Prostatitis treatment as a novel insight into Finasteride related problems

hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25823

I would like to let you know that prostatitis issue post finasteride is very serious. More and more people become aware of this condition and they neglect the intensity of this disease.
We are not talking about a hypertrophy of the prostate but of an extensive swift in the prostates ability to work functionally after its immunity is compromised due to the deleterious effects of finasteride.

It would be really good if we could gather all ultrasounds (even if not done transrectally which is the ideal) and related tests that reveal changes in terms of stones, calcifications, scar tissue and offcourse inflammatori loci.

I have received a few at my email but more is needed and i see that many ppl find out about their prostate being affected shortly after discontinuing finasteride.

pm me so i send you my email to receive ultrasounds

thanks

api.ning.com/files/lzuhINO5JDEM4MzjPqlgpuibQewOlsvIENbeocdNGgsuvLufCsaqz-jfX2w7XE70gNr7qBEurXVFMz3moXdkfdRpa*poSD/MassageAntibiotics.pdf

As you may understand from reading the above prostate massage can help a good percentage of patients recover from their symptoms, for some this can be permanent and reach complete resolution of their condition. For others it could be a partial relief or more/stronger massages may be needed. For others though it may not help a lot and additional measures should be taken, like use of bioflavonoids or drugs to relax the area.
In my particular case, i went for just 2 massages last week and immediately (and without antibiotics this time) i felt better to the point of regaining full erection strength, have multiple nighttime erections and morning ones. (and without the use of damiana that i had incorporated lately).

This lasted until i istarted on antibiotics the day after the second massage!!! its very strange but i have come to this conclusion. Antibiotics although helping initially if not used properly may cause very resistant strains to emerge, and on top of that they may depress your local immunity to the point that they become more damaging than assisting.

It was a risk for me to do deep prostate massages without abx but seeing that this helped me i will rego and do 10-15 sessions to see where i get to. I have solved the libido and orgasm equation with the use of damiana, offcourse i have to use it every time to get max benefits, but the low-level albeit remaining from last years treatment prostatic inflammation (although improved at least 50% with better erectile function and lessened testicular pain/heat and inability to hold an erection) hinders me from enjoying maximum results. I am pain free but my testicles bother me some times still and keep atrophying.

Yet in us post-finasteride users, the question of how much 5arII converting tissue affected through atrophy and concomitant inflammation of the prostate is another issue. It is probably the reason why bioflavonoids which block partially conversion to both dht and e2 don’t help in contrast to regular prostatitis patients that see great benefit from quercetin.

Thats the difficult part in solving this whole ordeal. If the massages on their own can systematically drain out the inflammation and the immune system can regain at least somewhat its functionality locally in the areas affected then a rise in dht levels should be expected through recovering more and more 5-ar II converting ability.

It is a matter of trial and error for each and everyone of us. Everyone has to find their own solution to this problem, whether antibiotics are needed, or not, in any case prostate massage is a very good way to deal with the inflammation and damiana very good to boost libido and blood circulation down there.

I am sorry it is a comlicated fix but it is the best i have reached to, till today and cannot be explained otherwise. I am eager to have sex every day since using damiana and i believe our problems are fixable to a great extend nowadays.
One just has to have patience and insist on looking for an individual cure, as long as it has some logic

I am sorry i have to disagree DHT is very bad for an inflammed prostate. It is not the lack of dht that causes problems it is the overall effect of finasteride on the prostate structure that has made your organs down there vulnerable. Once an inflammation sets in then dht will only propagate it further. So will testosterone but due to its mixed anti-inflammatory/inflammatory effect depending on tissues it is not that bad as dht. DHT though is a killer and i have been consistently adviced against it by both dr. Hertoghe and other good endocrinologists. I tried it though both injection, and cream on my body and testicles. In a matter of hours the very bad symptoms in pelvic area increased.

In general hormones won’t help you once you have an inflammation, not even cortisol will, probably for some days, then rise of other inflammatory parameters and expulsion of toxins from bacteria will render cortisol useless. Dexamethasone also produces mixed results.

