Pre-Fin tests. Hypogonadal?

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

I did some hormone tests, cause I was thinking of taking Propecia.

And it turned out like this:
LH 5.9 UI/L (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH 4.3 UI/L (1.4 - 18.1)
Estradiol 75.4 pmol/L (43 - 151)
Progesterone 2.80 nmol/L (0.89 - 3.88)
Prolactin 11.5 ug/L (2.1 - 17.7)
Androstenedione 1.9 nmol/L (2.4 - 12.6)
SHBG 18.5 nmol/L (in men 13 - 71)
Testosterone 9.17 nmol/L (8.40 - 28.7)
Free Testosterone 17.8 pmol/L (19.08 - 121.45)
DHT 668 nmol/L (in men 250 - 990)
TSH 4.31 mUI/L (0.35 - 5.50)
Adiol-G 10.1 ng/mL (in men 1.0 - 23.6)

Although this is disappointing, it doesn’t surprise me much, cause I’ve been having the following symptoms for about 1 year:

  • Decreased libido (I hardly find myself thinking about sex, and can only have sex like once every 2/3 days)
  • ED (I’ve taken ED drugs already)
  • Fatigue.
  • I wake up during the night with my arm or hand completely numb. (dunno if this is related but it’s damn weird)

Well, this is the shit. So now what? Am I hypogonodal?
It’s amazing that with this amount of free testosterone I’m still sometimes able to engage sex every night. (althougth with not much pleasure).

What’s the deal with the Androstenedione?
Prolactin is a bit high too, no? Could I be hypothyroid?
All these symptoms have been getting worse over time as I said, for at least the last year.

So now what should I do?
I’m in Europe and I’ll try to find a good endo but it’s gonna be tough.
Also what are your recommendations about: Clomid, Nolvadex, Hcg, tribulus, TRT, cabergoline…

Ahhh I’ve read that hypogonadal men don’t go bald. So what’s the deal with me?
Thanks for all the possible help and advices.

#2

But I dn’t understand,did u use propecia?

a good doc told me to be a very good one and knows about propecia sideeffects, is pecoz paolo in Milan Italy.

#3

I didn’t use Propecia. But if I’m still eligle for help from this forum, I appreciate :slight_smile:

#4

Dude, you are so lucky that you got those blood tests done now. And now, DON’T EVER TAKE PROPECIA. What ever your prob is it will most likely be fixed easier than ours. Man you are lucky. Just don’t under estimate this. Yeah, it might suck, and you feel like crap, but it could be a number of things. I’m not a doctor so I can’t go into more detail, but Ijust wanted to make you understand that you are LUCKY to have found this forum now, and not later.

Try different things like we are before you start taking drugs. Do you drink or party too much, do you eat like shit, do you get enough exercise and sleep? All of these things can have HUGE impact on male hormones. If you anwered negatively to any of those, CHANGE. Start lifting, running, taking better care of yourself. No one else is going to. Beleive me. Try natural herbal supplements.

Don’t stress it. You could be in our shoes.

#5

oh well, one symptom of low T is anxiety.

I don’t really know where to start, cause my doctor probably will tell me to start TRT. should I?
Thanks.

#6

Did you not just read my post??

#7

I did read, but I’ve tried all that.
I do gym, I eat good, I don’t smoke or drink.

Regarding natural herbal supplements, what do u advice for my case?

#8

Your TSH is pretty high and could be considered sublinical hypothyroid per:

thyroid.about.com/cs/testsforthyroid/a/aace.htm
thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyroid … reated.htm

This may be influencing your somewhat mid range Prolactin, per propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1093

If the TSH was treated, perhaps the Prolactin would drop and Andro-Testosterone levels rise.

Otherwise…

As for your low Androstenedione, Total and Free T… per these pathways:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=518

You may want to get more bloodwork for:

  • ACTH
  • Cortisol
  • Cholesterol
  • DHEA
  • DHEA-S
  • 17-Hydroxyprogesterone (17OH-Progesterone)
  • 17-Hydroxypregnenolone (17-OH-pregnenolone)
  • Pregnenolone
  • Androstanediol

… to see if there is an issue higher up the pathway, before Androstenedione that may be causing issues.

I would recommend you post your questions on forum at musclechatroom.com , where Dr John Crisler himself may be able to give feedback.

#9

Thank you very much Mew for pointing me in the right direction.

You didn’t include Free T3 and Free T4 in the blood tests for checking for hypothyroidism. Why not?

