Propecia and dental problems

[wierdfeeling]

I am beginning to fear that I will be stuck with these symptoms for the long run. Ever since I stopped the drug, I feel very different…brain fog? My salivary glands don’t seem to be working the way they used and I basically just feel that something is wrong. Should I go back on the drug or is this the “crash”. I did not taper the drug…does this get better?

[tim1911]

@wierdfeeling

Should I go back on the drug

What in the hell?

[Number23]

I second Tim’s reply.

However, I had the same thought prior to finding this forum. In retrospect, I now realize that I had symptoms back when I was taking the drug, however the onset of these symptoms was very slow. And since my symtoms seemed to worsen without the drug, I thought that maybe I needed it to make me feel normal again. Then I read through many of the posts on this forum and quickly realized that I wasn’t going back. Compared to many people on this forum, I have somewhat minor issues. Still we’ve all already observed how the drug has disrupted our body’s balance (whether it be WITH taking the drug or WITHOUT it). I think you have to be concerned about the bigger picture now. If you go back on the drug, what pitfalls lie ahead?

I think that a wiser course of action would be to get proper blood work done to identify and thus benchmark your present condition, and then take steps to create an environment that would facilitate your body’s rehabilitation or rebalancing. Help your body to be as healthy as it can be through diet and supplements, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle. Will this work? I’m optimistically hopeful for myself.

At least you’ll be confident that you’re not inflicting further damage to your body.

Oh and FWIW, I gradually ceased taking the drug. Went to half a pill for a year or more, then slowly tapered off skipping days here and there. I still got the dry mouth and the brain fog without a “crash”.

[wierdfeeling]

Number23, very encouraging words…thank you. Yes, I thought that going back on the drug would have resolved my syptoms because I never did have any when I was on the drug. I didn’t restart the drug and will endure this hoping that it goes away in time as it has only been a couple of weeks.

[tim1911]

This problem has completely resolved for me since taking high dose vitamin c (2000-3000mg p/d)

[cantsleep]

I’m having a ton of dental problems right now. I had a cleaning/check up on April 28 2010, and everything was fine. Took fin for 15 days in mid-May. By late June I started having problems in one of my lower second molars, which eventually became inflamed and needed a root canal. The root canaled tooth hasn’t healed as of 6 weeks after the procedure(very sensitive to air and still tender to pushing and chewing), and they suspect it’s cracked at the root. Looking more and more like I’m going to have this one pulled.

A few weeks ago, I also started having problems in the lower first molar on the other side. Very similar to the first tooth I mentioned-- sensitivity to air, a small twinge on biting. Looks like another cracked tooth. This despite the fact I was wearing a dental night guard… those things protect your teeth from grinding wear, but not so much from clenching forces. I’m now wearing a rubber football guard which has a little more give to it.

Looking more and more like I"m going to lose these two teeth. This is extremely distressing, as I had exemplary dental health before all this. Will probably try to go for implants, which adds about $6000 to what I’ve spent so far($1100 for a root canal, $300 for dental exams). My dentist is making me an NTI-TSS splint, which fits onto the two front teeth and supposedly stops the clenching/grinding reaction. This astoundingly costs $600 in itself.

My thought is that the hormonal imbalance caused by propecia may have compromised the strength of my teeth. Either that or the stress of the whole situation caused me to clench/grind with greater force than before. Or maybe it’s just accumulated wear and a coincidence it all started right after taking Propecia.

[martinM]

cantlseep I have had a very similar experience with dental pain. After taking fin my dental health seemed to be failing. about 4 years ago I had 5 cavities filled, then a year later another, then another, then last year a crown I have on the rear upper molar came off. It got loose from grinding the teeth and gave me a horrible feeling all through my face and neck because the nerve was inflamed. they reglued the crown but told me the tooth next to it needed an onlay because it was cracked. I went through the processes which was a nightmare.

During this entire time I’ve had pain in my cheek from the tooth and it became increasingly more sensitive to touch and temp, but only on one side, and the nerve pain traveled all the way into my shoulder. I saw some specialist that focuses on root canals and the xrays showed nothing however the teeth were extremely sensitive to temperature.

The pain was so bad I was ready for a root canal. I did research online and discovered that the pain can travel from tooth to tooth due to grinding, so one root canal can lead to another until your whole mouth is done, which has actually happened to some people.