Stay away from hormones until your prostate is in good health, this is my advice and its also an advice i was given by too many doctors which offcourse i didn’t take for serious in the beginning when we where all too naive to understand what finasteride does. The effect is in multiple factors invovling your urogenital tract.
If one reads research on the proteins finasteride inhibits in the urogenital tract, he will easily identify a series of parameters, literally building blocks of local immunity which are shut down completely.

Dealing with the inflammation is the major player in recovering and seeing that may people don’t understand that still is sad, we have gone through hormones again and again with mixed to bad results.
I guess some will have to find out the hard way.

That sounds absolutely correct based on my own experience:

Full recovery for 7 days using Finasteride

Strange prostate symptoms and dark/ night blindness using Proviron (DHT)

I’ve quitted fin 7 years ago and for all this time (every day) I had an inflammed prostate, with low flow, frequent urination, low libido but NO ED. Tried many things, also trigger points massages, but around the prostate (stanford protocol), but nothing is useful. Doctors wants to operate me for a bladder neck sclerosis (TUIP).

What type of massages are you talking about solonjk? Is something that you can do by your own? Prostate massages were used in past, nowadays urologists discourage this practice.

I went to see Dr Georgiadis last month in Kos. I went to see if there was any connection between the prostate and my muscle wasting. So I booked a 2 week holiday not knowing if I was going to stay for treatment or not.

We did the TRUS and he told me I was in the 1st stage of inflammation of chronic prostatitis, he wasn’t sure how many years it had been there, but that this had not spread to the urethra. The urine test showed that I was fully emptying the bladder on peeing. As I had no obvious symptoms of prostatitis and he told me that this was not the cause of my muscle wasting I decided not to go for the treatment.
When I pressed him he said maybe finasteride had affected the androgen receptors in the muscle, but that was not his area of expertise. He said that curing prostatits had increased energy levels in men, but a lack of energy is not my problem.
I paid him the 250Euros and just enjoyed the holiday.

He did mention he had a problem treating foreigners as naturally they have difficulties in following the full treatment routine of stayin for a month and then going numerous times to Athens for the following months.

Anyway that’s one area I have ruled out in my quest for a solution. Nice place Kos though!

Well there’s a surprise!

Isn’t it? Considering he arrived at the same diagnosis for countless others via a few emails from the other side of the globe.

can we please lock this bogus, useless thread?

spstriken
Quite a few guys tried the prostate massage and anti-biotic combo treatment.
To my knowledge, the treatment has not fully cured any case of Post Finasteride Syndrome.

Solonjk is in the process of sending some of the prostate ultrasound images and bloodwork to a university.
Hopefully this will prove useful and any info will be posted on this forum, via a separate thread.

I think this thread has reached a dead end though.

Im doing steadily allright as a matter of fact
thats why i didn’t reply for so long
powerful massages (done with a wand) twice per week and damiana every night

as soon as my prostate is cleared of all the infectious fluid
its like a new me. this lasts for 2-3 days.
If i don’t smoke drink alcohol or coffee i can go along with once every week massage

and as time goes by it seems that the fluid becomes clearer and clearer
antibiotics are of no use any more i m finished using them

damiana restores sexuality big time (libido/erection etc etc) i don’t go out when i smoke it because of fear of raping every woman i see in the street.

allready on it for 3 months
only backdraw a bit addictive and gives you some small headache if done too much
it could be considered something like a low grade stimulant
anyways

