress/worrying is physical but I have become a believer after working with my adrenal symptons for so long…),
- never sprinting or hurrying everywhere (i get adrenal-stressed and brainfogged for some hours after a sprint),
- avoiding coffee or other stimulants like chocolate,
- avoiding foods that cause stress to me like grains…
Basically, it’s never anything that pushes or stimulates me more.
To put it simply: Any brainfog, apathy, anxiety, almost whatever i got going mentally - either affected by
*L-tyrosine (turns to… dopamine. Remember progesterone, dopamine results for us. Vitamin D is REQUIRED to make more dopamine… and dopamine plays a large part in everything.)
*or adrenal cortex
I have not tried progesterone or pregnelone yet and i don’t know if I will. I might recover without.
I use this product at times (not all the time! as that just gets you used to endogenous supply of cortisol, i suppose) iherb.com/Thorne-Research-Ad … =null&ic=1
–
That being said… spstriken, I know you got some balls and curious mind… If you are serious about recovering, maybe you should try treating this, especially if you got brainfod/apahty/no drive still? If you feel like it’s too much then just keep a lid on it and give it some time… some times take some L-tyrosine (powder form without anything else, order from Iherb or similiar) to get over brainfog and all those TRESSHOLD problems (you know, like “reading or understand this is too much” or “i just don’t have it in me to do this” or “it’s all too much” etc). Baby steps at a time.
Like i said in first post:
*Look into and buy Recovering with T3 from amazon. Find a doctor that will prescribe you with T3 (i think it’s best to go with this than Armour Thyroid). Try doing the Circadian Method, written in that book with that T3. Read more about adrenal problems from Stop the Thyroid Madness or from -JN-'s topic. When you get fogged, supply with either L-tyrosine or adrenal cortex.
*Other route is to try methylation protocol here in the theories section. tl;dr: methylation problems have a lot to do with hypothyroidism, hypot = adrenal problems as well, we got a strong history with methylation problems so far (whoever here got their methylation panel analyzed).
If you start these steps then you probably got the determination to see your recovery through… I know you can do it.
I think I’ve said everything. I got even more interesting experiences I can’t recall from the top of my mind but i’m pretty sure they are all just to demonstrate the importance of adrenals - treating adrenals is equally important step when treating hypothyroidism as well. Anything more is maybe unnecessary, I’m only motivated by trying to get people help themselves and this is already pushing it a lot (since i can’t know how many people here actually try to actively recover themselves). I’m starting to understand the people who avoid the forum for the sake of focusing on their newfound determination or their recovered life. wish you the best on your road to recovery.
thanks for your time and advice.
it looks like your cortisol remains the same 24 hours.is it maybe due poor metabolism of Cortisol? just like for some fre T is low but total T is high?
it looks like your cortisol remains the same 24 hours.is it maybe due poor metabolism of Cortisol? just like for some fre T is low but total T is high?
My blood cortisol is always high, don’t know about salivary level yet.
I don’t know. I think that free cortisol is too low, and that the brain only makes the problem worse by attempting to increase cortisol, due to a negative ratio between adrenal androgens and cortisol. The androgens aromtatizes, and it leads to more CBG, which probably means less free cortisol, or unchanged at best. Since aromatase inhibitors only gives us temporary relief, it’s likely that this is a consequence. After all, finasteride has been shown to blunt the cortisol response to ACTH - and that’s probably the root cause.
Anyway, something is definitely wrong when the cortisol level doesn’t have a circadian rhythm, and I’m going to get to the bottom of this. Interestingly, several people have reported a 17-OH-Progesterone level above the normal range, which indicates non-classic CAH due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency. We may have had a slight deficiency (non-symptomatic), that finasteride changed into a real problem, by interfering with the amount of free cortisol through elevation of estradiol.
I need to add that my serum cortisol has been mid- to high range. I haven’t checked free cortisol before now.