I tried a football mouthguard and the pain got better however it altered my bite so I stopped using it. Any mouthguard can do this as can the NTI-TSS splint. I was offered one for $300, so if you go this route you might want to shop around. But be warned the can alter your bite so that the rear teeth stop touching at all.

My dental pain has subsided a lot since I quit my job. The angle I was sitting n front of my 2 computer screens, with my right arm extended way to the right and often with a head turned to the right, was pulling my body out of alignment and the bursting point for the pressure was the weakest link, my jaw and upper left molars. I stopped grinding my teeth totally about two weeks after I changed position and cut way down on computer use. I still have a slight pain in the molar, especially if I spend too much time online, but it hasn’t got so bad since. I also never use the night guard anymore, it’s been over a year.

I believe if I would have remained at the job doing the same thing I would be about 2 root canals by now along with another damaged tooth from grinding.

My thought is that the hormonal imbalance caused by propecia may have compromised the strength of my teeth. Either that or the stress of the whole situation caused me to clench/grind with greater force than before. Or maybe it’s just accumulated wear and a coincidence it all started right after taking Propecia

I think you’re right on the first two in addition to weaker nerves that inflame easier and a compromised immune system that give teethe the propensity to be inflamed. I highly doubt this is coincidence. I’m not having any dental work done unless I’m having pain from now on.

[bostonusa2009]

I’m in for this one as well, unfortunately. I think things have improved though since I have quit the drug and begun to repair the damage.

I had a filling fall out, my gums receded and I had bone loss in the lower portion of the teeth. Another reason why we need to get the vit d level back in check.

[boston332]

Same for me. One filling, one root canal and one implant since Fin. Dunno if its coincidence or what. Definately dont think Fin helped the situation.

[cantsleep]

Martin, regarding the NTI-TSS splint, I’m aware of what you’re talking about. I believe the problem that most people develop is the front teeth no longer touching(open bite). It’s theorized this happens either because the back teeth supra-erupt from lack of contact, or because of other unknown changes made to the jaw. I am going to be extra careful to observe any changes in my bite.

Incidentally I asked my dentist about these things-- he said he’s made these splints for three years and hasn’t had a single patient report a problem. Sound familiar? However for me it’s either wear a splint or crack more teeth. Not much else I can do.

[cantsleep]

Well damn. Looks like I have another tooth going. Another tooth that was perfectly healthy before this. This makes 3 teeth cracked in about 5 months. I had zero cracked teeth in 28 years before this. I do not consider this a coincidence.

[boston332]

Had one tooth removed on Tuesday. Another one is starting to ache a bit. Hoping its coincidence and doesnt become much worse. Odd because I’ve very few dental issues pre-Fin. IF this is related I will be close to 10K in PFS related expenses and I’ve only been off it nine months.

Wonder if by next January Merck will have added dental problems to its list of potential side effects.

[Bradwaggoner]

Could be the low vitamin d a lot of us seem to have.

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/content/abstract/203/2/203

[cantsleep]

@boston332

Had one tooth removed on Tuesday. Another one is starting to ache a bit. Hoping its coincidence and doesnt become much worse. Odd because I’ve very few dental issues pre-Fin. IF this is related I will be close to 10K in PFS related expenses and I’ve only been off it nine months.

Wonder if by next January Merck will have added dental problems to its list of potential side effects.

You mentioned an implant earlier. Is this removed tooth the one you’re getting the implant on, or is this a 2nd implant?

I read that a lot of pregnant women have problems with cracking teeth… maybe from shifting hormones. It wouldn’t surprise me if we had something similar going on.

I am 99% sure that my problem is fin-related. My teeth were solid as a rock before this, and now I am afraid to chew on anything the wrong way for fear of hurting or breaking another tooth. This is scaring me because I’m already at 3 teeth ruined and I don’t know where it’s going to end.

[martinM]

To everyone using flouride in their toothpaste, in my opinion it causes no benefits to the teeth. In fact there is a lot of evidence that it does the opposite. As I posted earlier in this thread and other areas on this site I have had significant troubles with my teeth I believe due to propecia. I have had the pasty mouth feel that I associated with candida and gluten intolerance. I have had significant damage in the form of cavities and required dental work done after taking propecia that I did not have earlier in life which is not due to sweets because I never had many.