P.S.
i wanted to sent more ultrasounds i only managed to gather just a few
i guess people will be waiting on some gene therapy
i cannot do anything without the ultrasounds
it would be useful to state the degree of prostatic mess post finasteride
but without help…

you are a lucky man … i have tried liquid damiana in heavy doses from whole foods and have not felt even a fraction of what you are feeling

i know
i didn’t want the smoking version too
but it stroke just by luck
my only problem remains the stupid small testicle atrophy
it continuous albeit very very slowly
offcourse massaging the prostate halts it temporarily
then a couple days later if feel slight pains in the testicles again
another massage and there you go
damiana in between helps a lot
i wish i could find something better
but up to now
its the only thing i could get too
alcohol makes me worse but not all forms
as a matter of fact white wine helps a lot
strong alcohol though is bad
i can feel it
and too much smoking also very bad

get your stupid prostate out, end of problems.

you have something with my prostate from day one
i guess its very irritating to see others trying
to find something that works
while you have tried the wrong stuff
homeopathy for example
how many conditions have you baptized yourself with

post saw palmetto usage?
i understand it has tormented your life
but
its not my fault
im ok with my problems
as you reckon i don’t bother anymore
very few if minute issues remaining
do something for your self
you don’t have multiple sclerosis
nor the other dozens of conditions described
by your obsessive nature in forums
here and there
if i start counting them
i will end up in a delirium
every month something different
make up your mind
what has a herb done to you afterall
maybe you had some irregularity to start with??

from ABC homeopathy forums
someone with the name sawpalmetto that writes just like you states

ā€œI don’t visit this forum any more.I just got email hence the reason to respond.
I have no good news.I have developed some signs of Multiple Sclerosis. I think Saw palmetto damaged my Nervous system. I have
1-blurry vision and double vision on my right Eye,Optic neuritis?
2-headache in my half head
3-My body below my belly button has become numb.
4-I have pain and burning feelings in finger tips.
5-get swelling in my toes.
6-can not hold my urine,especially during night.
I spend a lot of time on computer trying to find cure for my symptoms.
I will talk to my Dr and possibly will go for neurology tests and then MRI.
I am trying different vitimins, especially vit D3 which give temporary relief.
Pleas, please tell every body to stay away from Saw Palmetto . It is a poison. It may paralyze you for the rest of your lifeā€

in the course of your two year responses in that forum you have written that you have been affected by at least 4 or 5 different medical conditions equivalent in intensity to multiple sclerosis albeit quite different in diagnostic criteria and symptomatology
and i want to ask you clearly
are you completely mad? or have you gone mad through all this ordeal?

or maybe you are just exaggerating out of shear despair?

don’t make me go back and search your unstable medical problems
you opt to go for MRIs and try dangerous poisons used in homeopathy instead of taking a stupid as you call it prostate exam
just because you are against examining your prostate
probably

but you cannot hold on your urine
…
man you are a lunatic
its clear

try belladonna
maybe this helps
just drink the whole bottle
don’t waste time

previous post of user sawpalmetto in ABC homeopathy forums

"[i]thanks all who are reading my posts especially Dr.David, Dr.Nawaz and other homoeo path.
Now picture is becoming more and more clear to me. It looks Saw Palmetto has damaged my liver. please read and I have 90% of the symptoms from the list.
I don’t drink but people who drink told me that after Saw palmetto they can not tolerate alcohol and their problems increase many folds after alcohol consumption.
Dear homeopaths if my liver has damaged then what remedies should I take. I saw few like nux vomica, liqopodium, byonica etc. Please advise me. I don’t think I can handle this all for long.
May God bless all of you.

Generalized Liver Problems Signs and Symptoms
The above mentioned liver problems symptoms were related to some or the other liver disorder or disease. The following list contains some of the generalized liver problems and symptoms that indicate liver disorder:
Headaches
Continuously itchy skin
Dark urine
Bloody or tar colored stool
Nausea
Digestion problems
Loss of appetite
Coated tongue
Bad breath
Excessive sweating
Bad body odor
Dark circles under the eyes
Red, swollen eyes
Brown spots or blemishes on skin
Excessive facial blood vessels
Spider-like blood vessels seen under the skin
Enlarged spleen and liver
Chills
Enlarged gall bladder
Blood sugar problems
Constipation
Vomiting
Intolerance to alcohol
Depression
Mood swings
Poor concentration
Sugar cravings
Hypoglycemia
High blood pressure due to clogged arteries
Pot belly
I have all except bloody sotool and excessive thrist.
Now see what Spalmetto can do. I got all the problems described below.
As against the claims of saw palmetto promoters, many of its users have reported some noteworthy side effects. Saw palmetto has not been approved by the FDA as a medicine to treat any kind of disease. The FDA (Food and Drug Administration) has also not tested it to find out its safety and effectiveness. So, many of the saw palmetto berry side effects as well as benefits have not been proven. But, as reported by the users of saw palmetto extract, it can cause headache, stomach pain, bad breath, and diarrhea or constipation. Many individuals have also experienced vomiting and nausea after taking saw palmetto supplements.

