SP, yeah I am reading some very incredible stuff regarding Deprenyl (selegeline) lots of positive stuff regarding libido and erections etc. balances out neurotransmitters which is what I believe to be 100% the problem. I am very close to trying my first treatment program of Deprenyl myself
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Fina if you decide to try this keep us posted. Through trial and experimination is the only way we will conquer this thing.
I will, also seeing a lot of positive stuff with selegiline taken with 5 htp, perhaps a synergetic combination
what about following what this guy did and combining it with progesterone? all three at the same time?
Well you know my thoughts on 5htp I believe serotonin plays a big role in this especially in the cognitive and phycological symptoms.
@dgreene, perhaps progesterone or progenalone…but for some reason I feel if the neurotransmitters are fixed or balanced back, hormones will be synthesized properly. IMO, it’s not the levels of hormones that’s the problem but the synthesis which points even more towards neurosteroid depletion / imbalance
Hi guys,
Sorry haven’t checked this thread for a bit.
Absolutely wrapped that this routine/ variations of it have helped.
In response to a comment stating that this could be a natural recovery- i do have to concede that. Though if you look at the precedents for natural recoveries from finasteride, they typically hover around the 3-7 year mark.
Minor objections aside, i did suffer from a broad range of side effects- even before discontinuing finasteride… and was taking it on and off for 6 years so- we can assume that it well and truely affected my physiology. Or pehaps i just have superhuman genetics 
- who really knows.
I also noticed that 5-HTP was mentioned- and suggested to have a synergistic effect with selegiline. I definitely cannot rule this out- though do not currently supplement it, my diet is EXTREMELY rich in spinich, eggs, seaweed and seafood- all rich in tryptophan i believe- so perhaps this is the true mechanism behind my luck. LOL
That said, i agree with the notion that neuro-steriods/transmitters are the key players in our condition. We’ve all done all the research and leg-work to draw our own conclusions via the countless mechanisms suggested. To this day, i am anywhere from 85-95% recovered. Though its kind hard to remember EXACTLY what i was like back in the day- or perhaps its accumulated age that accounts for that extra 5-15%. Regardless- progesterone DID play a pivotal role in this- as i am now well and truely off selegiline, (about a month now) and am continuing to apply progesterone every other day. Wish i could provide the mechanism how- but i simply can’t. As said earlier- trial and error is our only way around this whilst the scientific community foddles a root cause-(all due respect to the hardwork MEW and the pioneers of the forum have put in of course).
Your all familiar with the reoccuring rebound affect we’re seeing after we cycle a treatment? Well i no longer get that. I’ve NEVER in the past few months dropped back to 10-30 or 50% recovery- my VAST improvement in angrogen activity, cognitive function, mood ETC remains constant- and continues to improve. Something has been reset… and dare i say, my body’s homostasis has shifted back to somewhere around where it used to be- hormonal AND neuro-steriod wise.
Steadfast and continued use of progesterone was necessary - most only give it a go for a few weeks and expect instantaneous results and resolution. Those with a bit of patience and understanding that resolving this takes time- are more likely to succeed i think.
Sorry if i come across as a precher- not my intention- its just many people have PM me and said they’ve tried progesterone and selegiline for a few weeks or a month - and it didn’t work 
… ‘Well no shit sherlock’ - no physiological OR psychological damage this extensive can realistically be corrected “in a couple of weeks”.
Oh and finally- i do anerobic training 3-5 times a week, eat really well (with junk every once and while ofcourse, I still drink once a week too btw)- AND keep a positive mind set 24/7.
Any other questions or whatever please feel free guys- I know where you guys are- and more or less what you’ve been through… so i’m happy to advise of any specifics or whatever if you need them.
Be a sceptic for the sake of being one, and throw all you studies to the contray of my theory all you like if you want. At the end of the day, ALL the studies in the world WILL NEVER fully understand the complex interelationship of our ridiculously vast physiology…
OR you could give this/or a variation of this a proper go. Don’t think much of you have much to loose at this point LOL
Best of luck guys
Im willing to give your protocol a go. I too am partial to subscribe to the neurosteroids theory - it certainly makes the most sense in terms of mood etc.
Only thing that puts me off is donni’s comment on http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4325&start=20&hilit=Deprenyl#p61636 however he wasnt taking progresterone
Can I ask how you are mentally now compared to what you were when you crashed and the months thats followed
How long were you on Deprenyl for?
Thanks
A
I don’t know if our brain is the only problem.
I used SP for about six months. Within first few weeks I started to have a lot of fatigue and brain fog but no sexual problems at all.My sexual problem started in sixth month. First premature ejaculation and then shrinkage and then suddenly, maybe took only one or two weeks. One day I got up with a piece of rubber.I remember very clearly just like yesterday, I was constantly searching for relationship between saw palmetto and fatigue but could not find one at that time. I never searched for sexual sides that time.
you can easily group PFS patients in three groups.
1-Have physical issues, mainly fatigue, brain fog etc but no sexual sides. Few years back I read posts of a 55 years old guy who’s Total T was 800 and was complaining about fatigue only. I sent him many PMs to stop his SP use.
2-Have sexual sides only. They don’t have any other sides. Just sexual sides.
3-people with physical and sexual sides who have low Testosterone and have both fatigue,brain fog and sexual sides.
My point here is for some of us, our testicles have got damaged besides damage to other parts of our body. Maybe this is the reason many of us when take clomid or HCG produce Estrogen only.No or little Testosterone. Their leydig cells are gone or are suppressed.