To counter my dental problems I started getting stronger fluoride toothpastes and expensive electric toothbrushes. The latest and last fluoridated toothpaste I got was crest pro health enamel shield which has extra fluoride for tooth protection. My mouth taste and pasty feel that I associated with candida initially peaked while using this toothpaste.

Since I have switched to an organic aloe-based brand and seen significant improvement in the pasty feel in the mouth, improvement in breath, whiter teeth, and my mouth feels cleaner longer.

Please watch the video below and read the research. There is much evidence that fluoride gives no health benefits but actually harms the population. The Nazi’s used fluoride both in concentration camps and in undesirable areas to make the populations either sterile or docile.

If you don’t suspect fluoride in itself of being harmful, please consider that we were already impairing our bodies’ ability to excrete toxins by taking fin. The EPA, along with everyone else, admits that high levels of fluoride are toxic while making teeth and bones brittle. It is easy to acquire high levels of fluoride by simply drinking public drinking water and using fluoride toothpaste.

It wouldn’t hurt to switch your toothpaste to a non-fluoridated aloe-based brand for a few months and see how you feel. You should also drink water that doesn’t come from the tap and hasn’t been treated with antibiotics or fluoride. Personally I believe that putting fluoride into your body is harmful and won’t be doing it anymore. I’ve seen improvement with mouth health, taste, appearance, smell, and feel since switching my toothpaste to a aloe-based brand without fluoride.

truth11.com/2009/12/01/nazi-connections-to-flouride-in-americas-drinking-water/

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRLz4a7lDVM&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]

zerohedge.com/article/government-reduce-fluoride-levels-drinking-water-because-too-much-fluoride-can-cause-health-

From zerohedge.com:

As AP notes:

[b]A scientific report five years ago said that people who consume a lifetime of too much fluoride — an amount over EPA’s limit of 4 milligrams — can lead to crippling bone abnormalities and brittleness.

That and other research issued Friday by the EPA about health effects of fluoride are sure to re-energize groups that still oppose adding it to water supplies.

---

In March, 2006, the National Academy of Sciences released a report recommending that the EPA lower its maximum standard for fluoride in drinking water to below 4 milligrams. The report warned severe fluorosis could occur at 2 milligrams. Also, a majority of the report’s authors said a lifetime of drinking water with fluoride at 4 milligrams or higher could raise the risk of broken bones.

Late last year, lawyers for the Fluoride Action Network, Beyond Pesticides, and Environmental Working Group threatened legal action if the EPA did not lower its ceiling on fluoride.
In Europe, fluoride is rarely added to water supplies. In Britain, only about 10 percent of the population has fluoridated water. It’s been a controversial issue there, with critics arguing people shouldn’t be forced to have “medical treatment” forced on them.
Some scientists also have found that fluoride can cause damage to children’s liver and kidneys, and to other parts of the body as well.[/b]

Here is the 2006 National Academy of Science report discussed above. The report reviews scientific studies which find that fluoride affects intelligence.

Indeed, studies from around the world have continued to find that exposure to fluoride - especially in the very young - lowers IQ. See this and this. The same is true for rats exposed to fluoride. See this and this. And see the studies listed here.

Dr. Vyvyan Howard - a PhD fetal pathologist, who is a professor of developmental toxico-pathology at the University of Liverpool and University of Ulster, president of the International Society of Doctors for the Environment and former president of the Royal Microscopical Society and the International Society for Stereology, and general editor of the Journal of Microscopy - said in a 2008 Canadian television interview (short, worthwhile video at the link) that studies done in several countries show that children’s IQ are likely to be lower in high natural water fluoride areas.

He said that these studies are plausible because fluoride is known to affect the thyroid hormone which affects intelligence and fluoride is also a known neurotoxicant. Such studies have not been conducted in countries that artificially fluoridate the water such as the US, UK and Canada, but should be, he said.

And as the International Business Times noted last month on the newest Chinese study on fluoride:

Exposure to fluoride may lower children’s intelligence, says a study published in Environmental Health Perspectives, a publication of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. Fluoride is added to 70 percent of U.S. public drinking water supplies.

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About 28 percent of the children in the low-fluoride area scored as bright, normal or higher intelligence compared to only 8 percent in the “high” fluoride area of Wamaio.