Allergic reactions like itching, skin rashes, tongue inflammation, and breathing problems may be experienced by individuals allergic to this herb. Liver damage, jaundice and stomach ulcer are among the less common but severe side effects of saw palmetto extract. Apart from these, it may increase the bleeding risk in individuals with blood clotting or bleeding disorders. Important contardictory results have been witnessed regarding saw palmetto’s effect in stimulating the sex drive. It has been observed that, as against the popularity of saw palmetto as an aphrodisiac herb, the use of its extract has been reported to produce erectile dysfunction and impotency in some individuals. Besides these, the compound beta-sitosterol found in saw palmetto extract is similar to cholesterol, and so, a rise in its level can increase severity of heart diseases, especially among individuals who already have suffered from heart attacks.

In addition to these side effects, saw palmetto can produce several other complications for women, especially if they are taking birth control pills and estrogen replacement medications. One of the most common saw palmetto side effects for women is weight gain, as has been reported by many women who have used it for breast enlargement. Men using testosterone or any other type of anabolic steroid should also avoid the use of saw palmetto without consulting an expert or physician.

To sum up, saw palmetto extract should be taken only under the guidance of a physician or expert health practitioner in order to minimize the risk or side effects. Saw palmetto side effects, whether major or minor, should also be immediately reported and consulted with a physician. This herbal extract is best avoided by individuals with liver disease, asthma or other breathing disorders, stomach ulcer and heart diseases."
[/i]

!!!
!!! THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE YOU !!!
!!!
!!! ASTONISHED !!!
!!! YOU ARE A LIVING MIRACLE !!!

Solonjk, please – enough of the trash talking and arguing between users, especially considering your history on the forum with deleting all your posts and this controversial prostatitis thread/doctor in Greece.

There are rules on this forum, we are trying to maintain a professional discussion level. If you cannot do this or would prefer to engage in flame wars, do not post.

and last but not least

you state clearly in your initial posts that you had prostatitis
and all the symptoms where there besides erection issues

but today you say you are cured from prostatitis (like i read in one of your previous posts here)- offcourse no living person has ever managed to cure himself of prostatitis but you insist and i can bring back your posts

but let us read in deep devotion

again from ABC FORUMS homeopathy

[i]thank you so much on making comments, this is the first time that some body touched my heart. I have seen here advices of many people, while I am grateful that they spent time on reading my posts, but I could not agree with them. The reason? I think a lot of people see my symptoms as temporary that will go away easily but it looks they have got deep roots in my body.
what I have concluded from your post is that I was predisposed to this condition and saw palmetto just acted as a trigger if this is what you mean,then let me please give you more detail so that you have more clear picture about me. here is the detail.

1-never drank or smoked all my life. I loved exercise, walk all the time, you can say I was exercise maniac.
2-all my life I had weak urine stream, burning in my urine, all the time (24x7) painful errections. used to urinate every 2-3 hours. from my adulthood till my marriage never had more than two days without wet dreams,even some times many days in a row with wet dream. After marriage my wet dream did not stop. I always had unsatisfiable sex drive. My penis was large and always semi errected, sticking out.It was very embrassing for me at my work and in public gatherings. I used many alkiners like Citra alka to curb burning in my urine.I would eat alot of cucumbers, lettce and vegatables etc to have smooth urine. I would drink 12-14 glasses of water to keep my thick and yellowis brownish urine under control.stopped all my remidies in 2002 after moving to Canada, some 6 years before saw palmetto. Just relyied on water only.