I’ve read that hypothyroidism causes hair loss. I don’t know if it does so by increasing DHT levels, or in another way (I did read that thyroid related hair loss is general thinning). Do u know something about this?
Anyway, I think my DHT levels is kinda high for someone with such low Testosterone. Any ideas why it’s converting so much of my little Testosterone?

If the thyroid is not the problem, than I’m afraid the doctor will put me on TRT. I’m just 23, and I’d like to have children in the future.
What do u think of trying to boost T, by lowering prolactin with Cabergoline, or using supplements like Maca or Tongkat Ali or Tribulus?

The blood tests you suggested are to try to find why Androstenedione is so low? Isn’t it just cause T is also low? I’m going to visit an endo for the first time, so I don’t know how should I convince him it’s important to test all that stuff.

Damn. i’m sorry to ask so many questions that maybe nobody can answer, but I’m just trying my best to understand how to fix me.

#10

I forgot, those would be great to have as well.

Have heard hairloss is a possible side effect of both hyper and hypothyroidism. Do some googling.

No idea. Extremely active 5AR enzymes? I’m not a doc so can’t say.

Rather than just blindly putting you on TRT, they should be investigating the reasons as to WHY you have the levels you do, so the proper diagnosis and treatment can be given.

If I were in your shoes I would insist on this aspect – not just accepting the fact the doc’s throw their hands up in the air and couldn’t be bothered to find the reasons for your issues.

Before taking TRT there are other treatments that can be tried to boost endogeneous T production: Tamoxifen, Clomiphene Citrate, hCG. You can print the studies about Clomid and hCG from this section to bring with to prove your point if need be:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5

First I’d try and get Thyroid under control, which may lower Prolactin on its own. If Thyroid is fixed and Prolactin still a problem, try Cabergoline or Bromocriptine.

From there re-evaluate T levels etc and assess next steps.

Yes, my thinking was testing for various precurors to Androstenedione production may shed light as to why it, and thus T, is low.

Print off some hormonal pathway diagrams that show how everything is interconnected and say you want to get tested for precursors of your low hormones, to see where the problem might lie? Just an idea.

Again you would probably get much more help at the www.musclechatroom.com forum as Dr John might be able to offer his own insights directly.

Good luck.

#11

I have received the results of my 2nd blood exam, and would like to
share these results with you and compare them to the 1st exam I did 2
months ago.

[Size=4]2nd blood exams (December)[/size]
LH 4.9 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)
FSH 5.3 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)
Estradiol 31.52 pmol/L (28.00 - 156.00)
Progesterone 0.96 nmol/L (0.70 - 4.30)
Prolactin 15.06 ng/mL (4.60 - 21.40)
Androstenedione 1.86 ng/mL (2.4 - 12.6)
SHBG 25.5 nmol/L (in men 13-71)
Total Testosterone 12.61 nmol/L (9.90 - 27.80)
TSH 3.02 uIU/mL (0.27 - 4.20)
Free T3 3.65 pg/mL (2.00 - 4.40)
Free T4 1.49 ng/dL (0.93 - 1.70)
DHEAS 6.34 umol/L (1.50 - 10.70)
Cortisol 170.5 nmol/L (taken at 8 am, range is: 171.0 - 536)

[Size=4]Explanation[/size]

  • The different ranges are because the tests were taken in different
    labs (also different countries).
    My testosterone is very low indeed, but I think my LH and FSH
    production isn’t bad, so after the 1st blood test I’ve been looking
    into other possible causes.
    At first I thought I could be hypothyroidism, but Free T3 and Free T4
    came back within range.
    But at this time, Cortisol test was asked for, and came back below
    range. My doctor didn’t pay much attention because it touches borderline.
    So I did some reasearch and it turns out I might be suffering from
    Adrenal Insufficiency.
My adrenal glands are exhausted and are not putting out enough

Cortisol. Therefore, my body is not producing enough Androstenedione,
per this pathway:
http://www.drlam.com/pictures/adrenal_pathway.gif
With my level of Androstenedione, no wonder I have low Testosterone
and low Estradiol.

A lack in cortisol levels explains an underactive thyroid (my TSH is

too high), low Testosterone levels due to low Androstenedione, and a
host of many symptoms that I have (in the last year i’ve had a
recurring infection, many alergies and seborrheic dermatitis episodes.)
Since I’ve read Cortisol should be the priority in treating hormones,
I’m hoping that by increasing Cortisol, the other hormones will fall
into place, including the low Testosterone.
(Note: It’s also worth noticing that my level of Estradiol has fallen
to half since the 1st blood test, and my Progesterone has fallen to
1/3. My Prolactin has risen 5 points, approaching the top level of the
interval.)

I'd value your opinions about all this.
#12

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