I will be interested to see your expreince with selegline.
Hi light at the end,
Did Progesterone gave you any increase in testicle size ?
Congratulations on your near complete recovery. It is encouraging to me.
I see that you listed weight gain as a side effect of finasteride. I’d like to know more about your weight if you have had improvement in that area. Not because weight gain is more important to me. But because weight is relatively more objective to gauge improvement so I’d like to know more about it.
I’m interested in what you weighed before you started finasteride, what you weighed after you experienced the weight gain, and what you weighed after your partial recovery. Along with what your diet, exercise, and age were during those periods.
"Though if you look at the precedents for natural recoveries from finasteride, they typically hover around the 3-7 year mark. "
I have to completely disagree with you on this. I have seen way more people recover within 2 years of getting off the drug then people who recovered at 3-7 years.
Life was good:
selegiline may indeed bring about side effects after discontinuation im afraid. I doubt you can be sure just how much MOA-B will rebound… im guessing this will be mechanism. Though the literature that is avaliable doesn’t make many references to this being common- so i suppose it comes down to the individual.
If your concerned about altering MOA-B you could always opt for a different method and supplement velvet bean? Assuming ofcourse it is an increase in avaliable dopamine we’re aiming for- i can’t be sure unfortunately.
But i will say this, in all honesty and confidence; Mentally- i am FULLY recovered. I’m currently working full time- uni part time, have a healthy baby boy on the way and a very active/happy social life. When i first came off finasteride- I had severe depression, panic episodes (both of which i’ve never had prior), consistant brain fog, 10% motivation to do anything- the list goes on. Haven’t seen any sign of any of them for a while now
SPstriken:
I think in this instance you need to give credit to physiology 101: which dictates that the Brain ultimately regulates the body- and not the other way round. Alterations in neuro-chemistry affects the balance and feed-back loops of the thyroid, pituitary, the hypothalamus etc- All of these are responsible for your sense of ‘normality’ that we all strive to attain again. But then again- i suppose its all opinion at this stage LOL
Mark 2012:
Hi Mark,
Yes they are definitely bigger and fuller than they were after my first crash. (Its freken embarrasing how small they were). That said, i don’t what they would be like had i never taken the drug- however the increase in volume since my protocol is significant- though after sex they do tend to loose a bit- then recover the next day (can’t say if this is normal but logic would suggest it so)
MindsEye;
Thanks mate- believe me when i say i’m so gratefull i don’t have to go through the bull-S*hit- life is hard enough.
Ok so before i started finasteride- i couldn’t tell you. Around the 85-90kg Mark if i was to take a guess. 2-3 months post finasteride i went up to 108kg. I know sit at 93kg. Physical activity was moderate before- gym 2 times a week (anaerobic), diet was quite poor, regular fast food- typical 21year old- twice a week drinking.
During finasteride/ Just after: Gym 2-4 times a week (more focus on aerobic routines)- Diet-relatively clean - drinking once a week.
After finasteride- Gym- 3-4 times a week-(heavy focus on anaerobic routines) diet very clean, limited carbs, 5 servings of veggies everyday- (still drinking once a week lol)
sorry if its not as comprehensive as you’d like- but i fugure you’d ask for more specifics if need be.
FJ929:
Hi Mate,
No doubt in my mind there are many things guys on this forum would disagree with me on, though we can only really bring what we know to the table. Most who i’ve read up on or have spoken to have had long term exposure to finasteride- ie: greater than 2 years, and long term recovery periods (if at all).
Cheers guys
If anyone has any question about LATE’s protocol or my addition to it, please ask here. Please do not PM me.
Yeah, basically how are you feeling Second Amendment? Do you feel this is moving you forward in balancing out neurotransmitters / hormones?
Yes. I believe I have the right tools; I just need to work on proper dosing.
Very interesting stuff…
Really appreciate these updates light at the end, glad you’re doing so well.
Thanks,
Hi Guys,
thought i’d report something which may be rather graphic to some but to others it represents a normalisation of androgenicity.
- I happy to say that orgasms are now 100% INTENSE again- teen days even. That dull BS excuse for one most of us have been privy to is definitely gone.
-
this may seem graphic, but i’m confident we are all adults with a goal, thus any breaches in social etiquette will be forgiven*
EVERY occasion, be it sex, whacking the bird, or a blowey recently - has resulted in PRESSURISED ejaculate ie: i’ve got distance again- i’m talking with very decent force.
Now that was ancient history- have been used to a relative “leak” for years- whilst the girl i’m seeing won’t entirely share my enthusiasm- due to some recent poor “aim” on my part LOL, i think this symbolises what it is to function like a man again.
I have actually STOPPED taking progesterone, after a gradual reduction in use. Hoping that its benefits will remain. No rebound effect yet to speak of- will keep everyone posted.
Have had a quick look at some of the recent support of the “allopregnanolone/ neuro-steriods/GABA etc” theory… glad to see the relative science behind this is getting its due attention. Heres hoping that a concrete and stable recovery protocol can be synthesised soon enough- possibly off the mechanisms involved in my case- whatever they may be.
All the best again guys.
whooooooa … if you dont mind, what EXACTLY were you taking to make you feel like this?
im happy for you man, that is great that you feel good
In what physical, mental and sexual areas have you improved from before and by how much (maybe using a scale of 1-10)?
What supplements and pharma products are you using, and why?
How long did it take for you to notice improvements?