3- used to get up 7-8 times every night due to very strong errections. urinating and drinking water to keep my urine diluted was the only remedy
Doctor thought I had prostatitis so I went through two cystoscopies ,3 years apart, but with negative results. My urologists told my prostate was normal. urologist thought might have hyperactive bladder he put me on flomax caps. flomax gave some relief but gave head aches and weakness.I always used flomax at 1/3 or 1/2 of the capsule. The other reason for taking Saw palmetto besides hairloss was my urine problem and getting up at nights. After using saw palmetto my urine became colorless, just as when you are on diuretics, burning went away and stream became very strong but with the a heavy price. Now matter how little I drink water my there is no burning in my urine and it is always like water.
Dear brisbanehomoeopath if you have more questions please let me answer them for you, I will be happy to answer.
Now my current remedy is Vit D3 4000 IU , Vit B12 , vit B6 and vit E. this gives me enough energy for 6 - 8 hours and then I go down on my energy just like diabetic people. All the time i am tired and want to sleep.
I would be happy to become your patient,if possible. where are you located? Please let me know I feel strongly you are the right person for me.
Lately I visited a homeo path and he gave me
anacardium
yohimbinum (liquid)
I did not use them as I am scared. I am on a very thin line and if I got worse Testosterone injection will be my last resort which I am avoiding like plague.[/i]

doctor thought you had prostatitis and gave you cytoscopies ??
first time i ever hear that as a diagnostic tool for prostate issues
and for a hyperactive bladder they gave you flomax…
man you are breaking medicine apart
flomax would only make you worse in this issue
plus create sex related side effects, it is known to be a very strong anti-libido drug
and also an immune disruptor
big time
people have developed issues even years post flomax use with their immune system

then you took saw palmetto
and you reckon your body has fallen apart from this
not from all the symptomatology you had prior to that and the drugs you used

how many drugs have you taken in your lifetime is a myster
plus vitamins
homeopathic ailments (usually poisons- i know i ve tried)

even in those forums people call for doctors to give you miasmatic treatments.
i wish you knew what this refers to
they think you have some sort of leprosy and they want to treat you thus…
sad
but you still don’t reckon that your prostate might have deteriorated
on top of your saw palmetto usage a known anti-androgen i couldn’t agree less
but you only look at SAW PALMETTO all the rest drug use is history for you

i ll tell you what
if i take one pill of flomax
next day i feel like having the flu
and it lasts for a few weeks
my stomach bloats
and it last for a month
i ve tried it
but still you think its saw palmetto doing this
you don’t reckon your body is a unit with myriads of chemical reactions
you only reckon one enemy, saw palmetto

i think you are just lost in space

take care

stay there and wait for serious problems to arrive
because what you have now is merely psychosomatic
i ve been through that as well
and downed a sea of pills
to get back to where i was only when i listened to logic
and not to insanity

i will send you a video of me performing to enjoy
ā€œviewers discretion advisedā€

mew
you can simply ban me or erase me
judging from the financial harm i have suffered from this forum
from all your insane findings

and the multiple insults from lunatics
i don’t think i have anything to earn from staying here

i think you have done a lot of harm as well
i traveled back and forth to europe coz of your multiple studies freaking me out and used up hundreds of pills to help me while i needed none
let alone the tests (10 grant or more)
let alone the psychological mess for years
staying in a freaking rollercoaster
next time be a doctor or ask a doctor
think and then post

but you insisted
its hormonal
now its genetics

when people get mutated
then help them out of it

stick the rules up your behinds like i use the wand
maybe this clears your brain fog

by the way im 32

hit me back when im 64
see who spend his life better
me treating my prostate and sexual health
or you waiting on gene therapy
and the rest of the misinformed gang