In the high-fluoride city, 15 percent had scores indicating mental retardation and only 6 percent in the low-fluoride city. The authors of the study eliminated both lead exposure and iodine deficiency as possible causes for the lowered IQs.
One scientist - Jennifer Luke - alleged in a 2001 scientific article that fluoride accumulates in the brain (specifically, in the structure of the pineal gland) more than it accumulates in our bones. In other words, she implies that fluoride may accumulate more in the brain than in the teeth, doing more harm than good (here’s Luke’s 1997 PhD dissertation on the topic.)

The 2006 National Academy of Sciences report corroborates some of Luke’s allegations:

As with other calcifying tissues, the pineal gland can accumulate fluoride (Luke 1997, 2001). Fluoride has been shown to be present in the pineal glands of older people (14-875 mg of fluoride per kg of gland in persons aged 72-100 years), with the fluoride concentrations being positively related to the calcium concentrations in the pineal gland, but not to the bone fluoride, suggesting that pineal fluoride is not necessarily a function of cumulative fluoride exposure of the individual (Luke 1997, 2001). Fluoride has not been measured in the pineal glands of children or young adults, nor has there been any investigation of the relationship between pineal fluoride concentrations and either recent or cumulative fluoride intakes.
Donald Miller - cardiac surgeon and Professor of Surgery at the University of Washington - alleges:

Studies show that the rates of bone cancer are substantially higher in fluoridated areas, particularly in boys. [See this.] Other cancers, of the head and neck, GI tract, pancreas, and lungs, have a 10 percent higher incidence. Fluoride affects the thyroid gland and causes hypothyroidism, which is also an increasingly frequent disorder in the US. Other studies show that high levels of fluoride in drinking water are associated with birth defects and early infant mortality.

---

Studies show that the rates of bone cancer are substantially higher in fluoridated areas, particularly in boys. Other cancers, of the head and neck, GI tract, pancreas, and lungs, have a 10 percent higher incidence. Fluoride affects the thyroid gland and causes hypothyroidism, which is also an increasingly frequent disorder in the US. Other studies show that high levels of fluoride in drinking water are associated with birth defects and early infant mortality.

Fluoride also damages the brain, both directly and indirectly. Rats given fluoridated water at a dose of 4 ppm develop symptoms resembling attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder. High concentrations of fluoride accumulate in the pineal gland, which produces serotonin and melatonin. Young girls who drink fluoridated water reach puberty six months earlier than those who drink unfluoridated water, which is thought to be a result of reduced melatonin production. People with Alzheimer’s disease have high levels of aluminum in their brains. Fluoride combines with aluminum in drinking water and takes it through the blood-brain barrier into the brain. Dr. Russell Blaylock, MD, a neurosurgeon, spells out in chilling detail the danger fluoride poses to one’s brain and health in general in his book Health and Nutrition Secrets that can Save Your Life (2002).

And see PhD chemist Joel Kauffman’s review of fluoride in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons.

Indeed, the whole fluoride fad might have been started for reasons a tad different from concern about cavities. As I wrote last August:

The government allegedly ordered Manhattan Project scientists to whitewash the toxicity of flouride (flouride is a byproduct in the production of weapons-grade plutonium and uranium). As Project Censored noted in 1999:
Recently declassified government documents have shed new light on the decades-old debate over the fluoridation of drinking water, and have added to a growing body of scientific evidence concerning the health effects of fluoride. Much of the original evidence about fluoride, which suggested it was safe for human consumption in low doses, was actually generated by “Manhattan Project” scientists in the 1940s. As it turns out, these officials were ordered by government powers to provide information that would be “useful in litigation” and that would obfuscate its improper handling and disposal. The once top-secret documents, say the authors, reveal that vast quantities of fluoride, one of the most toxic substances known, were required for the production of weapons-grade plutonium and uranium. As a result, fluoride soon became the leading health hazard to bomb program workers and surrounding communities.

Studies commissioned after chemical mishaps by the medical division of the “Manhattan Project” document highly controversial findings. For instance, toxic accidents in the vicinity of fluoride-producing facilities like the one near Lower Penns Neck, New Jersey, left crops poisoned or blighted, and humans and livestock sick. Symptoms noted in the findings included extreme joint stiffness, uncontrollable vomiting and diarrhea, severe headaches, and death. These and other facts from the secret documents directly contradict the findings concurrently published in scientific journals which praised the positive effects of fluoride.

Regional environmental fluoride releases in the northeast United States also resulted in several legal suits against the government by farmers after the end of World War II, according to Griffiths and Bryson. Military and public health officials feared legal victories would snowball, opening the door to further suits which might have kept the bomb program from continuing to use fluoride. With the Cold War underway, the New Jersey lawsuits proved to be a roadblock to America’s already full-scale production of atomic weapons. Officials were subsequently ordered to protect the interests of the government.
After the war, … the dissemination of misinformation continued.
Note: While the U.S. is reducing fluoride levels in water, some have proposed adding it to salt and to milk. For example, as the International Dental Journal reported in 2005:

Alternatives to automatic fluoridation by means of water fluoridation are salt fluoridation [and] milk fluoridation … and the WHO Oral Health Programme is currently undertaking evaluation of demonstration projects in several countries.

[martinM]

Here’s another doctor talking about fluoride’s toxic effect in the body and how much we consume from toothpaste and drinking tap water in the USA. 5 min.

Exercpt: There’s a warning to call the poison control center for swallowing the fluoride contained in a pea sized amount of toothpaste. This is the same amount of fluoride in 8 oz of tap water.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fk5wkcd_Ik&feature=related[/youtube]

[bluecloud87]

Any guys that are having bad dental problems since Finasteride should get ther Vitamin D levels checked. Also, most serious hormone issues can create worse dental health.

This is a great read for anyone with dental problems in general:

longecity.org/forum/topic/43688-can-i-heal-my-teeth/page__p__445850#entry445850

wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/reversing-tooth-decay.html

[correiovip]

Hi all,
I just came back from the dentist. I had to treat the sixth root canal tooth since i took propecia. Before propecia i had never had a cavity! A few observations from him:

• i had to take four doses of anesthesia, which is not very common. I think it could relate to the fact i feel my nervous system is often over acting
• Inflammation. “You get a lot of inflammation on your teeth”. Tell me about it. It s been years i am saying there is something wrong with my inflammatory response now, but doctors dont believe me.
• He pointed out to my jaws, inside my mouth, where i seem to jave bone loss, or bone change, i dont know how to call it. and asked “Did you have these before? They seem funny for your age.”
• He pointed out how much plaque i am getting now (Observation: i don t eat sugar, sodas, coffee, processed foods). How can i be getting so much plaque so fast? I brush regularly. I remember someone posted about having less saliva. Could it be the problem?

[martinM]

@correiovip

• i had to take four doses of anesthesia, which is not very common. I think it could relate to the fact i feel my nervous system is often over acting

Same here. One time I needed 6 doses.

@correiovip

• Inflammation. “You get a lot of inflammation on your teeth”. Tell me about it. It s been years i am saying there is something wrong with my inflammatory response now, but doctors dont believe me.

Same here. The nerves over react. Anti-Inflamitories like ibuprofen have a very strong effect on me.

@correiovip

• He pointed out to my jaws, inside my mouth, where i seem to jave bone loss, or bone change, i dont know how to call it. and asked “Did you have these before? They seem funny for your age.”

Same here. I have something in my jaw that will only deteriorate more with age, a lack of bone.

@correiovip

• He pointed out how much plaque i am getting now (Observation: i don t eat sugar, sodas, coffee, processed foods). How can i be getting so much plaque so fast? I brush regularly. I remember someone posted about having less saliva. Could it be the problem?

Less saliva here too. The plaque for me builds up quickly too. It stopped once I stopped using a fluoride toothpaste. See my post above about using the aloe based brand without fluoride. This made the most difference out of all of the things I’ve done. I used to get immediate plaque build up in the front teeth which were visible 1 week after being cleaned. I got my teeth cleaned 14 months ago and had this buildup almost immediately. The plaque went away after 1 month of brushing with the aloe based brand.

[bluecloud87]

Fucking hell, these dental problems scare me.

Balding > Impotent > Bad teeth

Instead of coping with just the balding, this drug has absolutely ruined the rest of us. I haven’t been to the dentist in a while but I really look after my teeth now.

• Brush with good toothpaste e.g. (Crest Pro) or maybe a very good non fluoride paste
• Use xylitol
• Floss every day or so, I bought a water flosser

And most importantly, look after your body from within and think about your teeth - I barely consume sugar, or caffeine, only when I am getting drunk.

Funny you mentioned anaesthetic’s because I like to take Ketamine sometimes with friends and I have no trouble getting tranquilised